Who is Stewart Rhodes and OathKeepers?

I had stumbledup on the website about six months ago. Did a blog on it and now when I saw your discussion, I decided to revist the website, they've grown and refined it nicely. I am well aquainted with Mr. Rhodes and have read his website from 'cover to cover'. And watched a few videos of his. Good man.

I am so glad you came to this discussion Tanker...as it was your blog that alerted me to this website!

Perhaps you would care to elaborate a bit on this for us.

LMAO, look at the last 8 years, and NOW you want to defend the constitution? You are alittle late to the party!!

It is you who are late to the party, greatdebater. Like I've said to you before, the debate has moved on from who started this, to how we fix it. Most people KNOW already...that Bush and Obama are two peas in a pod...get past your hatred of Bush and figure out how to stop the bad guy in power NOW.

Hey lousydebater... What is it with you communists that make you hate Bush so much? He did more for you than any other president did when he started the bailouts.

Comrade 0bama took the opening provided by Bush and greatly accelerated their common agenda.

I'm not late to the party... I realized Bush was not a conservative a couple of years ago when I discovered the similarity between his administration and BJ(get me another cigar Monica)Clinton.

Now we see the extension of the Bush years in 0bama.

Not only did I had this moron pegged well before the election, I at least know what the issues are and what the Constitution says, which is a lot more than you understand.

You can't get past Bush=Band so anyone but Bush has got to be better.

ROFLMAO at you.

They want to focus on what got us into this mess, instead of dealing with the mess. It's real hard for some people to admit they've been lied to, and actually fell for the lie. Until they can do that...

Deb, the fact is that these people who started this "oath" stood by and let the Bush administration walk all over the constitution. So what makes us believe they don't want to do this again?


Explain this to me: So you want the people who's job it is to defend the country, and listen to our leaders to ignor them, and listen to someone who didn't act when all of this was happening? And, why didn't you feel this way when Bush ran the country?

"What is it with you communists that make you hate Bush so much?"

You just said that you agreed with the philosophy of this group. The Bush administration violated atleast four of the point of this group. So I guess this makes you a "communist" as well.

"He did more for you than any other president did when he started the bailouts."

Bush destroyed the constitution, and left the country much worse off then when he came into office. I was always told that is the true test of a president.

"I'm not late to the party... I realized Bush was not a conservative a couple of years ago when I discovered the similarity between his administration and BJ(get me another cigar Monica)Clinton."

There weren't to many simularities between Clinton and Bush. Clinton helped the country, Bush did everything he could to destroy it. Just look at how they left office, that should tell you everything.

"Not only did I had this moron pegged well before the election, I at least know what the issues are and what the Constitution says, which is a lot more than you understand."

Really, how is that of great one???

"You can't get past Bush=Band so anyone but Bush has got to be better."

Look at the facts, it is amazing that the country survived Bush Administration.

Deb, the fact is that these people who started this "oath" stood by and let the Bush administration walk all over the constitution. So what makes us believe they don't want to do this again?


You keep saying that people let Bush do the things he did. WHAT would you have them DO? If you'd follow the links I posted for you, you would realize that this man, Stewart Rhodes has done alot for his country. Just who are YOU to say someone sat back and did nothing? WHAT have YOU done! Did you go to Washington and speak up during the Bush years? Did you contact your congressman/woman? I'm tired of you using what someone did or didn't do in the past to justify yourself NOT doing something now, which is a PRESENT danger, not something in the past that we cannot change!

Explain this to me: So you want the people who's job it is to defend the country, and listen to our leaders to ignor them, and listen to someone who didn't act when all of this was happening? And, why didn't you feel this way when Bush ran the country?

NO, I want those who taken an oath to uphold the CONSTITUTION to obey that oath, and not some man who was born in KENYA! Who's proven he could care less about me, or YOU and our LIBERTY guaranteed by the highest law of the land!

If they are here to defend the country, why would they EVER need to turn their guns on US? Why would they need to come into our homes and take what is OURS?

