Nearly 4M to pay health insurance fine by 2016  

The subsidies fall short. They knew it when they did it that they would fall short and people would fall through the cracks. But they wanted to keep costs down so they let them fall through.

Thats why I posted the story from msnbc. I didnt want every body to say that Fox is biased so it isnt true.
I think the subsidies they are referring to would be the Corn husker kickback, louisiana purchase, etc.

Well, that stinks. Maybe the lack of subsidies will help defeat the mandate in court.

Lets hope so Spalladino. Not only is the mandate unconstituational. But because the bill failed to keep people from falling through the cracks...I think it is unethical.
the voted for the bill WITH the mandate knowing people would fall through the cracks. that is beyond wrong. If they could not close the gap...they should have taken the mandate out.

I agree with you. Although I am in favor of healthcare reform, I've never supported the mandate because, yes, it is uncostitutional. I don't want this bill to make things worse for anyone.

You know, they say it isnt perfect but really? That mandate will be catastrophic for a lot of people.

The fines on the mandates are adjusted by income..

This was not the perfect fix but it was a beginning. I am trying to figure out why the public option was such a heated idea, it works in many country's and would have solved more of these problems.

Oh, I forgot, the insurance companies did not like the publis idea. Money, money , money.

No actually alot of tax paying citizens did not like the public option. I am not big on Government holding a monopoly.

Change we can believe in??

part of me wants to think they are doing it on purpose so they can get the fine money.

well yes. They have to have revenue to pay for there pork. This is one of the ways they plan to pay for the reform. They made no bones about that.

lol you should have told her that yes he was.

randyloversdar. I am 60, hubby 61 and he is on Social Security disability and is allowed to make up to $920 with part time work as he feels up to do it each month. He works about 6- 8 days a month to help suppliment what his SSD does not cover. It is still not enough. I have Fibromyalgia and severe arthritis and a homemaker for 40 years. We can't even buy food. My daughter helps with food for us and I baby sit for her. Other wise we would not even have enough to eat as the food bank gives us what they feel is adequate for a month but in reality is is enough for about a week and a half and much of it I can't eat due to dietary restrictions. We too have a mortgage and with insurance and taxes going up we are paying more. I have no health insurance and cannot afford it. Nor can I get any mediare because hubby works those few days a month so we can afford to pay the utilities and mortgage and keep the car licensed and gas, oil and tires on it. We live rural 20 miles out. He has to have satellite connection for his work as all jobs now are obtained via the computer. No computer no work. Same for a cell phone. So we must have those things. We don't have t.v or newspaper or magazines and we don't go out to eat unless invited and we don't have to pay. I had to get a tooth fixed a few days ago it broke so went to the community college as it is only $65 and I hurt my knee pulled ligaments this past weekend but no doctor, just rest, ice, heat and using crutches we got years ago at a yard sale. We make do and do without. This plan they have is unconstitutinal because it is going to make people criminals that are poor and fall between the cracks and thus create debtors prison like in Merry Ole England before the American Revolution. Many who were criminals in England were just poor people who could not pay their taxes or bills. They were thrown in prison and eventually shipped to the colonies like United States, Canada and Australia. So we have about come full circle and so much for our laws. This is why lawsuits are being filed by the states and tea parties are being formed and the government is training special forces for what they know is planned to be incited riots for mob control and so martial law can be declared it is all part of the plan. When this is done we have a dictator ship not a free nation. It is coming. Some say as early as this fall and if not then by the 2012 elections.

But it is MY choice if I want to purchase health care. If I want to spend my money on cars, it is MY money therefore MY choice.

