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myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life 3 years ago

Here in the States, I see that the public schools are big on pushing the kids to learn a second language such as Spanish or French. It is required unless they have a learning disability. I have long wondered and actually have questioned the schools from time to time, why is it that they don't teach sign language? When a child is deaf/dumb they are usually educated in a special school and then they are on their own in a world where so many don't know how to communicate fluently with them. Why don't we first teach our children the art of sign language? Why is it that the deaf and mute are being taught in special schools rather than main streamed? Maybe there is a good and logical answer for this?? Is sign language universal? Just wondering.happy

 

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GardenGerty (35334) response was accepted on 5/3/2010.
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tags:  sign language, deaf, education, esol, foreign languages
 
1. myLot reputation of 91/100. giftsandbagscom (25568)   ranked 663 out of 32,950 in life   3 years ago

Your talking about kids learning to sign as a second language. I would love to come back here and read this post. i wish my daughter could master learning Spanish or french. This way when she goes back to live in Florida she can get a job faster. I have never heard of people getting jobs faster knowing sign language. Maybe it would be good.


myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

I don't know if it would help them get a job faster but it sure would be helpful for those that are deaf and mute. Also isn't sign language universal? If one didn't know spanish or french could they not communicate in that way at least? Just seems like it is something that should be taught in the schools at a young age for so many reasons.


myLot reputation of 99/100. GardenGerty (35334)   ranked 27 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

When we had the deaf students in our preschool we did practice sign language with all the students. They really enjoy it, and that would be the age to start learning it.


myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

Thats what I'm thinking too, Garden!happy

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2. myLot reputation of 95/100. jewels49 (1124)   ranked 2,915 out of 32,950 in life   3 years ago

We offer a signing class at our school. It is an elective the same way the other language classes are. We also main stream a couple of deaf students..we are super small so we don't have a large population of deaf children by our school did everything they could to include them. I think for most people, unless you know someone who is deaf, it's just not something one thinks of very much. I don't know of any schools in my area that require a language credit to graduate..that's interesting.


myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

Hi jewels,

I don't think any of our local schools teach this. I'm sure it would help those that are deaf if everyone knew it. Here the kids do have to learn another language. I think it becomes elective once in highschool but it is required in order to go on to college.


myLot reputation of 95/100. jewels49 (1124)   ranked 2,915 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

No kidding..My son is a senior this year and so far that hasn't been a requirement for any of the colleges he has applied to. They like it that he has taken the extra language courses but would still accept him without them.


myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

Hi Jewels,

I'm wrong on that one. Read Garden's post below. Oops. Things have changed a bit since I've been in school.


myLot reputation of 95/100. jewels49 (1124)   ranked 2,915 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

Thanks for clearing that up..

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3. myLot reputation of 99/100. GardenGerty (35334)   ranked 27 out of 32,950 in life   3 years ago

In our schools deaf students are mainstreamed, with sign language interpreters in class.I worked in a preschool classroom where we had two four year olds with cochlear implants, and we used the sign language known as Signing Exact English, where every word was signed. Other districts may use American Sign Language, which is conceptual signing more so than exact words. Other accommodations are also made for the hearing impaired in our classrooms. Foreign languages are encouraged, but not required for high school graduation the way they were thirty some years ago. They had even quit requiring foreign language before I graduated in '71. The question about sign language being universal is one I asked the sign language interpreter myself. No, it is not. ASL is used by the American English speaking community, generally, but a deaf person who speaks Spanish would not have the same signs. I would love to learn more sign language, either SEE or ASL because I find them beautiful and expressive. I also think that two years of a second language should be required for high school graduation.


myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

Hi Garden! Your response was an education for me here. I didn't know that they had stopped requiring that in order to go on to college. I know that where I am that it is a requirement in the middle school because I had one daughter that really struggled with her French and wanted to drop it for another course and it wasn't allowed. They told her the only ones that were not required to take it were the kids that were coded. Thank you for asking whether or not it was universal. I was so clueless on this. Very interesting. Beyond helping us communicate with the deaf, knowing sign language could be so useful for other things. People that have been injured or sick and can't talk, communicating with someone in a loud place or a place where we should be quiet. I would love to learn it. Thanks Garden for the very informative response!happy


myLot reputation of 99/100. GardenGerty (35334)   ranked 27 out of 32,950 in life  2 years ago

Hi, Sid, I often think I should get out some books and study up, as I like sign language as a part of worship. I love how singing looks when signed. I think more colleges should require a second language for entry. Even if we do not use the language, it helps us not be so self centered but more able to see the world as others do.

