Proof of God, Beyond Dispute.
@Chiang_Mai_boy (3882)
Thailand
May 18, 2008 8:27pm CST
I have proof of the existence of God. No one I have spoken to has been able to prove me wrong. It is supported by archaeological evidence and a book that is more than 2000 years old. How can anybody question this?
The book is the Iliad written by Homer. Well, we think it was written by Homer, although it was originally passed down through oral tradition. We do not have to rely strictly upon this book. There are other ancient writings that support what he said. The book discusses the activity of this God in the city of Troy. We all know the city of Troy was discovered in the 19th century. This provides the archaeological support for my belief.
The name of the God in question is Zeus. I have strong archaeological and written evidence of his existence. Can you prove me wrong?
5 people like this
12 responses
@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
19 May 08
Oh Schleimann... you mad, mad little archaeologist. He was obsessed with discovering the actual sites of places mentioned in the Illiad and the Odyssey.
Well anyway, lets get on to your so-called 'proof.'
How can anyone question this?
Are you being serious? My sarcasm radar is bleeping... but you can never be sure.
The Illiad was indeed based on stories passed on through oral tradition. You know what happens to stories passed on by word of mouth? They get distorted, they get changed to fit the audience, added to and bits are removed.
You want to use it as evidence? It's a piece of fiction, entertainment. Homer's bashing of the very idea of war, his rather unbiased depictions of the Trojans (and his beautiful characterisation of Priam) and of Helen, his portrayal of Achilles... it all came from Homer's attempts at showing that war (especially a protracted on) was wrong.
On top of that, Homer's archaeology was rubbish. His descriptions of armour, of weaponry (and possibly the ships and use of chariots by the Greeks, though I can't remember)... it doesn't fit what we know of warfare during this time period.
The book discusses the activity of this God in the city of Troy
Actually the poem describes the actions of many gods, demi-gods and humans in Troy.
We all know the city of Troy was discovered in the 19th century.
Actually, that archaeological Troy is legendary Troy is still hotly disputed. And Schliemann's methods were not exactly... to today's standards, lets say.
So, to use the poem (a work of poetic fictions) and the archaeological site (might not be legendary Troy) together; how does a person writing a piece of fiction about a city that we MIGHT have found prove that there is a god... any gods?
1 person likes this
@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
19 May 08
If the Illiad had been written as history
Then we would treat it much the same as we treat other classical historical works, like Herodotus and Theucydides; we would search out backing, in other written documents and from the archaeology, of what they said.
Of course we can never know exactly how much of what they wrote is true; so much has been lost, so much was never written down by others.
Either way, it wasn't written as history. I don't doubt Homer believed that what he was writing was based on historical characters and events. However, it's not written as a history but as a story.
So it's a mute point 
What separates myth from history
Myth is, I believe, based on historical events. Or, in the cases of foundation myths and creation myths, based on observations and what was at the time rational thought. For example; two birds look very similar but one is white and the other black. A person might think that perhaps the one did something to change it to that colour in the distant past (as is often the case for crows in South American legends). However, myth is an embellishment, myth is unproven by today's standards of science and investigation.
History can be 'proved' (to a degree, though much history is based purely on second hand accounts or biased accounts) whereas myth, legend and folklore can't, or can be disproved. However, if we find sufficient evidence to suggest that a myth is true then it becomes history.
As for the aliens; if we cannot find solid evidence it remains a theory, a legend as it cannot be proven or disproven.
What separates myth from history
Myth is, I believe, based on historical events. Or, in the cases of foundation myths and creation myths, based on observations and what was at the time rational thought. For example; two birds look very similar but one is white and the other black. A person might think that perhaps the one did something to change it to that colour in the distant past (as is often the case for crows in South American legends). However, myth is an embellishment, myth is unproven by today's standards of science and investigation.
History can be 'proved' (to a degree, though much history is based purely on second hand accounts or biased accounts) whereas myth, legend and folklore can't, or can be disproved. However, if we find sufficient evidence to suggest that a myth is true then it becomes history.
As for the aliens; if we cannot find solid evidence it remains a theory, a legend as it cannot be proven or disproven.@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
19 May 08
You have an uncanny ability to separate distinctly between the lines.
*tips cap* Why thank you.
But I wonder, how much oral tradition passed down to him influenced his writings.
Oh, undoubtedly a lot. The basic story and many of the set lines ("rosy-fingered dawn" etc) would have been basic components of any good minstrels repertoire.