And just HOW do you know HOW I felt during the BUSH years?

IN response to what you replied to Destiny: Get over it and move on! Bush is sitting his butt in Texas doing nothing of any import. YOU failed to stop him as well, I might add. So, what DID you do during the Bush years, greatdebater?

DO something now! Besides compain about the PAST. It is as plain as the nose on my face...that Obama is going to do worse (has already done worse) than Bush ever did. We all know that Bush set it up for Obama...NOW do something to STOP HIM.

louseydebater... You just proved your ignorance.

The Patriot Act was a Clinton idea that Bush enacted.

Clinton increased the impact of the CRA which ultimately burst the housing bubble, and the ensuing economic problems.

Clinton was the one who first talked about WMD's in Iraq, and is the one who began a bombing campaign with the express purpose of softening Saddam up for our impending invasion.

So get off your it was Bush soapbox, because you have n clue as to what you are talking about... which happens to be a condition quite common with liberals.

You could only hope I was a dirty commie... I am a conservative... something this country has far too few of.

I googled President Clinton and the origins of the patriot act, here's what I got:

The Patriot Act was not a dramatic departure from existing legislation, but can be more accurately described as the extension of laws and the implementation of reforms long recommended by the security and intelligence communities. The key provisions of the Patriot Act are actually incorporated from an anti-terrorism measure proposed by the Clinton Administration and adopted by Congress in 1996. This was the "Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996," which was inspired by the worst terrorist atrocity on American soil up to that time - the April 1995 bombing of the Federal Building in Oklahoma City by Timothy McVeigh, which killed 175 innocent people.

This 1996 Act was passed by a 91 to 8 margin in the U.S. Senate and was signed into law by President Clinton. It contained a number of key provisions to combat terrorism, but the ones that immediately inspired the formation of a coalition against the legislation were three in particular: the provision making it criminal to provide "material support" or "expert advice or assistance" to terrorist groups; the provision allowing the use of secret evidence in terrorism cases; and the provision authorizing the U.S. Secretary of State, the Secretary of the Treasury, and the Attorney General to jointly designate organizations as terrorist groups based upon available evidence.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/guideDesc.asp?catid=101&type=issue

"You keep saying that people let Bush do the things he did. WHAT would you have them DO?"

What the rest of us did: Stand up and tell everyone what was going on. If these guys are as powerful as they claim to be, they would have no problem stopping this from happening, or atleast starting a discussion of their orders (which is what they are ask people to do now).

If you'd follow the links I posted for you, you would realize that this man, Stewart Rhodes has done alot for his country. Just who are YOU to say someone sat back and did nothing?"

I did stand up when our government ACTUALLY violated the constitutuion, unlike the vast majority of people. I have never heard of this guy till this week, and I have read the links that you supplied. I just wonder why he just recently created this Oath Keepers when all of the constitutional problems started 7 years ago.

"WHAT have YOU done! Did you go to Washington and speak up during the Bush years? Did you contact your congressman/woman?"

I e-mailed my representative Marcy Kapter, I also e-mailed my two republican representatvies who responding to my e-mails saying that our president knows what he is doing. I had to laugh at that one seeing how one of them was kicked out of office two years ago, and the other one will be gone next year. I did go to rallies, I also called right wing hate radio stations and made them look like fools. I also worked to kick these lying sacks of you know what out of office I and we have been very sucessful. I also worked for Obama last year, so I have done what I can to change the wrong way our country was headed under Bush.


"I'm tired of you using what someone did or didn't do in the past to justify yourself NOT doing something now, which is a PRESENT danger, not something in the past that we cannot change!"

I am tired of people saying that we should ignor our past and blame everything on Obama. If you don't know your past, then you won't know your future. Republicans forgot our past when they repealed the Glass-Steagell Act, and took $200 million from the banking industry, thus creating the Bush repression. I am also tired of people saying that Obama took over the banks thus nationalizing them. Please show when the bailouts happened, and who was president.

