Engineers of Jihad
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
United States
March 9, 2008 9:37am CST
An extremely prestigious world renowned university has had published a sociological paper concerning the fact that an unusually high percentage of radical violent Islamists are trained engineers.
The study explores why this might be so.
Here's an article about the paper.
http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=206902291
Here's the paper itself. It is 90 pages and in pdf format. It is rather dry, but the last 20 pages or so are really worth the time and effort required to understand.
http://www.nuff.ox.ac.uk/users/gambetta/Engineers%20of%20Jihad.pdf
In my opinion, what the authors are saying is that this phenomona of over representation of engineers in violent jihad is a result of a complex interaction. It is caused by a combination of a special 'engineering mindset', lack of opportunity to work in their trained field, resentment of how their own countries are too backward to provide high tech jobs, and a deep inward subconsious realization that about which they are the most devout, Islam, itself is a large part of their problem with lack of opportunity and backwardness of their countries. All of this can combine in some people to produce a violent striking out. Fortunately, only a very small percentage of Islamic engineers are so affected as is pointed out in the study.
Even if you only read the article and not the study, it is worth the effort.
What do you think of this study?
3 people like this
5 responses
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
9 Mar 08
Hello Red,
Wow! I haven't even gotten to the study, yet I'm not at all surprised to read the egocentric, defensive responses of those members of the Engineering field who have been quoted in the article.
For 'minds of science', I would think that more engineers would be objectively inquisitive about this correlative link. 44% of those studied is a significant percentage.
While I agree that the sampling was rather small, I also acknowlege that finding terrorists, who are willing to discuss their personal backgrounds, may not be a cakewalk of a task. Lest we forget that terrorists, by nature, must maintain anonymity, else be identified and 'dealt with'.
I will say that although it comes as no surprise that it is as it is, I do find it remarkable, and shocking that those who have pursued medical training would later take up terrorist actions. What ever happened to the Hypocratic Oath?
"... certain cognitive traits common to engineers, combined with the difficulties they face in Islamic countries--is the most likely explanation of the phenomenon of engineering overrepresentation, Hertog said."
The above quote makes sense to me. Engineering is a long and challenging academic pursuit. It also demands a level of intellect and capacity for reason that is not required of many other disciplines. It seems reasonable to me that Engineering students, who give it their all during school, then get out into the working world to find that their employment opportunities are limited -- would result in Engineering Grads who commit themselves, albeit angrily, to an effort to re-structure the basic structure of society.
Hmmm, I just had an interesting thought: Civil and electrical engineering are the most frequent areas of study; which makes me wonder how many of those civil and electrical engineers take part in the civil restoration, after they blow up particular elements of the infrastructure???
From what I've read thus far, it would seem to me that the subjects of study aren't necessarily anarchists. Rather, it seems that perhaps their ultimate (albeit unconscious) goal may be to punish the backward society that provides them with little opportunity.
It also seems reasonable that they may believe that they can continue to embrace their desire to seek monistic/ simplistic solutions to problems, while also believing that they are better equipped than their predecessors to shape society in such a way as to provide better opportunities for their engineering brethren, and maintain a commitment to Islam. If there's any truth to this observation, then I would add that over-inflated ego is playing far to much of a role in their cognitive thought processes.
It sounds as though the underlying fuel may be anger at not being better rewarded for their attributes and adacemic efforts. Which, sounds to me like none other than inappropriate infantile temper tantrums. So, perhaps the next correlative link to study is: under-developed emotional health, and mathematical/scientific pre-dispositions.
2 people like this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
9 Mar 08
You too could be a famous Oxford sociologist with a published study talked about around the world. I like your explanation better as it makes more sense, is easier to understand, but is saying essentially the same thing.
I think you will enjoy the study after you get past the justifying numbers and data. To publish such controvertial results the author really had to back up his hypothesis. This information is essential though boring.
