sign in • sign up
web   discussions   tasks   blogs   photos

Constitution 101....clarfifying the "General Welfare" clause  email this discussion to a friend?

myLot reputation of 83/100. xfahctor (7620)   ranked 42 out of 3,985 in politics 3 years ago

Part II of my per diem constitutional clarification series.
I thought with the healthcare debate raging, and the use of the "general welfare clause" to promote the idea, now would be a good time for some clarification. How ever, let this not be construed as a "healthcare" debate thread, such a debate is beyond the scope of this thread. This is more to clarify what the writers of the constitution intended in general and not at all specific to any one act or policy by government. This has been used to enact and justify all manner of government action and next to the "interstate commerce" clause, is probably the most abused and misinterpreted of constitutional language.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
~ U.S. Constitution, Preamble
It should be understood that the framers DID NOt intend this to mean everything that benefits the people. It was meant ONLY with in the enumerated powers of government. It really isn't too difficult to understand as the limits to this clause are the very same, self contained limits with in the constitution and the framers wrote this with the assumption of applying the clause with thse limits. The term "General Welfare" is a term describing public good, not individual welfare.
This is supported not only by the philosophies of governence held by the founders, but by their writings. I give you three quotes from Maddison....

"With respect to the two words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators."

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare,
and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare,
they may take the care of religion into their own hands;
they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish
and pay them out of their public treasury;
they may take into their own hands the education of children,
establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union;
they may assume the provision of the poor;
they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads;
in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation
down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power
of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for,
it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature
of the limited Government established by the people of America."

"Money cannot be applied to the General Welfare, otherwise than by an application of it to some particular measure conducive to the General Welfare. Whenever, therefore, money has been raised by the General Authority, and is to be applied to a particular measure, a question arises whether the particular measure be within the enumerated authorities vested in Congress. If it be, the money requisite for it may be applied to it; if it be not, no such application can be made."

~ James Madison

Now, before any of you pull Jefferson out of your pocket to counter this, he also held this same interpretation...
"To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it."

"They are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please... Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given them. It was intended to lace them up straitly within the enumerated powers and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect."

~Thomas Jefferson

Again I will assert, the constitution is not rocket science and does not require a law degree to read and understand. One need only look at the other writings and speakings of the people who wrote it and an understanding of the philosophies of of governence they held.




 

politics
sponsors
jefferson high school
Pass our free online test and receive your graduation package.
JeffersonHighSchoolOnline.com

Senior Day Care Free
We provide care for seniors daily. Service is Free for qualify seniors
http://www.adult-day-care.org/

in healthcare jobs in
Search local and national job listings. Apply Now, Start Tomorrow.
www.JobsOnline.net

User has not selected a best response.
tags:  constitution, general welfare, general wwelfare, healthcare, jefferson
 
1. myLot reputation of 91/100. flowerchilde (8060)   ranked 53 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

I think the word "limits" is the most important word when it comes to government.

jefferson high school Pass our free online test and receive your graduation package.  JeffersonHighSchoolOnline.com
 
2. myLot reputation of 83/100. lilwonders456 (3526)   ranked 34 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

That pretty well spells it out clearly. Now try getting washington to follow it.
That is where the problem lies.

Senior Day Care Free We provide care for seniors daily. Service is Free for qualify seniors  http://www.adult-day-care.org/
 
3. myLot reputation of 86/100. Kowgirl (2496)   ranked 548 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

Yes, but from what has been happening for years now The Constitution as we know it has been ignored and even ridiculed as being "just a piece of paper". The words no longer stand up to what "we the people" think is best for all of us but for the politicians want for(from)us. It was a great standard of rules to go by but those rules have been tossed aside and each president has made up new ones to fit his agenda. Even Robin Hood was considered a crook because he stole from the rich to give to the poor but everyone looked at him as a hero, except from those whom he stole from.

in healthcare jobs in Search local and national job listings. Apply Now, Start Tomorrow.  www.JobsOnline.net
 
4. myLot reputation of 78/100. debrakcarey (2673)   ranked 137 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

This post contains content of a mature nature. You must be Signed in or Registered to have the option to view this content.

Earn Online Degree Faster Earn your College Degree Online Fast. Financial Aid Option. Enroll Now  UniversityCollegeSearch.info
 
5. myLot reputation of 58/100. bestboy19 (2454)   ranked 628 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

The treasury door has been opened and a precedent set. It's going to be hard to get it back in and the door closed and locked. I would love to see it happen, but I'm not holding my breath.

In Home Care Find Top Rated In Home Nurses. Get The Best Care At The Best Price.  atyoursidehomecare.com
 
6. myLot reputation of 49/100. N4life (371)   ranked 437 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

I don't think men such as Jefferson would mind Constitutional reformation..of course, jut what I think. Jefferson was big on both revolution and as many "fiscal conservatives" like to point out, not binding future generations.


myLot reputation of 83/100. xfahctor (7620)   ranked 42 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

Constitutional reform is one thing. The framers even put provisions in the constitution for reform should it need such action. But, they also made it a long difficult process and one involving a concensus of the states. They did so to prevent it from being added to for any old reason or in half arsed fashion.
Again though, constitutional reform is one thing, ignoring and circumventing it is a whole other ball game and that is something that none of them would have stood for.


myLot reputation of 49/100. N4life (371)   ranked 437 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

I can accept that. Delving into Jefferson's statement in your original thread, concerning taking from those who have earned it through skill in their industry and redistributing it is certainly not Costitutional. My issue is that many in banking and other industries earned their money through no skill and most of the richest...yes most, through illegal means. Even if they broke no laws none of these means were the result of a free market to begin with but a result of favorable govt intervention. This is the drive behind wanting to tax the wealthy more and wanting CEO pay caps etc. Some want a return to the days when innovation, skill, and hard work pay the most.

