The Beatles Helped to Destroy Communism?!  

It wasn't so much the 'music' as it was the westernization of their culture.

You have read the works of Alexander Alexander Solzhenitsyn haven't you. We here in America...and perhaps in other free countries like yours, have no conception of the mind and thought control that goes on in communist countries. But, we may soon realize that and wish for the days when we could freely choose what entertainment we want. Along with what we see on TV, and who is allowed to make films and just what those films, programs and songs say.

Hi Cloud! I agree, on the whole--if you think about their body of work, it wouldn't seem that they could have made such a cultural impact on the old Communist regime, but Debi is right--it wasn't so much the music itself, it was the "possibilities" of freedom that they wrought in teenagers around the world. The Russian teenagers of that time were ripe for change. They were treated as subversives by their own government for wanting to listen to Beatles music. The government would arrest people for "smuggling" records into the country that the Beatles made. They even made films cautioning the public about the dangers of mind control, if teenagers were allowed to listen to their music.
Somehow, the teenagers won the silent war and the Beatles are highly revered there, even to this day.

You hit the nail right on the head, Debi! I appreciate your input here. The program showed that citizens of the USSR were living in an environment of fear, not only from their government, but from each other. I kept thinking while I was watching the program, that much of the information the government kept using as propaganda, was similar to what most other cultures use to warn people about the use of drugs. In the collective mind of the government, who had supreme control of the population at that time (or so they thought)the Beatles were the equivalent of heroine addiction. Teenagers and others were arrested and jailed, simply for wanting to listen to their music.

Hi Holly & Debi. Yes, I can easily see how the Beatles - as part of a different lifestyle - could have a big influence. The Beatles DID have a big influence throughout the world, and no doubt those under a suppressive government would have been really jarred by the different style of life they portrayed. Their catchy music would have increased that awareness.

What you say is true, Cloud. I learned a lot from that program. I think I was most surprised by how much the teens of that time were willing to sacrifice their short term freedom, in order to gain further, more lasting freedoms later on. Eventually, their government had to acknowledge that they did not have as much control over the population as they thought. It was mentioned many times by the people who were interviewed that they lived two lives, as a matter of course. They toed the "party line" in public--and yet spent so much of their energy going "underground" and finding ways to get what they most wanted, which was "only" to be like everyone else in the world at the time. They give the credit to The Beatles, but truly--it was their own courage and drive that created the changes and the eventual downfall of the Communist regime.

I was thinking something along the lines of what Debi said too. Richard's East German cousins came here for a visit in 1988 (yep, before the wall was down) and it was interesting to see their fascination with the trappings of capitalism. Clearly their culture was influence by the things that we had that were forbidden to them. A society that is largely based on the fact that you cannot have what somebody else has is eventually going to fail, I think...

Hi Dawn! Well, it certainly proved to be true in the case of the old Communist regime of the old USSR. My understanding is that although communism still flourishes in those areas still, it's of a different form and the countries of the old Soviet Bloc do have more capitalistic tendencies now.

When you let people know that they are missing what everyone else takes for granted...it tends to make them very unhappy. Yes, it is a stretch to say they took down communism. But the discontent that Russians were already feeling about life...probably was made more apparent by allowing them to see what the West had and they did not. Namely the freedom to express theirselves and live a lifesyle such as the Beatles did.

I can see why you might doubt this supposition, my friend. But, it is difficult for anyone who didn't live through those times to relate to the atmosphere of the world then. The people of the USSR were basically shut off from the rest of the world--behind the Iron Curtain. The Iron Curtain meant that their government had complete control(or thought they did) over what came in or out of the Soviet Bloc at that time.
It only took one person to cause a revolution, in this case. Someone who had been living in the UK when the Beatles first became popular, made a videotape and smuggled into Russia. He played it over and over to his friends. It was different from anything they had ever seen before--as even music was controlled by the government then. They mainly extolled dirges, marches and ethic music, which the young people were not interested in. The Beatles music opened a whole new world to the teenagers of that day there.
When I said that The Beatles helped to end Communism--it is not my opinion, but the opinion of those same citizens of the past USSR who say so. I would think they should know above all others.

