How Do Christian Feminists Balance Their Beliefs...  | | ...with what is in the Bible?
Don't get me wrong...I believe in equal rights for everyone...but mostly the Bible appears (to me anyway) to label women as possessions, and says that they should be subservient to their husbands, and stuff like that.
So how does a Christian woman support equal rights for women when the Bible teaches that women are NOT equal?
And for the record...no, I am not a Christian, I am agnostic (which is NOT an atheist, which so many people seem to confuse the two terms), but I am curious about many things and wish to try to understand them better.
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| | | | | | | | 1. wonttakelong (1602) | 3 weeks ago | that is a VERY good question I am not Christian so I dont have an answer but I am curious to read what other people think about this
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The_Lamb_Lies_Down (2589) | 3 weeks ago | I'm not even sure what brought this question to my mind...it just suddenly popped in my head earlier today, and the more I thought about it, the curiouser I got.
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sndcain36 (2644) | 3 weeks ago | Val, I think you'll find my responses interesting....
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| | 3. hornswaggled (1908) | 3 weeks ago | Well I guess I'll be the first to wade into this water.....big mouth and all. I am a woman and I am a Christian. I do believe women have the same rights and choices that men have. I do believe they don't get it a lot of times; at least in jobs.....something about being penalized for having a womb. I have read the bible many times and when I was young I was like you Mike. I wasn't sure I wanted to believe something like this because of the obvious contradictions of the beliefs I had with those of the bible. But as I've aged and have lived life a little I realize that I am not so worried or bothered by the actual facts of the bible. By that I mean it was written by men a very very long time ago. And they not only believed that women were little more than possessions but that they accepted slavery. So I realized that this WAS the times. And not necessarily the bible. It was written by a human. Now there are those here who will tell me that the literal translation of the bible is the only way to believe but I can't but help think that the God I know and love would want me to be a possession of my husband with no rights; no say in our life together. So I guess it comes down to this. Either you feel it or you don't. The words are just words unless you can get something out of them. And it took a lot of time reading and rereading to get something out of the bible for me. It wasn't something that I understood or even liked at first but for me the understanding of what God wanted was like dawn breaking.....you know the moments before the sun rises and it's totally dark and then you realize you see a little light? And then a little more and a little more until you can't remember how dark it was a few moments ago? Well that's the way it was for me....and still is really. I can't tell you how many times I've attended church with a really big need. I asked Him to help me...and the homily (sermon to those in non Catholic land) was just perfect. Then I'd mention it to someone else that attended and they would say the same thing! That to me means this message is universal and that it was meant for all of us; all the time. So I guess if you want to believe that He is there and that He is listening then do this..... ask Him for something. Anything. Just make it something small to begin with and see what happens. You don't have to tell anyone....and see if He is not real. Well I'm off the podium now Mike....you can come out from your hidey hole now.....(smiles at her friend and walks away....)
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| | 4. cloudwatcher (3219) | 3 weeks ago | Firstly, I am a Christian and I am a woman. I have known, loved and served my Father God, through the Lord Jesus Christ, for 51 of my 73 years. My relationship to my Saviour has first priority in my life.
I have been very happily married to my wonderful husband for almost 50 years. I believe he is the head of the house and I have no trouble leaving that responsibility with him.
Does that mean I am SUBJECT to him? Well, that depends, I suppose, on the understanding of the word. We discuss everything. He asks for and listens to my ideas on any subject and we share our thoughts. Sometimes, I agree with his way and sometimes he agrees with mine, but we come to a mutual decision. If, after discussing something, there is still doubt, I am happy to leave it with him, knowing that he will do what he thinks is the best for all concerned.
Do I have trouble being "subject" to him? Never! Why? That is simple.
The Bible does not say we are to be subservient. Firstly, it says the husband is to love his wife "as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for it". Now, that is self-sacrificing love. That is selfless, all-giving love. When a woman has a husband who shows that kind of love, she has no trouble following the next part: "Wives, be subject to your own husbands".