As for the Deluge; I'll not deny the possibility of any event. As you've said before, there is talk now of a great meteor causing global tsunamis... it could very well have happened, but I don't know much about it at the moment.
So history becomes fable, and fable becomes myth.
Too true. We've lost so much knowledge, and invented so much more. One day I hope we'll discover the truth... but I don't think it will be for a very long time, and people's ingrained and immovable religious beliefs will forever be getting the way of this search.
@freethinkingagent (2501)
•
19 May 08
You have an uncanny ability to seperate distinctly between the lines. Ofcourse homer was speaking in metaphors, useing the myths of the gods. But I wonder how much oral tradition passed down to him influinced his writtings. The stories of Atlantis and such, as many civilizations seem to have this and the great flood inbedded in their phycies. Could the bibles flood, and Atlantis and other great flood stories share a common event so terrible that stories ment as warnings told to the next generations made their way to near anciant history?
Most people reading genisis about the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men would beleive this as a feary tale, or try to change the origanal translation to mean the sons of Adam took wives of the duaghters of Cain, and why would that produce "giants" and "men of renown of old", Isn't this story form the Akkadian the origenal story of the gods of Eygypt, Greece and Rome. For that fact the gods of the world, being that Sumer was the first ever kingdom? The gods and heros that homer wrote about sevral thousand years after Moses, who wrote about it sevral thousand years after the Akadian text. So history becomes fable, and fable becomes myth. And the retelling of the story thrugh time does get carried away, and takes on new stories that were never mentioned in the older ones.
1 person likes this
@freethinkingagent (2501)
•
19 May 08
Yes Zues existed, he is one of the many gods or "Sons of God" (bene Elohim) The bible states that there are 70 Elohim (plural) that ruled the nations, the nations were devided amoung them and Isriel was to be Gods inhariotence.
The hebrew word used the most for God is Elohim. Elohim when talking about the God is concidered singuler, Like the word Deer, Deer can mean one or more depending on how it is used. The word Elohim is a plural masculin noun, but if used in a definate article like Ha-Elohim, it speaks of YHVH, the God of Isriel,
Psalms 82 talks about the devine councle of God where god sets over the councle of the gods. Even though this sounds like polythiesm it realy isn't as only God is all powerfull and all knowing and so on, the other gods were created by God and his co creater.
The cocreater goes back way befor Christianity, God, Elohim or YHVH was invisable spirit, but the Son of God or realy "the unique Son of God" was not created, but was in essence at one with God being the visual manisfastaion of God. This is why in the Old Testement (read in Hebrew) that sometimes YHVH seemed to be talking to YHVH, Later when re-written in Aramaic the word 'Memra' meaning the Word would be placed infront of the manifistaion of YHVH rendering it 'the Word of the Lord' The word is also used in the new testment book by John as the greek LOGOS and saying that Jesus was the Memra Yhvh of the old testament.
So I beleive a being named Zeus, Who was one of the Elohim did come down to earth, and as the bible said had offspring wioth women, and also waged war against other Elohim and other nations like Troy. I know I will not be populer for this beleif, but who cares, it is not only writen in the Hebrew bible, but also the writeings in Ugarit, and the Akkadian text of Sumer and Babylon.
1 person likes this
@freethinkingagent (2501)
•
19 May 08
Yes only the God of Isriel is all powerful, as he created everything. He sees all , knows all. These other 'gods' in psalms 82, it says, literal hebrew translation. verse six "I have said you are gods (elohim), and all of you are sons of the most high (bene Elyon). 82:7 But you shall die like Adam, and fall like one of the shinning ones.
@vonkristoffer (833)
• Philippines
19 May 08
really bro.. but these are paganism right..? the only God who is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient etc.. is the God the Father, the son and the Holy spirit am i right?
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
19 May 08
My Question to you is, Which Gods are you referring to?
Vulcan, (Hephaestus) husband of Venus, God of the forge and fire.Or their son Aenaes who was a Trojan Hero? There were a Great Number of Gods at that time! Only God knows, and She isn't telling!
1 person likes this
@Chiang_Mai_boy (3882)
• Thailand
19 May 08
Truly there were a great number of Gods in that time. I tried to hold it down to one to avoid upsetting the Muslims.
@Ravenladyj (22902)
• United States
19 May 08
LOL yea thats what I was thinking...to me personally thats NOT proof at all..in fact its not much of anything really as far as Im concerned.
