Everyday I am slowly becoming more convinced there is nothing worth dying for!

ps - there is no greater gift then the gift of life....

I know what happens after I die - the end of whatever the definition of "me" is . But Jakker, as humans we need to comfort ourselves that we place certain VALUES like dignity and justice ABOVE the joys, ambitions, desires of life . Isnt that what ultimately divides us from the beast? Should we be divided from the beast AT ALL?

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

Wilfred Owen

all the best urban

Thanks urban, great poem . Dulce et decorum est= sweet and honorable it is, pro patria morir= to die for one's country . Right?

Yes, check out the whole poem

all the best urban,

http://www.english.emory.... the best urban

Thanks urban. I appreciate your kindness to leave us the link.

I had to choose Urban's answer, I just loved the poem he cited . I will continue reading it, it deserves to be memorized . The Latin part I could not forget, maybe because of some musical quality in Latin that makes it easier to remember . Or more likely because it is only a short part of the whole thing hahaha . Anyway thanks, the idea of the poem is close to what I felt like saying, I meant sacrificing life for ANY idea or belief in general, not just defending one's country .
While I am writing this, I feel like a coward and a traitor, yet I wonder if avoiding those same categorizations might be the REAL motive behind the actions of any soldier who ever marched to his death . Or the immature hunger for GLORY that is synonymous with youth .
Of course fighting to PRESERVE life is understandable and normal, however I don't think that is a factor in ALL fights and sacrifices .
Thank you urban and redyellowblack and all others for your feedback, it is really appreciated .

Hello, red! I understand from your responce that you think I meant (to die for Allah) and (Jihad) . Well that is not the call for sacrifice I was talking about, it is rather the more common idea that it is worth dying for one's family and loved one's and beliefs . That is what I meant when I said it's scary to realize that there actually is no meaning to sacrifice . I will try to colect my thoughts and continue explaining .
I certainly would like to get an opportunity to show you and others what people here are REALLY like, because if you think there are so many people here that are genuinely ready to die for Allah or anyone else for that matter, you don't know the people here . People like to FANTASIZE about dying for ALLAH, dying for honor, etc etc of romantic notions . Actually nobody can afford to . Actually most of their energies are directed at surviving in a decadent corrupt society, the average citizen here invests too much to save his own neck to have anything left to volunteer to honorable or charitable or religious pursuits . Of course there are the losers, like there are in every society, who like to tie their own personal tragedies to GODS and HEAVENS and ANGELS and RIGHT and WRONG and JUSTICE and INJUSTICE etc Misery loves company as they say, some people choose the company of imaginary heroes of religion and sacrifice to numb the pain . It all ultimately comes down to psychology and offer and demand, some times it is boring to contemplate .

shogunly,

Hello, again to you too. Thanks for the clarification. I should have realized you meant a rather complex situation.

You know, it occurs to me there is a fantastic book about life, philosophy, politics, and religion residing in your mind somewhere.

Of course, you could end up like Salmon Rushdie.

Everyone seems to be under the impression I am referring to "Jihad" or dying in religious fight . I'm not . I am talking about the whole idea that some PRINCIPLES or VALUES take precedence over self-preservation .

There is no reference to Jihad or any other Islamic thing here.

Perhaps I need to improve my written communication skills, because that is what I think I am speaking about.

Anyway.. Cheers!

coffeechat,

What a link you found for this thread. It is great! I book marked it. Thanks.

I am glad you found the Goodson link of value.

I thoroughly enjoyed reading it - written eloquently by an ordinary person (ok there are shades of Thoreau in there) but a very sincere and eloquent piece.

Unfortunately Shogunly who could benefit from it fails to see the value.

Cheers!