I have not bought a new car ever in my life of being married 40 years and not even a second or third hand one in ten years. My clothes are second and third hand, freecycle, yard sale or thrift shop or given by friends. We get $1100 per month, $620 goes to mortgage, daughter buys our food for my babysitting for her. We have auto insurance, satellite internet connection and cell phone for hubby for his part time work so we can afford to keep paying our mortgage and electric bill and landline phone. Our cell phone does not work where we live but hubby has it in town as his work requires it and they require he has internet connection. After utilities, mortgage, phone and personal hygine, auto insurance, gas and oil and upkeep and tabs and $159 for hubbys student loans. We have about $100 left for either food, clothing or health care. We don't have one cent left for any luxury items and I know of others in the same boat and they are not driving new or even second hand cars or wearing new clothing or have new furniture or appliances or anything. Small children cost money, diapers, special food, they grow out of clothing and shoes fast and day care is expensive as well. You don't even have a clue k15682. Often employers insurance is higher than their budget allows with expenses. True the vehicle payments are rather higher than I would ever pay. I would dumb the costly car and find an ugly but reliable cheap car to drive. If they can afford to eat out and feed pets and go to movies, kids are in scouts or something then they are sure a lot better off than a lot of families I know with kids.

Will we still be able to blame Bush?

Not if Obama declares martial law first which may well happen

stepped in it did ya?

Yeah, I have some work to do, especially on my nephew...the youngest one. He calls everyday from NYC, where he lives, and I'm slowly working on him. He's turning out pretty good... Now, if I can get him to vote, routinely/regularly, based on all the issues. (Played golf today. It rained, sleeted, blew like crazy...and I played poorly. Had to come home and take a nap before my dinner company came over.)

I LOVE the beer on the golf course! er I mean I like golf!
Keep working on him. New York is looking at some serious problems!

How did you know I really go for the beer? To heck with the golf... Went and played golf again yesterday. Much nicer day and I played much better and it wasn't too cold to drink beer. Yeah, I tell my nephew the situation is bad and he can't count on state aide. He knows it and is going to go to school this fall. He's not going to finish college, like I would like him to, but he's going to go to hair and make-up school (Aveda). It's an honest living, so I'm encouraging him to do it. He's always been interested in the arts -- fashion, make-up, graphic arts, etc. So I'm telling him to go for it.

he should go for it! He is in a good place for that!
regarding golf - you gotta love the golf carts too! You get to drink and drive and nobody gets hurt!
I do not have a membership, but I have a "friend" who is the sales manager at our stuffiest club here!

I don't know about that...I've seen people fall out of the cart leaning over to pick up a ball. Not me of course. I'm too short to reach...I always have to get out to get my ball. What are your plans for this beautiful Sunday morning?

I am short as well but can definitely see me still trying and falling! Lmao!
I was only on here a short time Sunday, went to church, got my orders from the youth pastor! (he has decided that I am the worker bee) then spent the rest of the day with family. We watched movies and I did my wonderful Muhammed drawing! Now heres MOnday...

I hope we get to see it before you send it off. It'll probably win a Pulitzer.

lmao! I did mention two weeks of art class?

Lots of people have won Pulitzer's with their first photos, plays...you just never know!

Thank you so much for your vote of confidence!

I am still waiting for him to buy my gas for my car....
This will only get messier. I wanted to post this for the people that supported the bill. I specifically picked a liberal site to get my link so they couldnt claim Fix bias.

Sounds like a big invitation for famine, pestilance and disease to come in.

Cant wait to be sitting in a jail cell telling the drug addict beside me that I am in for not having health insurance.

And to add insult to injury Obama wants to give amnisty to several million ILLEGAL aliens. Who get lots of freebies and we get to pay for their health care too. Oh wait I will probably be in jail with you. Where they gonna put us all the jails are already full, you can fine people but how do you collect something someone doesn't have. I don't think they have at all realized how stupid this is and is not going to work. Maybe we will all be rounded up and put in concentration camps. Then they can force needles on us and pills down our throats and monitor us day and night.

If it is against your religion, your are exempt. I was thinking about starting my own! or becoming Amish - I could do it!

there is your redistribution at work! how do you like your hope and change?