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4. myLot reputation of 39/100. kingblack147 (124)   3 years ago

hmm I;m not quite sure because while it seems certainly kind to learn sign language, I guess to some or most it just does not seem very practical to do so I mean for example a lot of jobs are hiring people who are proficient in spanish or another language that is encountered quite frequently in their region like french or german. that is because of the volume of people who speak only that language that need help when it comes to buisness or transactions. for example many jobs deal with phone calls a company would feel they woule waste a lot of money or resources to hire someone who does know sign language and pay them more than a worker who knows only one language if only 50 customers a year come to that company who only communicate through sign language in their eyes it may seem like they are paying you extra for something that you barely do on a daily basis. but i believe it should be an option for those who want to take it.


myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

Hi Kingblack,

I'm not saying that we should not learn spanish and french. I think that sign language should be taught in the schools as well.

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5. myLot reputation of 82/100. wonttakelong (2227)   ranked 3,655 out of 32,950 in life   3 years ago

I would first like to say that deaf does NOT equal dumb
it is wrong to assume that or call them "deaf/dumb"they are hearing impaired and no different than you or I intellectually
I do agree however that American sign should be offered as a second language course option


myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

Hi wonttakelong,

I did not mean it in the way that you took it at all. I know well that they are perfectly as intelligent and intellectual as we are. I am old and the word "dumb" back in my day did NOT mean unintelligent. It means unable to speak and that was the term they used for the deaf and mute. Now mute is used more often. I would never ever ever imply that a deaf person was stupid. Please look it up....dumb really does mean unable to speak. I usually use the word mute too just for this reason.


myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

Ok this is really bothering me. Please please do look this up. I would NEVER insult a deaf person this way. I meant the word with it's original meaning. Geez...I started this discussion in main part on defense for the deaf people. Why would I ever insult their intelligence? I have an anxiety disorder and so does one of my girls that is called "Selective Mute". I am very sensitive to the inability to communicate vocally. Advocating my daughter in the school system is actually what caused me to wonder just why they don't teach this in school.


myLot reputation of 75/100. sulynsi (691)   ranked 2,802 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

Poor sid! I kind of cringed for you when I first read your post, knowing you'd get someone who'd pick up on the word 'dumb" and comment on it.

As with many words, meanings have gone from descriptive to denigrating. A notable example is the term "midget" which I kind of thought was almost affectionate in its tone. However, to persons of short stature, which is the current vogue terminology, it is highly offensive. Oddly enough, dwarfism, which is a description of a medical condition, doesn't hold the same taboo. To me, the SOUND of THAT word is far more unpleasant, and I would never use it. I'd rather struggle with the latin term.

I didn't comment because having read your other posts in the past, I was well aware that you meant no disrespect or unkindness by use of the word, it was simply one you were more familiar with.


myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

hi sulynsi,

I expected it. As soon as I re-read my wording I thought to myself that this was going to be misunderstood. All my growing up that was how it was said and that is what they referred Helen Keller as. I am aware that it isn't a term used so much anymore but there is no way to edit here. Oh well, just a little misunderstanding. It happens. I didn't know that about the word midget and you are right, I also think it sounds nicer than dwarfism. go figure.

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6. myLot reputation of 92/100. RachelleNH (880)   ranked 7,209 out of 32,950 in life   3 years ago

My daughter is in 6th grade now and has never taken spanish yet. She's kinda learning on her own as there are so many hispanics where we're at. I think maybe the reason signing is not as popular or required is because there are few students who are deaf/mute, etc. I think it's a good thing to learn though!


myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

I think even if you don't know a deaf person that it would be good to know. You just never know when you'll encounter one and it sure would make their world easier if everyone could communicate with them. It has to be frustrating for them. They learn sign language to communicate with family and teachers etc but not the rest of the people in their world?

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7. myLot reputation of 93/100. cherishxbunny (1423)   3 years ago

I 110% agree with you. I didn't learn sign language in school. I learned it from my grandma because she was a teacher for the deaf youth and thought it was important that we do learn. What's odd is they did teach us braille (which I can't remember much of!), but they didn't teach us sign language in elementary or any grade and I DO think it's an important thing for people to know. Maybe some might disagree, but imagine the situation where you have a job as a cashier and someone is deaf and trying to communicate with you or if they're having an emergency, trying to help you and you don't understand it or they're trying to warn you of something. You never know. Unfortunately for me, as much as my grandma taught me when I was little....I'm going to have to re-educate myself on it because I forgot what feels like all of it, when in reality I still remember some, but not enough. Thank you for posting this. I'm in the library. I'm getting books & CD's on sign language as soon as I logoff because you reminded me to by posting this discussion. happy

Although...one thing, I'm in the States, in Texas and French isn't a required course where I went to school? Spanish wasn't either. It was an elective for us, but I did choose it! It was so much fun. We even got to eat candy from Mexico that our Spanish teacher brought us. This was before my mom met my (step)dad who is from Mexico! Those classes came in handy! Anyway, neither were required back then. Then again, the times may have changed. happy


myLot reputation of 93/100. cherishxbunny (1423)  3 years ago

Oops, I meant trying to get you to help them, not trying to help you - but that counts!!


myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

HI Cherishxbunny,

So true. So many situations where this would be such a good tool. Also for the people that are deaf...why should they go to a special school to learn how to communicate amongst themselves and then they get in the real world and so many people have no idea how to communicate with them? Why should they have to have interpreters?


myLot reputation of 93/100. cherishxbunny (1423)  3 years ago

I'm not sure. =\

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8. myLot reputation of 93/100. artistry (1857)   ranked 651 out of 32,950 in life   3 years ago

...Hu there sid, Hope you are doing well. I think that is a great idea. I don't know about it being a second language though, but make it available. I do think they would be hard pressed to find teachers for the classes. But if they started it, it would grow, I would think. The deaf and dumb, I hate that phrase, need lobbyists for their causes as well. Let's hope that the classes will be incorporated in the future. Take care. Have a good week-end.


myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

Hi artistry,

I hate that phrase too but I grew up with it and it just came out automatically. If you read thru the above comments you will see that off course, someone got offended understandably because of how that word is usually used. I do think they should actually incorporate it into the grade school. It isn't universal I discovered from another post here. Maybe while teaching second languages they should incorporate it in for those languages. Seriously, Why should the deaf people not have access to communicating with us?


myLot reputation of 93/100. artistry (1857)   ranked 651 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

...Hi again sid, I don't see any reason forpeople in the discussion to get upset over the word usage. It has been used to denote not being able to speak in our society and others as well perhaps. But those who cannot speak are certainly not "dumb" as in smart or dumb. So the negative reaction is off base in a way. Non-speaking should perhaps be substituted for dumb? Also I was in no way referring to your usage of the phrase, I was just speaking of the societal use of it. We need not as individuals with divergent thoughts get too sensitive, speaking of those who were upset, over a phrase that should be changed to reflect what is reality. A person who cannot speak should not be called "dumb" in my opinion. No one for that matter should be called dumb, because they have something smart about themselves somewhere. But that's another subject. Forgive my rambling. "o) Take it easy.


myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

Hi artistry,

I didn't take your use of the word as that you were referring to mine. I actually agree that it is not a nice sounding word to use in reference to mute people considering the other meaning that it has.I don't think it was ever meant as a reference to their intelligence but the word itself came to be an insulting word. It originally meant lacking speech. I was not offended that someone misunderstood what I meant. She is a friend and I felt bad as I don't want her thinking that I meant it the way that she took it. I didn't at all. happy


myLot reputation of 99/100. GardenGerty (35334)   ranked 27 out of 32,950 in life  2 years ago

Just think, if we could have signed that phrase we would have a better understanding. We could say "hearing and language impaired". If I were to choose which signing class was taught in school, it would probably be ASL over SEE because it is more compact, or succinct. I had never heard of SEE until I worked in that class.

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9. myLot reputation of 91/100. AcousticSoul (736)   ranked 2,867 out of 32,950 in life   3 years ago

I don't think learning sign language is needed as much. its on a needed basis for example I don't know anyone who is deaf or blind to do sign language with, yet I do live in a area which is consumed with allot of spanish speaking people, and knowing how to speak it will enable me to apply for certain jobs that pay well. Yet those who know people with those disabilities do have the option to learn so they can communicate with loved ones and so on


myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

I would imagine if you were mute then you may wish that more people knew sign language. These people struggle to communicate everywhere they go because no one knows how to communicate with them. Sure, they can communicate with their family and close friends. That's about it. I'm a clerk in a store. Do you have any idea what it is like trying to figure out what they want for cigarettes or lord forbid they need directions. Just to get me to understand that they need paper and pen ...it isn't fair.

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10. myLot reputation of 98/100. liquorice (1979)   ranked 3,489 out of 32,950 in life   3 years ago

Yes, that's a good idea. Here kids have to learn a second language in secondary(/high) school until the age of 14, then they can choose whether to continue with it after this. A second language is also taught in a lot of primary/(elementary) schools. When I was at school the first foreign language that you learnt was French, and then German, but now Spanish seems to be increasing in popularity (maybe because of the popularity of Dora the Explorer, lol!)

I think it would be great if sign language was included as one of the language options. A lot of kids TV programmes teach signs, in the same way that you would teach children letters and new words, so it's certainly growing in popularity anyway. It would be a great step towards integrating deaf children into mainstream schools if other children in the mainstream school could communicate with them.


myLot reputation of 97/100. sid556 (18642)   ranked 112 out of 32,950 in life  3 years ago

Hi liquorice,

Yes I think it would be a step forward if kids were taught this at a young age. The deaf now are in special schools or as someone above mentioned, they have an interpreter. They are not always going to be in school. Just seems that it would make life easier for them if more people could communicate with them.

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