"NO, I want those who taken an oath to uphold the CONSTITUTION to obey that oath, and not some man who was born in KENYA!"

So you want people in the Kenay military not to violate the Kenya constitution? Do they even have a constitution in Kenya? And, why do you care about Kenya? I am talking about the United States, not Kenya, if you have problems with Kenya then go to the Kenya discussion board.

"Who's proven he could care less about me, or YOU and our LIBERTY guaranteed by the highest law of the land!"

Again, I know nothing about the lead in Kenya, and I hope that he doesn't care about me, because I don't care about him.

"If they are here to defend the country, why would they EVER need to turn their guns on US? Why would they need to come into our homes and take what is OURS?"

I don't know, but you might want to ask D!ck Cheney that seeing how that is exactly what he wanted to do in Buffalo New York. May be his new book will tell you why he wanted to do this. Please show me where Obama has asked anyone to do this. I would like to know.

"And just HOW do you know HOW I felt during the BUSH years?"

Because you have defend Bush and blamed Obama for everything. You also think that this group is a great thing for this country, but haven't questioned WHO is really leading them. I never called on our military to rise up against Bush, even though they he violated the constitution many times (and the points that the "oath Keepers" claim to support). Our military has leaders and they are trained to obey orders. What if we had planes that could have shot down the two planes that crashed into the world trade center. Would you want them questioning their orders to shoot down those planes? This is exactly what this group wants.

"The Patriot Act was a Clinton idea that Bush enacted."LMAO, I see that you the ingornate one here Destiny. Please provide me with a link showing poof of your stupidity. "Clinton increased the impact of the CRA which ultimately burst the housing bubble, and the ensuing economic problems."9 years later???? You are delusional. Bush and McCain have said time and time again that they saw this coming in 2005. AND DID NOTHING TO STOP IT!!!! The problems started under Clinton, but became a huge crisis do to lack of regulation under the Bush administration. "Clinton was the one who first talked about WMD's in Iraq, and is the one who began a bombing campaign with the express purpose of softening Saddam up for our impending invasion."Clinton never intended to invade Iraq, he knew that they contained, and were not causing problems. "So get off your it was Bush soapbox, because you have n clue as to what you are talking about... which happens to be a condition quite common with liberals."Yet, I have facts on my side, and you Bull Sh!t on yours. What would you believe? LOL, I forgot you have already answered that question. "You could only hope I was a dirty commie... I am a conservative... something this country has far too few of."You mean a conservative like Bush?? The world needs much less of them.
By the way oh great mind Destiny, how many times did you vote for Bush????

So you want people in the Kenay military not to violate the Kenya constitution? Do they even have a constitution in Kenya? And, why do you care about Kenya? I am talking about the United States, not Kenya, if you have problems with Kenya then go to the Kenya discussion board.

Do you realize when one of his relatives stood for election in Kenya, he went to support him. When said relative LOST...he instituted a bloody coup and killed hundreds?

And for the last time, I'm telling YOU that I DO NOT support what Bush or Cheney has done. I was delusional like you at one time...thinking the party I supported was doing NO WRONG...but I've found that to be just plain stupid. UNLIKE you, I realize they BOTH are screwing us royally.

I'm sick of hearing HOW OBMAMA CAN DO NO WRONG.

If you'd care to, it's easy enough to find proof of BOTH parties being responsible for the mess we're in...including YOURS.

The argument is not Who started it, remember....we're way past that.

and I notice you have posted NO DEFENSE of Obama other than to say...Bush/Republicans did it first! Come with some reasons why he is doing good, and I'll give a listen.

"Do you realize when one of his relatives stood for election in Kenya, he went to support him. When said relative LOST...he instituted a bloody coup and killed hundreds?"

Did Barack assist in this Coup? Was he even in the country when it happened? This isn't the fist time that a presidents brothers have had shady past. I hate to bring up your idol Bush again, but Jeb, and Neal both cost tax payers millions in loans that they defauled on in the S & L collapse in the late 80's. In this case though their dad did have influence in their lack of jail time when other went to jail.