I rejoice in my husband's love and delight to allow him to take the responsibility of the head of the home. I wouldn't have it any other way. (And no, I am not a "mousy" type of woman who has no opinions. Far from it!)
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sndcain36 (2644) | 3 weeks ago | Anyone who's ever been in a successful marriage can attest to the truth of what you're saying.
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| | | 5. tambrerocks (94) | 3 weeks ago | No offense, but I would say there can be no balance but more a denial about what their beliefs based on the Bible mean for them. It is like a conflict of interest. I think the Bible (written by men) is what has held women back all through the history of Christianity. What is interesting is there was a time when women were leaders. The only reason men took over running the world was due to physical superiority, certainly not mental. Gee, can you tell I am a feminist? hah, yes! I was raised a Catholic and walked away at a very early age because it did not make sense to me, for instance a Women's role in family and church.
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| | 6. reeyan (422) | 3 weeks ago | Hi The_Lamb_Lies_Down
Actually participation of me in rhis discussion is not intended to hurt the feeling who are devoted to the spiritual value. So I want to apologize for them who think me that I am against the spiritual thought.
I think all the values added in the mythological ideology is little against the liberty of woman. Not only one particular religion it is seen, but all the religion have some identical rules and guideline that against the right of the woman.
I this the cause behind it is that all the mythological philosophy is created by man. We have ever seen that there are any prophet is there in the root of any religion. So the intention of domination of woman may be one cause of the contradictory guideline that is against woman.
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| | 7. jb78000 (1625) | 3 weeks ago | everyone? including rabbits?
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jb78000 (1625) | 3 weeks ago | just as well really. otherwise i would have to step up the wereing and you would have to use that hammer.
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| | 8. Irishfrndly65 (7305) | 3 weeks ago | No it doesn't 'teach' that women are NOT equal. The strictures placed on men are are powerful as those placed upon the women. And IF the man was doing what God commanded him TO do then the women would have no freaking problem being "submmissive". I'm living this love, you want me to quote you what God has told MAN to do? You want me to show you the ONUS He has put on the male?
I can disprove everything negative you've written here. Yes it does put man in a role of authority, WITH limitations, but IF he would freakin do what God commanded him to do, his woman would be giving him more love, honor and respect than any man could ever handle in one lifetime. Some of us, have done it anyway, some of us chose the wrong man to honor..........................
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Irishfrndly65 (7305) | 3 weeks ago | ...forgive me...I didn't mean to get so het up, like I said, I'm living this, lived it. I did MY part, to the best I knew how, he even told me I was a "good wife"..............
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sndcain36 (2644) | 3 weeks ago | The Bible says to "submit UNTO ONE ANOTHER as unto Christ".
There isn't a single passage in the Bible that makes me think God finds me to be in any way inferior to any man.
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| | 9. sndcain36 (2644) | 3 weeks ago | Where does the Bible teach that women aren't equal to men?
The exhortations in Corinthians are address to Greeks who were VERY misogynistic and Paul was trying to keep the the peace. God meets people where they are and the Greeks weren't ready for equal rights. So Paul offered them advice which they could understand.
The OT has women in every echelon of power and God used a woman more than once to save the nation of Israel.
If you read the Gospels, Jesus' closest friends were all women. It was to women He turned when He wanted to chill and relax. In fact, Jesus hung out at a well with a Samaritan woman--something which was NEVER done.
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sndcain36 (2644) | 3 weeks ago | well, a cursory look at that site shows me there's a tremendous amount of misdirection...
[The woman was created after the man to be his helpmeet, not his head. Obviously, this is NOT a cultural matter, but is based upon the order of creation; this establishment of the principle of order transcends culture!]
There is nothing in that statement that says a woman is inferior. In fact, the idea that man NEEDED God to make him a "helpmeet" tells me that man is the weaker creature. Man couldn't survive on his own. He NEEDED woman.
Remember, woman came out of man, so if you take away woman man becomes less. There is a tremendous amount of power inherent in that idea...
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sndcain36 (2644) | 3 weeks ago | http://www.wcg.org/lit/ch... a good rebuttal site to the Timothy references.