Thanks to both of you for the input. Interesting, I must say. :-)

Debi & Holly, the points you make here certainly make a lot of sense. It only takes a spark to get a fire going, and it would seem that a tiny spark (a glimpse of life in a different "world") started a fire of discontent which led to a blaze which led to freedom.

That is exactly what the theme of the program was about, my friend. I wish there were some Russian folks on myLot that we could hear from on this topic--does anyone know any?

I don't have any Russian buddies but again, I'd be interested in having this topic up for discussion. I think music has the ability to reach people in different ways so I am open to listening more about this. Again, thanks.

Hi rg0205! I agree, music is truly the universal language, isn't it? It has probably been so since the beginning of what we call music. One needn't know a country's language in order to appreciate the music. I sometimes think that in an ideal world, music is the answer to world peace. Thank you for your interest. :-)

You would have loved that program, Debi! But, I'm sure you had a bit more important stuff going on with your son right then. Maybe they'll show it on PBS again sometime there. Maybe during their "favorites" programming. It probably wouldn't be hard to find out if they will. I'd check for you, but the programming here isn't always the same as there.

Anyway, I found it fascinating, as I had known that the Russian people revered The Beatles, but didn't know all the reasons why. It goes much beyond their love of the music, as I see you already surmised. As a huge John Lennon fan, you would have enjoyed seeing much of this program, as one whole segment was devoted to one's man's shrine to John Lennon. He had an entire store front completely jam-packed with memorabilia--especially pertaining to John, but some from the rest of the group as well. You can barely move around in the room. When I thought about all the struggles that poor man had to go through, just to get those materials, I kept getting tears in my eyes. He is our age now, but started his collection in the early 60's. He has been arrested several times over the years, but has never allowed that to stop him. There are so many items on there that collectors around the world would give their eye-teeth for, but this fellow doesn't realize that, or care. They are priceless to him. Every year, he celebrates each of the Beatles birthdays by having a party for all of his friends and loyal Beatles lovers in a club he built that is an exact replica of "The Cave", the club where The Beatles were first videotaped in Liverpool.
It was John's birthday when that segment was filmed, so the party in the club was filmed as well. The entire crowd knew every word of every song. There are groups all over today's Russia who play their music. Much of it would be unrecognizable to Western ears, and probably even the Beatles, if they heard it, but the happiness on the faces of the people in that room will stay with me for a long time. The Beatles are gods to the people there. There have even been monuments erected to them!
I also loved John, but I'm a diehard George Harrison fan--I always felt he was under-appreciated for a long time. I tend to root for the under dog. lol

Atta girl! :-) I made that mistake a couple of times and then had a heck of a time finding discussions that I commented on. lol

Hi nawanta--no need to apologize at all--all opinions are welcome. I don't know if I ever heard that the US government thought they were communists, but that doesn't mean you're wrong--I just don't remember. I do know that the government was fearful of the impact the Beatles had on American teenagers, as it changed much of our way of life when they became popular in the States. But, the government also disliked Elvis Presley for the same reasons before that. The difference between how the American government reacted and the Communist government reacted, is that American citizens weren't jailed for wanting to listen to their music. The American teenagers weren't spied on or had their families threatened, etc. I agree, I think the Beatles were Socialists--as where they came from, England is a socialist country. But, in many ways the Beatles were apolitical, I think.

Hi nicanorr and Welcome to myLot!

Thank you for responding to the discussion. But, I think you will find it helpful to read all the responses above yours. It explains the reasons rather clearly, I think. If you still don't understand after that, please comment again and I will see if I can explain better for you. :-)

I just want to add something to the discussion on hand. If- indeed- there was beneficial effect of the Beatles or their songs to the Russian people and the world over- it's because of the ease of communication these days. From the TV and other media, Russian and other nationalities as well were attracted, glued, convinced, magnetized by the uncomparable cadence, synchronization, skill, ingenuity shown by the Beatles as they portray their songs.

Hi again, nicanorr!

While I heartily agree with your assessment of the talents of the Beatles, the original influence of the band on the Russian people can't be attributed to the media today.

The influences and changes that their music (and the culture that came with it)were originally felt back in the 1960's when the band first became most popular.

Televising of The Beatles back in those days would have been unthinkable in the USSR. The government completely controlled all media--and believe me, promoting The Beatles was the last thing they wanted back then.