"And for the last time, I'm telling YOU that I DO NOT support what Bush or Cheney has done. I was delusional like you at one time...thinking the party I supported was doing NO WRONG...but I've found that to be just plain stupid. UNLIKE you, I realize they BOTH are screwing us royally."

I do understand that both parties are bad, but they aren't the same. They both do bad things, but they don't work together in fooling the American people.

"I'm sick of hearing HOW OBMAMA CAN DO NO WRONG."

I am sick of hearing people blame Obama for everything has happen the last 8 years. He has to make tough decision especially when he walked into a nightmare that Bush left the country in. But, that is his job.

"If you'd care to, it's easy enough to find proof of BOTH parties being responsible for the mess we're in...including YOURS."

You are correct that both parties have some blame for this mess, but one played a much larger role than the other.

"The argument is not Who started it, remember....we're way past that."

NO we are NOT, if you don't know how you got into a mess then who will you trust to get out of it. Would you listen to people that tried to destroy the economy when it comes to rebuilding the economy?

"and I notice you have posted NO DEFENSE of Obama other than to say...Bush/Republicans did it first! Come with some reasons why he is doing good, and I'll give a listen."

The economy is starting to turn around, wall street is starting to get back on track, and they are starting to set highs. The stimulas package is starting to really make a difference the only problem is the time tables set on the money means that some companies are going to have to work over time to get jobs done in time to make the end of year time frame. There are certain areas that are doing great, the steel industry is really do good right now, along with certain construction sectors. All and All I think that if Obama can turn this economy around in two years it will me a miracle. But, the American people don't have that kind of patience. And when you have a party that wants him to fail sometimes it is hard to get the good news out.

louseydebater... You want links?.... I got links.

This list will demonstrate your lack of understanding and knowledge of the subject matter that you have been mindlessly spewing on about.

Read it and weep, because you have been shown to be a fool.

Maybe you will learn something, although the ability to learn may be beyond your reach.

http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/billC.htm

http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/clinton-weapons-of-mass-destruction.html

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/236jmcbd.asp

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/historyprofiles/tp/clinton.htm

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/527uwabl.asp

http://www.buildingsystems.com/profiles/blogs/is-bill-clintons-legacy-doomed

http://rightwingnews.com/quotes/demsonwmds.php

http://www.libertylobby.org/articles/2001/20010117clinton_legacy.html

As to your assertion that Bush did nothing to stop the financial meltdown... you are IN ERROR.

Both Bush and McCain took step on numerous occasions to regulate Fannie and Freddie, and the democrats blocked every attempt to do so.

The democrats are responsible for the economy, not Bush and not the republicans.

Now go sit in the corner like a good little boy while the adults talk.

Folks, all of you, I'm way past trying to convince you of danger. If you want to remain in the dark....I cannot make you see the light. I suggest everyone start reading up on the flu...and don't just read what will support your 'mind set'. Read it all....and make a decision. I suggest starting with Joseph Moshe.

Then start reading all those 'nut cases' and listening to those 'whack jobs' cause I do believe we are about to need their advice.

Pardon my shortness...my daughter had emergency surgery last night, I stayed up with a very unhapppy breastfed baby that wanted his mommy. I spent most of the night walking and praying...for wisdom. For courage. YOu see, if this state of emergency is taken to the limit...and the demand that I, as a healthcare worker, take the vaccine, I will refuse. Now, do you think in a town that has NOT had ONE documented case of swine flu....that I, or anyone else should have to face that kind of decision?

I'm done trying to convince you all...I have my own worries.

Destiny (tiny would be the size of your intellect), Who ran the entire government between 2004 and 2006? Bush made this comments in 2005, when his party controlled the ENTIRE GOVERMENT. So please explaing to me how it is that when you control the entire government, your hands were tied????? Why don't you find a discussion that you understand, maybe something about incompetince, it looks like you know alot about that!!