My personal observations of Scripture and in life lead me to believe that the truth is that men are very weak when it comes to women...women, rather than being inferior, are extremely powerful creatures and men are generally incapable of exercising good judgment when it comes to us. I am very very aware of the power I wield with the men in my life and I am very very careful with it.
What's more, I believe culture and history reflects that men are weak when it comes to women and the attempt to devalue women is man's way of fighting back against what is his greatest weakness.
Look at Islam; no religion seeks to neutralize a women's power more than the Quran. And every culture with few exceptions has sought to do the same.
The Bible absolutely bears up this truth. Rather than painting women as inferior, it portrays women as extraordinarily powerful and even dangerous. Think about it: do you think there would be any need for warn women to be "silent" in the churches if women didn't wield tremendous influence? It's because men are weak that there are warnings.
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sndcain36 (2644) | 3 weeks ago | The hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world.....
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sndcain36 (2644) | 3 weeks ago | Think about this: In the Garden of Eden the Serpent deceived Eve, and she used her power over Adam to get him to sin. But check it; God held Adam culpable because it is with Adam that God had made the covenant. The Bible says that sin entered the world through ADAM, not Eve. (Romans 5:12) That's a very important and overlooked detail. It's about responsibility, not inherent value. The serpent went through Eve because he knew Adam wouldn't be able to resist her.
That's power. Real power.
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sndcain36 (2644) | 3 weeks ago | ooo ooo ooo! I thought of something else while I was in the shower...
(Dang I gotta go to work and I want to stay and play now...lol)
Okay, so we all know women are more emotional than men, right? And I can safely guess that every bad decision you ever made was made in large part due to your emotions, right? Men are less emotional and therefore more likely to make decisions based on facts and logic, where a woman will factor in things like emotions and feelings and "gut instincts". (And never ever underestimate your gut; there's a reason why "women's intuition" is lauded the world over) However, if you rely solely on your feelings without balancing it with the intellect, you're going to get into serious trouble. Which is why God appointed Adam as the "head" of the relationship.
Also, men need to be taught to be leaders. A man's first authority figure is his mother; that relationship is viscerally fundamental in shaping him and many men will fall back into that dynamic if they are not forced to lead. How many women here can testify that their husbands act more like their children than adults? They expect to be cared for, cooked for, picked up after, nurtured, etc...It's actually one of the most common complaints in most marriages. And what woman can respect a man who acts like a helpless child?
God placed Adam in a position of authority and Adam failed miserably and God held him accountable, and like my kids do when they get busted, he blamed Eve for his screw up. Now, if you're the manager of a business and one of your employees screws up, you are going to be held accountable because it was your job to keep it from happening.
Damn it; I'm feeling rushed because I have to leave for work soon...if anything I'm saying seems unclear I will come back later and clarify...
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Louc74 (169) | 3 weeks ago | But, I don't get this. Doesn't everyone know by now, that God is female??? If anything was created in the image of a creator, it's women; men don't have a womb.
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sndcain36 (2644) | 3 weeks ago | God isn't female, God isn't male; but He has the attributes of both just as everything He created has both masculine and feminine attributes. We are told that both male and female are created in God's image. And as God is perfect so is His creation and therefore women are certainly in no way inferior.
Men don't have wombs but they carry the seed needed to create life.
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| | 10. savak03 (2163) | 3 weeks ago | Well this could turn out to be a deep discussion my friend. Let me start off by saying I am a christian and a woman. I also believe that everyone has rights. Notice I left out the word equal because that is a concept that is not possible to attain. Everyone has rights but they are limited by the other persons rights. The Bible teaches this also. It tells us not to do something that will harm someone else even if we have the right to do it.
The words you used to describe a woman's role from the Bible standpoint, (possessions, subservient) are harsh and are probably paraphrased from the original language the Bible was written in. In fact the Bible teaches that women are to be loved and cherished, not beaten and abused.
Many times an individual will take a scripture out of context to prove a point that is not actually supported by the Bible as a whole. If we are going to live by Bible standards we must apply the whole book to our lives, not just portions of it.
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