@twallace (2675)
• United States
19 May 08
Is there a link for me to read this information for myself. I'm not disagreeing with what you have said just would like to know more about it. Thanks
@ShardAerliss (1488)
•
19 May 08
Well, if you wiki Hisarlik or Troy, Illiad, Schliemann... you'll about have the basics. The evidence used is sound... the rationale behind using it as proof is not.
@vonkristoffer (833)
• Philippines
19 May 08
the Wikpedia stated about this book "one of two ancient Greek epic poems" how can you compare it to the Holy Bible which is the Word of God?
@freethinkingagent (2501)
•
19 May 08
Who in the heavens is like YHVH? Who can universe can compair to Jesus, the son of God?
@vonkristoffer (833)
• Philippines
19 May 08
yes it exist but is the god and godesses of the poem can compare to the God of the Holy Bible? :)
@Celanith (2327)
• United States
19 May 08
What the majority of the "Christian" society fails to understand is that indeed ther is ONE God Head, the primary God and there are other God's in fact God is a family. Job 1; tells of when Satan came among the other sons of God. He being one of them himself. Who are the others? Michael, Gabriel and Melchezideck who later became Jesus Christ. Roman and Greek and Vulcan's all have similar stories of God and lesser God's. Lucifer who became Satan the Devil. Jesus Christ
Zeus and Jupiter, Herecles who was the son of Zeus the head God, Jesus the son of God the head God. There is One supreme God and there are God's who are his sons and The bible says there is NO end to his kingdom it is on going. We too in turn should we choose and qualify will become sons of God and spiritual.
@freethinkingagent (2501)
•
19 May 08
Not only the 'sons of God' (Bene Elohim) but also the sons of thes gods, the Nephalim that were the product of these 'bene Elohim' and women.
Much in the bible has been deliberatly mistranslated to hide the fact of other Gods, As you say though there is One God over all the gods, 'Ha Elyon' Psalms 82 read in hebrew would turn peoples heads inside out if they truly understood about this.
One can only conclude that all thes gods did exist, and even Zues was alledged to have son from human women, the offspring of humans and gods were called heros in the greek. Simuler to what is mentioned in Genisis. Hurcules is one of the sons of Zues born from a mortal woman. The bible says "giants" but nephalim is more like 'those who came from above'
@systems (459)
• India
19 May 08
The Creation itself is the proof of Existance of God.
God is nothing but the Supreme Energy. Neither male nor Female.
I really dont know why bible mentions only sons of god. doesnt god have any daughters?????
Most of the religions Believe in Single Almighty. But other things which many religions claim are doubtful as they are mane made..
@runner0369 (641)
• United States
19 May 08
So true! The Baha'i Faith is the only religion I know which mentions the daughters of God, they are called Handmaidens of God in the Baha'i Writings. All the other religions have been so distorted by man that they are no longer really from God in my opinion. I mean, I believe they were originally based on messages from God, but those messages are no longer clear! And so many religions try to define God but God cannot be defined! God is energy not a being, God is not limited by physical constraints, that would not make sense! Anyway, my point is I totally agree.
@vikas4u (77)
• India
19 May 08
How can you be so sure that he was god even he existed at some point of time in the past. There were so many great persons existed in the past but they were not gods. I do believe the world is not man made. The life exist because of god but there is no need for him to take birth and live life as man. I believe in the present era also too much problems are there in the world ,so much people are dying , billions of people are suffering . When homer lived what was the population. Very little as compared to what we have today. But today we don't have god why? If you can answer this one simple question then only you will understand why god never came to earth. He never took birth. If you consider any religion from any part of the world. All have gods with different names. So i can say . Life is creation of some superpower name god.
@excellence7 (3698)
• Mauritius
20 May 08
For me, God is omnipresent...I trust in Him and I know He is present everywhere and even in us.
@poppy76bg (41)
• Bulgaria
19 May 08
Chiag_Mai_boy you are wrong but pray the Merciful and Grtacious God to forgive you. You can Imagine the God as Zeus. I hope that God will enlighten you and gives you mercy and grace to get to know Him as living. Remember one thing: Moses when saw the bourning bush he asked God who are You? What is your name? God said to Moses: I am who I am. This is my name. Daved the psalmist calls God Jehovah, hebrew: YHWH(yahweh).
@freethinkingagent (2501)
•
19 May 08
He never claimed that Zues was the God, but certainly was a god.