Look at the facts, it is amazing that the country survived Bush Administration.


It didn't.

Did Obama assist in this coup? (in Kenya)
No, not exactly. But he did support his erstwhile relative campaign Raila Odinga. You know, the one who went on a rampage after he lost?

On Dec. 27, 2007 a surprise victory for former president Mwai Kibaki (PNU) in the Kenyan presidential election was followed by arson and violence aroused by suspicions of vote rigging. More than 200 have been killed and tens of thousands displaced. Opposition candidate Raila Odinga (ODM) is contesting Kibaki's election, and has declared himself the winner. Much of the violence is directed towards Kikuyu communities, the tribe of Kibaki and many of the Kenyan establishment, but there have also been retaliations against other communities.

A ban on live media throughout the crisis has meant that bloggers are one of the few valuable information sources available.

http://globalvoicesonline.org/specialcoverage/kenya-elections-aftermath-2008/


By mid-February 2008, more than 1,500 Kenyans were killed. Many were slain by machete-armed attackers. More than 500,000 were displaced by the religious strife. Villages lay in ruin. Many of the atrocities were perpetrated by Muslims against Christians.

The violence was led by supporters of Raila Odinga, the opposition leader who lost the Dec. 27, 2007, presidential election by more than 230,000 votes. Odinga supporters began the genocide hours after the final election results were announced Dec. 30. Mr. Odinga was a member of Parliament representing an area in western Kenya, heavily populated by the Luo tribe, and the birthplace of Barack Obama's father.


further down...

This was not Mr. Odinga's first brush with notoriety. Like his father, Jaramogi Oginga Odinga, the main opposition leader in the 1960s and 1970s, Raila Odinga is a Marxist He graduated from East Germany's Magdeburg University in 1970 on a scholarship provided by the East German government. He named his oldest son after Fidel Castro.

Raila Odinga was implicated in the bloody coup attempt in 1982 against then-President Daniel Arap Moi, a close ally of the United States. Kenya has been one of the most stable democracies in Africa since the 1960s. The ethnic cleansing earlier this year was the worst violence in Kenya since that 1982 coup attempt.

Mr. Odinga spent eight years in prison. At the time, he denied guilt but later detailed he was a coup leader in his 2006 biography. Statue of limitations precluded further prosecution when the biography appeared.

Initially, Mr. Odinga was not the favored opposition candidate to stand in the 2007 election against President Mwai Kibaki, who was seeking his second term. However, he received a tremendous boost when Sen. Barack Obama arrived in Kenya in August 2006 to campaign on his behalf. Mr. Obama denies that supporting Mr. Odinga was the intention of his trip, but his actions and local media reports tell otherwise.

Mr. Odinga and Mr. Obama were nearly inseparable throughout Mr. Obama's six-day stay. The two traveled together throughout Kenya and Mr. Obama spoke on behalf of Mr. Odinga at numerous rallies. In contrast, Mr. Obama had only criticism for Kibaki. He lashed out against the Kenyan government shortly after meeting with the president on Aug. 25. "The [Kenyan] people have to suffer over corruption perpetrated by government officials," Mr. Obama announced.

"Kenyans are now yearning for change," he declared. The intent of Mr. Obama's remarks and actions was transparent to Kenyans - he was firmly behind Mr. Odinga.

Mr. Odinga and Mr. Obama had met several times before the 2006 trip. Reports indicate Mr. Odinga visited Mr. Obama during trips to the U.S. in 2004, 2005 and 2006. Mr. Obama sent his foreign policy adviser Mark Lippert to Kenya in early 2006 to coordinate his summer visit. Mr. Obama's August trip coincided with strategizing by Orange Democratic Movement leaders to defeat Mr. Kibaki in the upcoming elections. Mr. Odinga represented the ODM ticket in the presidential race.

