Indian/American Indian/Native American Mascot Debate

Another Valid point made on this. With the term Redskins.. Was People hunted down our ancestors like they were Animals for their hides....

To understand that better, is the RedHolocaust... history..

- DNatureofDTrain

Please be nice.. I thought your statement was rude... When I post debate threads. I would hope that rudeness and personal attacks are left out of them. - DNatureofDTrain

I am thinking of School Spirit, and Team Playing Mascots. Now if Your school is all Native American 100% and based on Native Culture.. Then I do not see anything wrong with Native Mascots of that situation. But if its a school That is all White, using Native Mascots... Or all Native American using White people as mascots depicted like a sterotypical Redneck.. then people would be upset over that. However, in Native Cultures and Traditions, Many people do not realise how important the way they dressed, and danced for certain things is... So it goes deep into insulting Religion, Cultural Traditions, Family heirlooms, Etc..

No one wants to See their culture or heritage depicted in the wrong manner. Althought it is strange to get upset over cartoon character drawings to some... But the truth is people need to be more culturally aware.

Thanks all for responding.
- DNatureofDTrain

I Think it depends on how the cartoon is drawn. Some are pretty well done, and nice, others are not. I think if a person wants to represent themselves with a cartoon caracture or their own relatives, or culture. I have no problem with that. But we need to be very careful with crossing the lines of how we do cartoons, and images.. As it deeply offends, and wounds people in many ways.

I Have American Indian blood, and I know I am hurt often by the Blond Haired blue eyed sterotype. "There are no blond haired blue eyed Indians" Is one that was thrown into my face all growing up.. Which is not true. The issue with Mascots is they are using Sterotypes, and Exaggerating them, and mimicking Exaggerations at times of Sacred Rituals, and this is a no no.

However, this goes both ways.
My family and I were at powwows and Saw all These T-Shirts, and Stuff with Saying Bashing Custer, and demeaning Caracatures... My Dad then said... How come they can sell T-Shirts like that, but if we were to sell one with there warriors on it we'd get into deep crap? ... I said Dad, I don't know but I think it's wrong. People want to make people not use Mascots, or images from their culture, or caracatures, they should be respecting enough not to do the same to other cultures...

But I am also for freedom of speech, and art, etc... But I do feel very sad to see exaggerated sterotypes of any people....

- DNatureofDTrain

I used to always belief and think this myself. Until I realised the hurtful meanings these mascots portray to people, and how demeaning and negative the sterotypes can be as to misrespecting a culture.

If you look into history. Displaying Indian Heads Prior to Mascots used to be displayed, to remind people. That they would get paid to bring in Indians Dead or alive. So This reminds people of the Red Holocaust.

So doing this is just as hurtful as if a person displayed a Swastika with a Jewish name as their mascot. Most would never think of doing that they would not want to Be hurtful towards their culture either.

We had Redman for our mascot in a town I grew up in. I had no clue originally how hurtful to people this was, I was proud to see this Indian Head, and Little Indian Dancing graphic that people used to share with eachother in whispers... Later on it was brought up they did not like the Tomahawk on there it made them look to violant, and it was not good to make fun of Native Warriors... when the town was not making fun of Natives at all. Our locals deeply admired Native Americans, and most of the town has a mix of both European and Native ancestory...

So then they changed it it a Beautiful Indian Head with a headress, and still had the name Redmen.. Well... I stated.. Well lets keep Redmen, and drop the Indian head all together, and they could just Draw like a Red Devil or something, so it was not Native related...

But then I learned that the term Redmen itself was actually considered a serious racial slur.. to many I had talked to and after listening to this.. I understood.

Years ago they used to Hunt Natives just like they do animals, and they called them Red skins refering to them as being animals, or Red Men ... As lesser than humans people would pay for their hides, just like they did animal hides.

I found out that they used to stuff Natives and display them in museums like they do to animals.

So this is why the words Redmen, and Redskin, are seen as not honoring but as degrading.