3 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
10 Mar 08
Thanks Red,
I have the study linked, and will absolutely review the data, and its summary. In fact, I'm really looking forward to it. I give the Oxford folks alot of credit for undertaking this statistical inquiry. Also, those Middle-Eastern engineers who have elected to consider the study, with objectivity are also deserving of alot of credit.
Oh, and thanks for the BR. It is appreciated!
2 people like this
@Adoniah (7512)
• United States
11 Mar 08
I see you have been very busy as usual while I have been out of the picture Red! You too Lady. I read part of the Literature and will read the rest when I have more time. I am still being stared at by moving boxes. They are insidious aren't they?
Shalom
1 person likes this

@uath13 (8192)
• United States
12 Mar 08
As someone who has a degree in engineering technologies & works in a company where the overpaid engineering staffs education consists of ( get this ) music , business, accounting & a G.E.D. You spend all that time , training & money & get nowhere while others who have no training ( or clue )are doing the job you trained for, I can perfectly understand the desire to blow something up.
It makes perfect sense.
Now where'd I put that timmer? 
It makes perfect sense.
Now where'd I put that timmer? 
2 people like this
@Netsbridge (3253)
• United States
18 Mar 08
Uath13, please, do not let the senselessness in the corporate world turn you into a walking time bomb! I know exactly what you are talking about! With all my academic background, abilities and skills, I have had to babysit, do dishes in hotels, chauffeured, etc. to earn some kind of income, seeing I am naturally very industrious and believe one must work in order to survive and be independent.
It is a very fuuny world we live in. You know, I have often tell people that the corporate world has almost no place for very intelligent and independent individuals, regardless of ones skills or potentials. However, if you are a blind crowd-follower who will kiss behinds and shoes, then you will have a job for life, regardless of knowledge, skills and/or performance!
@academic2 (7000)
• Uganda
12 Mar 08
Saying all muslim engineers have a propensity to be violent or even terrorists would be an over statement-but havng engineering skills plays neatly into the evil schemes of those terrorists who indoctrinate and use young moslims. They know these engineers can manipulate their ways much easily in this highly technologized world-that is why, in some instances, they go ahead to train them-remember the pilots who were used for the September 11 terror attack? I think, the real issue is, these terrorist do their selection criteria, and engineers seem to be the best candidate much sought after by the likes of osama.
@gewcew23 (8007)
• United States
9 Mar 08
Any military leader would tell you that engineers are hugh part of there success. Maybe Islamic terrorist groups understand the need to have trained engineers in there groups. Here is an interesting thought I came up with: Rich Islamic countries that reinvest their oil profits like the United Arab Emirates, or better know Dubai. You never hear of terrorist coming out of U.A.E.
2 people like this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
9 Mar 08
Perhaps, you should have been a sociologist. The author of the study made your exact same points!
2 people like this
@satkumar077 (180)
• India
10 Mar 08
By and large muslims around the world are docile and kind hearted people . The testament to this is the fact that the majority of the dictatorship rule is in islamic countries . But the downside of this the fact that they can be persuated to do anything in the name God . They manupilate the common muslim in the name of God for their own mean needs . They dont let the masses reason out their ideas .Certainly ALLAH didn't mean to hurt others in the name of faith . These educated engineers are no exception . These Extermist have a clever way to harvest these talented youths too . As every muslim is a devoted one, unlike inother religions, they put the credibility of these people in question with respect to their faith towards ALLAH, by playing this card any muslim can be subdued irrespective to his broad mindedness .
with regards
http://www.chocolatesavy.com
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
10 Mar 08
"Muslims around the world are docile and kind hearted people."
I believe this to be true. The problem (the same with all religions) is leaders who will take advantage of kind hearted naive, ignorant people. I'm including Christians, Jews, Muslims, and every other organized religion you care to mention. Organized religions of all kinds have been the tool of power hungry, selfish, manipulative, people who deserve to be ignored.
2 people like this





