if only good people go to heaven, what about the thief on the cross,etc.  

He learn2earn. All of us who have found new life in Christ have been plucked from the miry clay of sin. I'll agree some of us were almost bogged down in it. I know I was - completely and totally hopeless. The change in my life when Christ lifted me from the depths of sin and self was dramatic. Everyone who knew me saw the difference - and praise God, that difference continues 51 years later.

I am thankful, as I am sure you are, for my life before Christ, for we KNOW the REALITY of a changed life. We KNOW the REALITY of a personal relationship with the living Christ.

Thank you for your testimony.

That is what I believe. Only God has the power to redeem us from a life of sin. And some of us are through our personality able to resist horrible sins such as murder and theft. Yet when I read what others who assume because a person is good that one will go to heaven, I see they fail to realize that our human goodness is as filthy rags and no one is righteous towards God.
I thank God that HE has not only saved me from my obvious sins, but also the secret ones and the little ones that I think do not matter, but to God, they do.

Hi unique, it is very easy to enter heaven. All you have to do is say (I am sorry).
Most do that on day of worship only to start their evil ways after leaving church, all over again. Religion is great.

You have to have a changed heart. That part about people saying they are sorry and starting with their evil ways again was talked about in the Parable of the Sewer. Only those who will endure to the end will be saved. And it says that sometimes God will let people remain evil and sometimes HE will bring them to repentance, but it is up to God.
So the ones who confessed on their death beds and were truly sorry for their sins, God had opened up their hearts. If not, they remained unrepentant sinners.

Well you are right in a way, but the thief was not good while he was a thief. That is what I am getting at. If someone saw him perhaps with his disputable friends, maybe threatening a person with a dagger and ordering to "loose your purse" and not even hearing Jesus who was preaching because the crowds were so glad to get the loaves and fishes and were shouting, and there was a law abiding citizen who always gave alms, that someone would say that law abiding citizen would be more likely to follow Jesus or go into heaven, but that thief certainly would not.
It was not about after the LORD brought to HIM, it was whom people assume would be with CHRIST in his eternal glory.

I believe you're missing my point, hun. Of course he wasn't good when he was a thief, but the moment Christ (Who knew his heart)forgave him, he was no longer a thief! No longer bad! Instead, he had been cleansed by the mercy of God. So, he was good when he entered Heaven.

And no, people can't be sure who will & who won't repent, but they can be sure that if they don't, they won't be in Heaven.

"Be ye perfect, even as God in Heaven is perfect," says the bible, in several places. The thing is, God knows we cannot be good by our own doing, but only by his mercy & grace. It is given freely to all who repent & accept His grace, & His will.

That's all I'm saying. I just think you misunderstand my nuance.

Maggiepie
IMPEACH THE IMPOSTER!

I saw what you are coming from, but my post was not about after one became a Christian or a follower of Christ, but the condition that person was found in. This was in opposition to what I learned when for a short time I attended a Pentacostal church and they believed that if you were a good person, God was going to open up your heart, but if you were a bad person, i.e. gambled a lot, etc. you were lost forever. It was to show that no matter what state a person was in, he or she could still be converted.

I was reared in that institution, but I fled it when I discovered how much error they taught. Worse, there was, as you point out, a tendency to be judgmental, backed by such ignorance, & I had always been uncomfortable in it, since there was so much harshness. This isn't to say there are no good folks in it, & I wish them well, but it's not a true Church, according to the bible.

Yes, God can require harsh things from us--when it's needed--but I found little love in the religion, most glaringly, even in some of the preachers themselves! I'm not saying there were no good preachers in it--my own mother taught Sunday school, & at least one aunt preached!--but I needed to find a church which, along with the "hard teachings" of Christ (Who preached on Hell far more than Heaven, did you know that?), also made us understand His gentler forms of love, & which never preached errors, or misunderstood the bible, which can't readily be understood without much knowledge, except in certain, basic ways which even the simple-minded can understand. Ignorance breeds heresy & damnation of souls as garbage breeds maggots.

I'm just sayin'...

Maggiepie
IMPEACH THE IMPOSTER!

I could not understand the Pentacostal church speaking in tongues when I understood it meant to speak in a foreign language that you never learned, and assumed that was just temporarily while the apostles were alive and also the rules they had that your skirt had to come to the floor when you sat down, etc. and rather then believing moderation in all things, they took it to the extreme. I could not believe that talking gooblygook that they called angel speaking was really how angels did communicate with each other. I mean I had gone to the United Church where you compromised with the world and for a short time attended a church where they shouted halleluah and praise God and it is a big show and not of the heart. At least, when I went to my sons's weddings when they married Catholic girls, they did not go through all that uproar. I am glad the church I attend now preaches the full gospel and warns us about hell and the eternal punishment as well as shows us the joys of heaven.

You sound like a sincere seeker after God, & that's a good thing. May He speed you on your spiritual path!

Yes, the misnomer "speaking in tongues" is one of those things about which they were in error. Perhaps their biggest mistake. Their idea that the hysterical babbling is "the speech of angels" or, as they call it, "the unknown tongue," is erroneous in many ways.