Mr. Odinga and Mr. Obama's father were both from the Luo community, the second-largest tribe in Kenya, but their ties run much deeper. Mr. Odinga told a stunned BBC Radio interviewer the reason why he and Mr. Obama were staying in near daily telephone contact was because they were cousins. In a Jan. 8, 2008, interview, Mr. Odinga said Mr. Obama had called him twice the day before while campaigning in the New Hampshire primary before adding, "Barack Obama's father is my maternal uncle."

YOU really need to get educated, greatdebater.
You can find MORE on this site:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/12/obamas-kenya-ghosts/

Mr. Odinga said Mr. Obama had called him twice the day before while campaigning in the New Hampshire primary before adding, "Barack Obama's father is my maternal uncle."

"Kenyans are now yearning for change," he declared. The intent of Mr. Obama's remarks and actions was transparent to Kenyans - he was firmly behind Mr. Odinga.

Sure hope he didn't mean thatkind of change here, huh?

louseydebater.... Who ran the entire government between 2004 and 2006? Bush made this comments in 2005, when his party controlled the ENTIRE GOVERMENT. So please explaing to me how it is that when you control the entire government, your hands were tied?????

The democrats now control the entire government and can't get their Healthcare passed... and barely got their Pedophile Protection Bill (Hate Crimes) passed, and they only managed that by attaching it to an unrelated "must pass" defense bill.... and they have a far larger majority then the republicans had.

The fact that you don't know how that works just further demonstrates how the words Liberal and Stupidity work so well when used in conjunction with each other.

Bush did not have a veto proof majority in Congress, nor did the republicans have the numbers that the democrats now have.

What part of this very basic concept are you having trouble understanding?

With all of those links I provided, you don't have time for useless commenting, because you got some serious reading to do... unless your demand for links was merely a ploy.

I hope he does not...cause that means an order went out to turn guns on US!

You are right, that will be the ultimate test...of all of us.

I guess cause they're finally waking up?

And I think this is the alarm clock responsible...mind you, it's from one of YOUR sources...you know, not WND: http://www.mylot.com/w/di...

And all I saw Chris Matthews do is try to make it sound like this is a right wing extremist group, which it is not. They state very clearly on the website that they are not out to wage war on the government or turn their guns on the government...if he'd done his homework (MR. Matthews) and not talked over MR. Rhodes when he tried to answer, he'd have known that.

greatdebater, I'll let Mr. Rhodes answer you himself.

Found this on a comment or their blogspot page, it is similar to yours, asking where were 'you internet tough guys during the last eight years'. Mr. Rhodes answer is:

www.stewart-rhodes.blogspot.com

There, you can read nearly everything I have written for the past five years, including multiple papers and articles condemning the Bush doctrines of the "unitary executive" and enemy combatant status, as well as how Bush's own lawyers stabbed gun owners in the back. Most of those articles you can find as permanent links on the upper right side.


If you're not satisfied with knowing he's been vocal about ALL the abuses of both parties...go ask him yourself.

Deb, I have never heard of this guy till the post that Annie did. If this guy has been doing this for five years, then why haven't right winger been supporting him? Did it NOT fit their political needs? I looked at this oath, and I noticed four of the points that the Bush administration violated. So I wonder how many of these "Oath Keepers" found those actions to be acceptable when Bush did it. I feel a need to point out hypocracy when I see it, and this group seam to be made up of it.


I think Chris did a good job, I would have questioned him on how many points were violated by the Bush administration, and why his group didn't stand up at the time. But, all in all, I think he did a great job. It will be interesting to see the right wingers flock to this group and denouce all of the things that they supported for the last 8 years.

I had to laugh when I did a little research on this wacko group. Their motto is: "Not on Our Watch!". But, if they are signing up memeber of the military, and law enforcement that have been working for the last 8 years some of these things happened under their "watch".

Very interesting isn't it.

You take a lot for granted.

Some day greatdebater, some day you will wonder why you didn't listen.

