Gays Vs. Christians Vs. The Bible

By JJ
@myklj999 (33984)
Olney, Illinois
August 24, 2008 9:50am CST
I'm going to go out on a limb here. Now, I haven't "studied" the Bible; I have read it a few times. I see a lot of Christians attacking Gays because they say the Bible says it is wrong. I have wondered though; does Jesus actually condemn homosexuality anywhere? Or are all the arguments against it based on the Old Testament? If the arguments are based on the Old Testament, then shouldn't those using these arguments follow all the teachings of it? Such as stoning people, and the rules of what foods not to eat, and so forth? It appears to me that many Christians are only choosing to use the parts of the Old Testament that support their dislike of Gays, but evidently think they don't have to pay attention to the rest of it. Does anyone care to enlighten me about any of this? Discussion now open for debate. As always, all opinions are welcome, and no one will be marked negative by me for simply disagreeing.
16 people like this
25 responses
@II2aTee (2559)
• United States
25 Aug 08
The only reason I am piping up here is to show support for my friend, Mykl. I have long since tired of discussing my lifestyle with bigots who know nothing of the love I share with my partner. As far as I am concerned, Christianity may be a very widely practiced religion, but it has caused more pain and suffering on this planet than good... all in the name of "God". I may have been a Christian if I had never met one. My friend Suspensful up above is a perfect example of how this religion corrupts the psyche of lesser willed indiviuals. People like her have taken the beautifull message of Jesus Christ and twisted it to become a haven of hatred and judgment. But I digress. I am not a Christian. Therefore I am as free from their doctrine as they are free from the doctrine of Islam. And that's the bottom line.
2 people like this
• Canada
26 Aug 08
I agree with you Tee, completely, 100%.
• United States
24 Aug 08
Myklj, you've really started something explosive! I'm not a Christian. I am Jewish, and glad to be. There is no God of hate among Jews or any other religion I know of. Some radical extremists exist who hide behind the teachings of God to justify their evil. Kabbalah isn't just a celebrity fad; I've studied it since birth, 61 years ago. Basically, as the Old Testament does, it teaches us to love one another and make the world a better place in every way we can. That includes accepting everyone as he or she is. In the Old Testament, one of the most beautiful stories is about homosexual love, and I hope this discussion doesn't get kicked off the Lot because I remind everyone of David and Jonathan. It is not God or Jesus or religious teachings that torment gay people; it is individuals who choose to be narrow-minded and condemn others. If you read the Old Testament and the books of Kabbalah, you will easily see that those who did the stoning were condemned for hurting those they stoned. The rules of Kashrut which determine what we may or may not eat are extremely flexible, and even the fasts are not to be observed by anyone who is ill or needs medication. Please read both the Old Testament and Kabbalah if you want to see that Jews are not the monsters some have made us out to be throughout history. You would also see, if you examined history, that the first places devoted to gays' worship was the synagogue. There are few "don'ts" in judaism, other than in the ten commandments. Instead, we believe in loving one another and being kind to all. Charity and education are the most important aspects of life to us, because we must support each other. When Cain asked, "Am I my brother's keeper?", God's reply to us all was a resounding YES! Nobody is to be shunned or excluded. Nobody is to be discriminated against. We must stand up against those who would wipe us off the planet, but we are toherwise accepting and peace-loving.
2 people like this
• United States
24 Aug 08
People have told me I'm dealing with obscure mminuteia. I'm so glad to know that's not the case!
1 person likes this
• United States
24 Aug 08
Romans 1.21 verse 26 of the Catholic Bible, and this is a small, tiny, little portion of the Bible, but it does not say that "God" is against homosexuality. The person who is responsible for writing this part of the Bible is not for it, but it never mentions "God" being anti-homosexual. "God" never spoke to this person about it. The person who wrote it says that it is "unnatural" and "a shameless act". I not defending the Bible here. I am with the LBGSA (Lesbian, Bi, Gay & Straight Alliance) community of this site. Jesus does not mention anything about being homosexual, but then again Jesus loves everyone no matter what according to the Bible. "Let he is without sin cast the first stone" and "Judge he lest he be judge" is what Jesus said, right Christians?
• United States
24 Aug 08
Oh, by the way, I am sick of having to defend the LBGSA community on this because I should not have to do this anymore. People need to get it through their thick skulls that homosexuals are just like everybody else. They are not different from the norm.