First, it isn't any sort of language, which has been proven repeatedly in several ways by linguists, as well as biblical scholars--not the least of which is, among 2 prime facts: there aren't enough "words" to constitute a language, which needs at least a 1000 minimum to communicate even the most basic concepts.

Worse, the "language" differs in "vocabulary" from church to church (folks in Houston say entirely different syllables than folks even Dallas, & those in Louisiana are even further afield--I've heard them in all of those), & language to language. That is, if the prime language spoken in your place is English, the babble will have an English pseudo-grammatical structure. If it's Spanish, it will mimic Spanish structures. A linguistics expert could doubtless explain this better than I.

I can just hear some Pentecostal pipe up with, "Oh but you see, that just shows how efficient God's language is, & how He even tailors our 'Heavenly' utterings to accommodate us!" or some such excuse. Fine. Give them a point. All things are possible with God, & He told us not to call anyone a fool.

But they still fall short when it comes to biblical teachings, which they pretend to follow (yet ignore the parts they don't like or understand). They totally ignore the fact that not everyone who receives the Holy Spirit will "speak in tongues" (which the Church has always taught was simply a miracle which allows certain people to spread the Gospel--& despite what they think, has never ceased!)! It's in their bible, but they never discuss it....

Different gifts were given to different people, for different things! Yet they point to Acts, 2:38 & ignore the attendant verses, & bully followers into, out of desperation to be accepted by others, faking "Heavenly speech" in order to be accepted, because they absolutely brainwash (& terrify!) followers into believing that unless they exhibit this action, they will go to Hell! Period!

It's a trap from which most never escape, mentally, spiritually, & emotionally. It's driven quite a few mad, & even more, completely away from God. It's one of the saddest pieces of heresy that exists.

So as I said, I fled that lot as soon as I could, & never looked back. God blessed me with truth, & a family I love with all my heart, though we weren't born blood kin. We're all now Blood kin.

Maggiepie
IMPEACH THE IMPOSTER!

I have heard things recounted that represented true 'speaking in tongues' but I believe we lose focus on the true message of Christ when we get focused on the trappings like speaking in tongues, and some other supposed manifestations. I also have been present in PRIVATE devotions when people have spoken in a different tongue, but it is for their own personal edification. My college room mate called it her secret prayer language. It sounded remarkably like German, which she did not speak, but had some family heritage. She labeled herself a Pentecostal Lutheran. Just throwing my two cents worth in. I have also known Pentecostals who did not 'speak in tongues' but 'dance in the Spirit' or are slain in the Spirit. We have a unique God who is personal and individual in his relationship to us.

In the places I went, they did all of those things. However, even they believed the bible forbade the "private" use of other tongues, as a form of vanity. My biggest problem with that sect was their demand that all people must demonstrate they could "speak in tongues or be damned to Hell," whereas the scriptures clearly state that isn't the case. It says that different gifts were given to different people. There was no special significance of that one gift's manifestation, as regards the soul. Some never spoke in tongues at all! Think of the thief on the cross!

Maggiepie
IMPEACH HIM!

He probably only knew Aramic. I hate the idea that you have to have a special gift of you will not go to heaven, or what was in those tv churches that my sister-in=law listens to, that you do not get healed because you did not have enough faith. I have had friends who died of ms, cancer, etc. who went to church every Sunday, lived a god fearing life but God let them have those diseases and what about those like me who could not have their own natural children but had to adopt?
So God may chose to heal or to let you get sicker (and maybe get to heaven sooner.)

With the gift of tongues, you don't have to know he language you speak, although (guessing here), you understand it while you need it.

Yes, those TV preachers (the non-phony ones) are simply in error. They don't understand why God allows suffering. It can be a wonderful chance to grow closer to God, if one only knew it!

Pray that more people learn the truth about God!

Maggiepie
"WHERE'S THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE?"

I guess that God gives you the ability to understand and learn the language. We have preachers who went to Brazil and they did not know a word of Portuguese and in a short while they were preaching a sermon. I think in the case of the Apostles it was instantaneous. Anyway I do not know how it all works. Only God knows. I do not think it happens like it did in the New Testament, but I do think that God removes the blocks that keep people from learning a new language (such as you are too old, only children can.etc.)

That Question "The RIGHT CHURCH or the only CHURCH".

If you believe in God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, then that is the CHURCH, the TRUE CHURCH not what MAN has Built and states to be.

That's how I see it.

GOD has over 100 names in the Bible so who am I to say you or any other person is wrong because you call GOD the Creator by a different name.

If you believe in the great Creator and their is only one, then that to me is GOD.

Yes we can go into sin and doing good to our fellow man and the likes.

But there is only one GOD almighty, No matter what name you use for him.

HICCUP/

hi hiccup thanks for your response here have a great day.

There is only one God. HE is called Jehovah in the Old Testement, and all through THE LORD GOD, FATHER, but HE is not called Allah, Woden, Jupiter, Zeus or the names that man gave HIM outside of the Bible.
As for the true church, the true church consists of the churches who all preach the true gospel, and attend to the true rites of baptism and guard the table of the Lord's Supper as well as believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, believe one comes by faith not by works and that God is the only one who can save them.