I would like to know why you think we don't have a middle class EvanHunter. I know we do I hear this all the time from people that make $40,000, $50,000 and up who have decent cars, can afford to buy food, have a college fund for their kids, nice furniture and if they are over extended on credit it is because they let greed not need control their finances. I also know many struggling with children after health problem set in or job loss and have not worked for 2-3 or 5 years or only sporadically living on under $20,000 and barely surviving or moving in with family to make it. Then you have those who make over $100,000 or better, Yes there is a middle class. I am tired of middle class people whining and say there is not one when obviously there is. I see lots of people still driving nice new shiny cars and shopping like no tomorrow and going on nice vacations. They are not rich but they sure the heck are middle class. While those who are truly poor but not homeless, make do, do without and vacation is a trip to a nearby lake to swim or fish and picnic on tuna sandwiches. The kids fish, the parents don't they just help bait the hook and stand nearby because they cannot afford a license. They go to the library to check out videos because they cannot afford to go to the cinama or even buy or rent a dvd, Eating out is a rare treat usually when someone else invites them to eat out and pays and birthdays are dollar store, hand made or regifted handed down toys or yard sale items. Do NOT tell me there is no middle class and some of the poor fall between the cracks they make a couple dollars too much to get help from assistance but not enough to buy their own insurance or have any health care. I know personally people from both classes of people and that does NOT count the homeless who choose to be and are drug addicts or alcholics but worse it does not count the new homeless who have children, lost their job, lost their rental home and live out of cars, tents or family is split up among shelters and at least one parent working at a McDonalds paying mininmum wage but not enough to get a rental with, rents have soared and aced many literally out of their homes and some lost their home they were buying and can't afford to rent either. So there is a middle selfish class who pretends that there is not one but they do not want to help others so they insist there is no middle class and it is a lie. These same people jump on the band wagon to donate dollars to other countries like Haiti or Chili after an earthquake or other places but turn their noses up the plight of their neighbors and fellow citizens at home on American shores and I am not talking about illegal immigrants who get a lot of freebies. America is broken because of greed, selfishness and indifference not to mention immorality and godlessness

Sure we have lots of stuff but how much debt do we have and how much of that stuff do we actually own not whats just owned by the bank? 30 years ago you could pay for a car in less than 3 years, 20 years ago 4-5 years, now we are up to 7 years to pay for the new vehicle you buy that wont even last the full warranty that's on the vehicle. Most every problem you have pointed out is caused by upper class. Only 6% of the population makes over 100k a year in the untied states, the average family income has been less since 2000. The trade deficit with china and NAFTA will put an end to the middle class its only a matter of time. There is no way that American workers can compete with billions of people who are literally working for slave labor. If you don't think that there is a organized plan to destroy the middle class than do the research yourself on incomes and cost of living over the past 10-30 years . Or maybe you are one of those people that think that well prices will drop when we Americans work for less, since 2000 we have worked for less and prices on vehicles, housing and food have still risen. As the old saying goes the poor get poorer and the rich get richer, "middle class" is just term for a numbers racket so people don't wake up and realize how we are getting ripped off by the rich and elite. Ever wonder why the definition of low income/poor has barely risen in income when inflation and cost of living has grown by leaps and bounds? Its to make us think we are doing alright when in reality they are sticking it to us. Not to mention to make the same income both parents now have to work compared to 50 years ago when most families were single income. Its not a question of what you have that you owe for its what do you have that you don't owe and in today's terms that's far less than 50 years ago.

It is a thin line to middle class. It takes one company to lay off and BAM you are not middle class anymore. The majority of the middle class is so overextended in credit now, that one or two months and they will lose their homes. People do not buy homes then stay, they take one mortgage after another, buy new cars every 5 years or less. My ex-husband constantly buys new stuff then put the old loans on his new ones. Can you imagine paying for a boat that you sold 5 years ago for less than you owed? That is just nuts! I do not get this mind set. I pay cash for everything. I paid off and canceled my credit cards ten years ago and now refuse all credit. I own my vehicle. I do have a very small mortgage that we will have paid in ten more years then thats it! So when the economy tanks, I do not have the problems others do. But to reiterate, the middle class is dangerously close to extinction.