Then we had Mascots that would do fake Indian Dances or Native American Dances at the games... Well in the Native culture to many their dances are not just a dance to look pretty and have fun, but a part of very serious cultural tradition, and it is seen as very very disrespectful to do their dances unless you have been taught how to do them, or invited to do so or learn...

Each dance has different meanings, and different purposes, Not all dances are done the same way and are meant for everyone... So a It is just as bad as if a person decides they are going to Serve whine and bread, at a foot game if their mascot was Saints.. Now I do not think any church on the face of this earth would go for that example.

And I am not using this examples to degrade people. I am using them to show different equivalents of how people feel on these issues.

I believe that if a mascot was designed in cooperation and approved by certain natives.. To honor a person of their culture, and done in a way that is not exaggeration sterotyptical looks like. Making the Nose bigger than it should be, or making sterotypical traits exaggerated... Then it should be alright.

But for many.. Sitting at game with Native Mascots, Seeing the head displayed all over and watching people wave around fake Tomahawks can be very humilation and degrading to a person that was invited to the game, who is an outsider... Who is Native... Just very demeaning.. to watch someone doing what those around you are claiming is a true authetic native Dance, from your culture, and you look down to see this person hopping around and not doing anything native, Not even dressed authetnically other than a few sterotypes.

For many cultures it's not a big deal to see people dressed like a mascot of their culture and tradition.

However, in certain cultures, Images, and uses of their traditions can be very very insulting.

I have Met Many Natives who are personally insulted by this, and I have met others who do not care at all, and say well its not that bad. Most who I have met that say its not that bed, Are not aware of why this is seen as bad.. until after they learn of it.

Many When they think of the Red Holocaust they think of the Trail of Trails and that's it...

What has happened, was just as bad as even worse.. and is no better than any other type of abuse or degradation of humanity...

To many like it used to be to me. I looked at our home towns mascot, and I did so with pride and love, and respect... I even have personally served as the local mascot a couple of times.... I suggested to drop the headress and design a new picture that was non native...

Others suggested drop the name...

Well our little town went from Milton Redmen, to Milton Redhawks, it has a little flying red tailed hawk . and No longer is any Native Imagery displayed along with this. So it is okay by me... However the way the town did the change, was very hurtful towards the town, and they were very mean to the study body, and community with this... They snuck around behind the communities back and voted to change it against the community, involvement.

I feel if a community is very respectful towards the culture, and is not allowing any disrepect in the student body, or members at the games. As Our community did, they even fixed their mascot so it looked more decent.. I had no problem with how the little town of Milton, Used to do this, as all the time I went to school there. I may have been targetted and harassed for everything about me. But one thing no one had ever harassed me about was my Native Heritage.. Other than I ran against that stupid Blond haire blue eyed sterotype.. I have dutch and Irish heritage too. I personally do not like those fighting Irish mascots.. but I am not one who is going to run around and tell people to change their mascots...

However, When it comes to mascots a mascot should respresent their town, their pride, their own history. Not someone elses... That is how I feel about it in the end.

- DNatureofDTrain

To one person displaying the Swastika is displaying a sacred symbol of their own heritage, and to another they are offend of it fearing that the symbol is representing Hitler and the holocaust.. any type of Holocaust is bad, However the context in how the symbol is being used and the reason is it being displayed needs to be taking in proper consideration....

Pirates can be offending... To people who are against stealing and theft.

Sharks can be offending to Animals Rights activists.

No one likes to watch people sell another persons culture for money making...

Just advertising and money making along can be offending to a person who believes in living in a free and giving society..

So it depends on how you look at it everything can be offending to someone. Our speaking our personal views, thoughts, and beliefs on this topic can be offending to people who do not like the right of free speech.

Thanks For sharing your views. Take care,

- DNatureofDTrain

related resource: personal care

I still am on both sides of this issue. To me it depends on what the mascot looks like, how they a presenting it, if they are mocking spirituality or not in the use of it, if they are being respectful in their uses of it...

Thanks for Sharing,
- DNatureofDTrain