1 person likes this
@myklj999 (33984)
• Olney, Illinois
24 Aug 08
Well, I'm not part of the "community" you speak of; I am just someone who believes everyone has a right to love the gender of their choice and that it shouldn't matter to anyone else who they sleep with.
2 people like this
• United States
24 Aug 08
Well then actually you are, if you believe that everyone should love freely then you are a part of it. If you believe that people should be able to love whoever they fall in love with, then that means that are part of the LBGSA.
1 person likes this
@4aps777 (1528)
• United States
24 Aug 08
sin is sin,big or small sin is sin
1 person likes this
@Galena (9120)
25 Aug 08
so does that mean that judgeing someone for being gay is as bad as being gay, then?
2 people like this
@4aps777 (1528)
• United States
25 Aug 08
dont suppose to judge anyone
2 people like this
@Riptide (2761)
• United States
25 Aug 08
You raise some excellent points there. I think the answer is, that some christians love to hide behind god and the bible. They can justify their own dislikes that way, without comitting the sin of being judgemental. Because if you point out to them that they are being judgemental, they say "I am not, I am just quoting the bible, I am only following what god told us to do". Why are certain christians always up in everybodies business anyway? If it doesn't hurt them or have any affect on their life in any way, why worry about it? I know a lot of christians who are very tolerant and understanding, but unfortunately there are those select few who ruin it for all the others.
1 person likes this
@mommyboo (13197)
• United States
25 Aug 08
That is the same exact thing I have a problem with. I dislike people USING religion to hide behind and justify them hating or disagreeing with something or someone. I don't understand why they can't just hate or disagree and have it fall completely on them so they can be honestly judged by others for being hateful or judging. Somehow it is 'okay' to hate or judge if you have a religious reason, at least for the people who belong to that group. It isn't okay for people outside of it but the religious group feels like they are perfectly safe (and sane) in doing it. On to the second part - if God gave us all free will, why are so many people concerned with 'doing what God told us to do'? If it isn't your free will then what is it? That's kind of creepy actually when thought of that way.
2 people like this
@Pigglies (9336)
• United States
24 Aug 08
I think Christians are always picking and choosing about what parts of the Bible they follow. It seems like it is okay to follow whatever is convenient for them at the moment. There is a funny book though where some guy does try to follow every rule in the Bible. Some of the stuff in that book is crazy! I can't believe people still follow this ancient religion sometimes. I don't even think the Bible actually says anywhere that being gay is wrong though. People just love to interpret it however they want to go along with their agenda.
1 person likes this
@sid556 (30989)
• United States
25 Aug 08
Some christians should do a bit more research on the life of Jesus Christ. He was a human being and that can be documented. Also some modern scientific explanations to some of his "magic" can also be food for thought. Science was very primitive back in those days and people were quite gullible...oh heck...they still are. A great book for diverse thought is "The scriptures shattered". There are others but unfortunatly I don't recall their titles. Very interesting reading and logical also. There is no doubt that Jesus was a great man. He has had a huge impact on the world. He had deep insights and I do believe that it is possible that a higher power directed him. Jesus did not write the freaking bible tho and neither did God. The bible was written by a bunch of men and it has been translated (and probably wrong) and re-written to fit whatever whoever wants it to fit that it is an insane argument. Actually the bible is the most violent and sexually explicit piece of literature out there if one can actually follow it. it makes little sense.
1 person likes this
@soooobored (1187)
• United States
25 Aug 08
Sorry, I don't know anything about the bible! But I do know that I will never subscribe to a God that gives people desires, then tells them its a sin to fulfill them! It's just not for me.
1 person likes this
@shamsta19 (3225)
• United States
31 Aug 08
Okay this question is kind of two sided. For one any devout student of the Bible would of course condemn homosexuality as a sin. I have to agree with this. I do not judge anyone for their actions just happen to believe this is a sin in accordance to Biblical (and Qur'aanic) law. Now to address the second part of this question, are many Christians ignoring the rest of the laws placed therein? This is why I feel no one should judge others because if we were to go by all the laws in the Bible's Old Testament, We would never shave our beards, women would cover there heads, NO ONE would eat pork (or a slew of other foods listed as unclean), etc.. In fact there are 114 "laws" (or commandments) that are commonly ignored in modern society. To use religion in this argument becomes a touchy subject and those who take offense would respond the same. If we use the Bible as a source to condemn gays then we should be stoning adulterers also. Should it also not be a crime to kill your cheating wife/husband? The fact remains that the Bible does condemn homosexuality though. No offense meant to anyone but its in there clear as day. It also proves that homosexuality has existed since Biblical times and I suppose this dispute is as old as the Bible itself.