Only in the PURE of HEART, not as the easy escape.

It has to be the REAL thing.

HICCUP/

The only way a worse person can repent is if he does not realize his sin until the last minute, like the thief on the cross, and also that jailer who never knew about Christ until Paul and Silas crossed his path. Most of the time, man has opportunity but he is blind willingly.
It is up to God to open hearts and often HE does it for a reason. But not every deathbed repentance is honest and only God knows the heart.

I didn't know that Pontious Pilot made heaven! Where does the Bible say that?

There is none righteous, no not one {Romans 3:10} This is speaking of the person(s) that are trying to make it on their own - - not accepting Jesus as Saviour.

Thee are no perfect churches either. The real church that the Bible speaks of, is made up of true "born again believers" worldwide, and becoming born again does not happen through church attendance, water (infant) baptism, taking communion, or 'trying to be good.'

When we accept Jesus, and allow Him to -- He will live His life out though ours.

The human mind / thinking is always trying to figure it out, and comes to its 'own' conclusions.

Just read the words in red, and do what it said, and you'll be ok.

'nuff said

ClassyCat

Wow, I typed "heavy" for heaven, please ignore it.

I wonder who assumed that you talked about Pontius Pilate. He let the only righteous man go to the cross because he was a coward.

He was referring to number 2, and misread what was there. It is okay, I know what I said.

I figured you did. I sometimes get misquoted as well, and people sometimes get the wrong impression as to what I mean. So I really understand.

Good grief, Hiccup, I was beginning to wonder where on earth you were! This is the first time I've seen you for a long while. I hope you're well! Start some discussions, show us some of your lovely photos!

Been very busy, and now is some down time for me.

Did a family reunion, we (bro and me) were the lost tribe of the family, so every one wanted to talk to us, and as you know I can do that well.

To this I'm just back from a Wedding of some old friends, had a very busy weekend.
I'll give you the Wedding Flowers in photo.

HICCUP/

I sort of like the idea that if you make the same mistake (or those sins that one always repeats) that one can always ask God for forgiveness. The danger is that sometimes people really do not care and say "Oh well, I did it again, but I do not need to ask God for forgiveness this time.'
Oh and how was the wedding?

To be forgiven you must ask for it and be honest when you do.
Very hot day, the Wedding was good, We or most of us went back to the Grooms/Brides house and had a nice get to-gether.
HICCUP/

That was many people do not understand. They quote the example of someone whose family member has been murdered and the father or mother saying that they forgave the murderer. But did the murderer actually come to them and asked for forgiveness? I doubt it. So if a person does not ask for forgiveness either addressing God or the person he or she wronged or even wrote an article telling how the horrible things they had done and that they were truly sorry, they cannot be forgiven.

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Where do you get that? She is mentioned, but she's never much said besides being one of Jesus' followers. And the one that ran back and told the apostles that he was alive.

Read it again, and take out any preconceived notions as to what she is - only when her name is mentioned directly.

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I read about this so many times, that you have to be perfect in order to get to heaven. Or to put it another way, if you were a thief, fornicator, lied, or were not an innate good person, that you will not put yourself in a position where you would be converted.
However these same people talk about a murderer or a bad person being converted in the same way, that one talks about that one person with a broken leg who was able to climb Mount Shasta - the one in a million person.
That is why I really do not trust when I hear only good people are saved. I really think the people who say that are saying, "I hope that God does not change the heart of 'whom ever evil person or sinful person.' and that is wrong.
Now I certainly was not good, I am not good. I have a temper. I flare up. I have lied, cheated, gambled, and if you have read some of my discussions, I have done very sinful things. Yet God brought out of all that.

It irks me when I hear that too. If we COULD be "good" or if we could ever be "good enough" WHY did Jesus have to die? The idea is preposterous and shows a lack of understanding of just what sin is. It is just one of the thousands of man-made ideas, and as I said, one of satan's most productive lies.

I certainly wasn't good either, and I am not good now. You probably did different bad things, that some people might call worse than others. The fact remains however, that sin is sin, is sin, is sin. In the eyes of God ONE sin is enough to separate us from Him. ONE sin separates us from heaven. "There is no difference: all have sinned"

What a blessing to know that our Sinbearer has taken them all!

That s for sure. I think that my sins were so horrible that I wonder why Jesus actually saved me. Certainly I deserved to die. I was a bad girl, and God could have left me in my sins and I could have gone down deeper and deeper, getting worse and worse. But HE opened up my heart.

I do think God is very choosey in whom HE lets go to heaven and that HE does that by opening hearts. However, HE did give the government the sword to punish evil doers and that included the death penalty and people have to pay for their crimes even if they came to Christ while waiting the electric chair. That thief on the cross still has crucified. After he was converted, the Roman centurion who was possibly listening did not say "That man shows true repentence. Take him off the cross at once!" So people who commit first degree murder still have to pay by being executed. Besides we do not know whether those that were just given life sentences were those who pretended to be converted or not. And knowing life sentences do not exactly mean life sentences, they may go and commit murder after their release.