Deb, So far my logic has proven 100% correct, and if you and your people would have listened to me, you would have known now, what I knew 6 years ago. Back then I was a wacko, now the people that called me a wacko are amazed at how bad our country has become, and are blaming Obama. When facts that I knew, and told them 6 years ago prove that they were the problem. And they can't handle that they could possible be WRONG. Look at the facts Deb, and wake up. Denial isn't just a river.

You know, greatdebater. I just realized why you keep harping on this 'Bush did it first'.

You're p!ssed that YOU were called a whacko. (you'd think it would keep you from calling other's names) And instead of speaking out about what goes on in the White House NOW you harp on what Bush did then, as if it were the only thing we should be concerned with. IF I said, ok...Bush is an idiot and he is responsible for this mess...would you then start doing something to wake people up to the danger we are in NOW? I still say, SO WHAT to who started this. Heck, I could research the very beginnings of this mess even FURTHER back to Alexander Hamilton...but WHY waste time on that when RIGHT NOW we are in the most serious danger as a people, that we have ever been.

This isn't about YOUR ego being bruised, greatdebater....it's about NATIONAL SURVIVAL!

I sure hope they don't give me the bunk next to you when we are all in concentration camps for merely voicing an opinion. (you got a profile on Facebook or MySpace?) Your remarks on Bush won't save you, me thinks.

"You know, greatdebater. I just realized why you keep harping on this 'Bush did it first'.

You're p!ssed that YOU were called a whacko. (you'd think it would keep you from calling other's names) And instead of speaking out about what goes on in the White House NOW you harp on what Bush did then, as if it were the only thing we should be concerned with."

Deb, I am not upset about that, it just shows the idiots who didn't listen to me were the ones that were WRONG. Which means that their judgement isn't very good, and shouldn't be trusted. This is pretty simple, if you can't trust someone that why listen to them?


"IF I said, ok...Bush is an idiot and he is responsible for this mess...would you then start doing something to wake people up to the danger we are in NOW?"

I would have to see where your points make sense, and if ANYTHING you have said is factually based, and can be proven. Your Obama supported a coupe sure isn't helping matter, and your Obama was born in Kenya makes strike two. Should I just want for strike three, or just assume that you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Should I just ignor you like so many republicans did me, and look like a fool, or should I do the research and see for myself. I have read about the coupe, and there is NO proof that Obama took any part in this, nor is there any proof that he supported the coupe. Do I believe that Obama was born in Kenya, NO. Why, because there is NO PROOF. Show me documented proof, and I will look at it.

I am open to looking at information, but it has to be REAL.

"I still say, SO WHAT to who started this. Heck, I could research the very beginnings of this mess even FURTHER back to Alexander Hamilton...but WHY waste time on that when RIGHT NOW we are in the most serious danger as a people, that we have ever been."

What are you going to do about it? I saw this mess coming years ago, and told everyone I could, and it did nothing. I listen to smart people who were on TV telling people what was going on, and they couldn't stop it. What do you think YOU can do?

"This isn't about YOUR ego being bruised, greatdebater....it's about NATIONAL SURVIVAL!"

I country survived the major crisis Deb, it is moving on and getting stronger.

"I sure hope they don't give me the bunk next to you when we are all in concentration camps for merely voicing an opinion. (you got a profile on Facebook or MySpace?) Your remarks on Bush won't save you, me thinks"

Unless you are going to another country I don't think you will ever see a concentration camp in the US where you would be forced into because of your political views. If our government could have done that, Cheney would have found a way to do it.

I'm done with you, you're hopeless.

I posted a link up there in response to greatdebater...to Mr. Rhodes original website. He is quite a smart man...acedemically and common sense. BTW...on the Oathkeepers.org website is an invitation for ALL concerned Americans to join. Take some time, read his writings on both sites...and join up if it is what you feel you should do.

I'm seriously looking into it. Just about every avenue of my life is currently on pause, however.
dr...

Mine too, my youngest son was in ICU at Barne's Jewish Hospital with liver failure. God is good, he pulled through and now is home recuperating.

How is it with you? I hope it is not something serious.