Hiring: $5000 Month Job Get Paid To Be A Mystery Shopper. Accepting Immediate Applicants.  MysteryShopAtHome.com
 
7. myLot reputation of 73/100. bobmnu (4815)   ranked 222 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

The preamble is just that a general statement or goal of government. It should be the goal of the government to promote the general welfare of the people IF IT IS DONE WITH IN THE FRAME WORK OF THE CONSTITUTION.

Healthcare Jobs Find healthcare job services Search our comprehensive directory  www.business.com
 
8. myLot reputation of 58/100. Ima_C_Suvaya (275)   ranked 290 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

We elect presidents who overstep their authority and in some cases don't even know what the definition of "is" is, then let these same idiots nominate the supreme court justices who are supposed to interpret the Constition. The whole idea of 3 independent and equal branches of gov't providing checks and balances is an illusion. We have a president who is willing to run over the Constitution, we have a congress willing to look the other way, and we have a supreme court willing to call black "white" and unconstitutional "constitutional". I can just imagine what evil they will spawn for the 'general welfare'.

5 Foods to never eat Cut down a bit of stomach fat every day by never eating these 5 foods  Truthaboutabs.com
 
9. myLot reputation of 69/100. miamilady (2490)   ranked 303 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago



"Again I will assert, the constitution is not rocket science and does not require a law degree to read and understand. One need only look at the other writings and speakings of the people who wrote it and an understanding of the philosophies of of governence they held."

hmmm

I still say a lot is left up to interpretation...
I'm not the type to spend hours looking up facts to prove my point, but I think it would be a safe bet to consider that even our founding fathers may have intended things differently from eachother at times and interpreted things differently from each other.

This isn't to say that our founding fathers weren't wise men...but even in a room full of the smartest and wisest men (or women) you will have misunderstandings and communication challenges.

That being said. Thank you for taking the time to post this discussion. I am going to have to go dig up "part 1" now.

I do find your posts interesting and educational.
I try to learn even from those I don't agree with.
Not saying I don't agree...Just not saying I do. :-)

Wholesale Marine Supplies Sunbrella, Strataglass, Nautolex, YKK Zippers  www.1800boattops.com
 
sponsors
Earn Online Degree Faster
Earn your College Degree Online Fast. Financial Aid Option. Enroll Now
UniversityCollegeSearch.info

In Home Care
Find Top Rated In Home Nurses. Get The Best Care At The Best Price.
atyoursidehomecare.com

Hiring: $5000 Month Job
Get Paid To Be A Mystery Shopper. Accepting Immediate Applicants.
MysteryShopAtHome.com

similar discussions
"Liberal" news The Young Turks takes on Democrats who support NDAA
Attacked by their own fan base, they break down the wording in NDAA in this video and criticize the...
Constitution 101...installment #1. "seperation of church and state
I decided to start this because of a few discussions that quoted the "seperation of church and...
The U.S. oath of enlistment was changed in 1960, good decision?
This change went into effect 2 years later and in 1962 anyone who joined than had to use this oath:...
Witness protection - why cant it be made the responsibility of the accused?
If I were to draft Indian Penal Code and all relevant rules and laws, I would make accused...
Spending Problem or Income Problem?
Well, that's one of the easiest questions to answer, why? Because financial deficits are almost...
Here is a Poem I wrote
Yes it does have something to do with Politics so don't worry. They swore an oath An Oath to...
My friend is a future corrupt official!
Today I got into my buddy who is a schoolmate of mine but we differ in the course that we are...
Obama and the Christmas Tree Tax
That's right folks, the Dept. of Agriculture hasn't put in a request to Congress to come up with a...
Americans sign a petition to repeal the first amedment
A social experiment on the scary side. Mark Dice a anti-war, Christian conspiracy theorist decided...
Realizing I've been wrong about the border fence issue.
Yup, you read it right, I was wrong about the border fence issue. I'm among those who have been...
sponsors
Earn Online Degree Faster
Earn your College Degree Online Fast. Financial Aid Option. Enroll Now
UniversityCollegeSearch.info
In Home Care
Find Top Rated In Home Nurses. Get The Best Care At The Best Price.
atyoursidehomecare.com
Hiring: $5000 Month Job
Get Paid To Be A Mystery Shopper. Accepting Immediate Applicants.
MysteryShopAtHome.com
Healthcare Jobs
Find healthcare job services Search our comprehensive directory
www.business.com
5 Foods to never eat
Cut down a bit of stomach fat every day by never eating these 5 foods
Truthaboutabs.com
Wholesale Marine Supplies
Sunbrella, Strataglass, Nautolex, YKK Zippers
www.1800boattops.com
Home Health Services
Need Home Health Care? Find Health
yellowpages.com
return to mylot
We are loading a word from our sponsors. No thanks, cancel loading.