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
1 Sep 08
The bible does NOT condemn homosexuality. Man's interpretation of scripture does. So man condemns homosexuality. God does not.
@shamsta19 (3225)
• United States
2 Sep 08
No offense but are you homosexual? The only people I ever hear with that argument usually are in my experience. I am not judging anyone for their preferences, but I happen to believe the Bible does, however you interpret it.
@shamsta19 (3225)
• United States
3 Sep 08
So you believe people are born with a predisposition to be homosexual? I cannot agree with this statement as it is against the natural order of things. Find any other mammal in the world that practices homosexual tendencies. I am not trying to offend you either. I just can't agree one can be born homosexual, or the is some homosexual gene.
@starjmom (88)
• United States
25 Aug 08
You ask what Jesus says about the subject, so if Jesus IS God (which he is), then what is written in the old testament is still very important. Christ did not come to abolish the law (old testament) John 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments Jesus deferred to the will of the Father, we must do the same
• United States
25 Aug 08
How can somebody be one person and then be somebody else.... That don't happen... So there is no way Jesus is God..
• United States
25 Aug 08
Jesus most certainly said he was God. Look in the book of John and you will find: I and the Father are One He who has seen me has seen the Father. Jesus says when asked who he is - I AM, which you can also find in the Old Testament when Moses asks God what to tell the people when they ask who sent him. God says to tell them I AM sent you. I agree, you either believe the Bible is the inspired word of God or you don't. You can't pick and choose pieces to believe or interpret anyway you please. As for Jesus' claim to be God, it's there.
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
26 Aug 08
He also said the He would sit at the right hand of the Father. How could that be done if He and the Father were one and the same. Playing devil's advocate here.
1 person likes this
@wooitsmolly (3613)
• United States
16 Sep 08
I am The Bible and this discussion offends me.
@myklj999 (33984)
• Olney, Illinois
16 Sep 08
WOO!!! IT'S MOLLY!!!
1 person likes this
• United States
16 Sep 08
You know, if you don't stick to the topics... I'm going to have to report you to God.
1 person likes this
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
17 Sep 08
Molly, where have you been, girl? Good to see you.
@3cardmonte (5098)
25 Aug 08
I asked someone to tell me the other day where in the bible it says that homosexuality is a sin,oddly enough,no replies! Is anyone else tired of bigots hiding behind the bible in order to disguise or justify their ignorance? We live in a society that is not governed by the law of god,it is governed by the law of man.Take a look at the societys and countrys that are governed by the law of man and tell me which you would rather live in.
• United States
25 Aug 08
If you look back at my posts I have quoted from the Bible. What I find interesting about this discussion is it seems that you ask the question and then dispute the answer. If you are not a believer then why do you even care what the Bible says? If you are a believer than there is no seperation between the old and new testament. It is all the inspired word of God, start to finish, beginning to end. If you don't believe that the old and new testament go together then you are Jewish :) Orthodox Jewish people still follow the law to the T (hopefully minus the animal sacrifice :)) If you are homosexual why do you care what others say? If you have choosen that life then live it, you don't want others to put down your beliefs yet you seem to like putting others beliefs down. I'm not trying to stir up anything, just really don't understand it, with the utmost respect, honestly.
25 Aug 08
I care nothing about what the bible says,i am just tired of people hiding behind their religion in order to justify their narrow minded predjudices. I am neither christian nor catholic,nor jewish,hindu muslim or whatever. people are entitled to whatever opinions they may hold,they just need to have the courage to say that is what they think and not hide behind "the word of god".It does not matter to me if somebody else is gay as i am gay,live and let live
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
26 Aug 08
99.9 percent of gay people do not choose to be gay, Star. Even straight people who engage in homosexual behavior are not gay. Attracton is not a choice.
@Lee_Rites (845)
• United States
18 Oct 08
I believe that as a christian I can better serve God and society by passing judgment only on myself. There is much good that we can do and focusing on that would be more "christian". If God sees homosexuality as a sin, I am more than glad to leave the judgments and consequences up to him.
@ronaldinu (12439)
• Malta
16 Sep 08
Jesus has been crucified to save us from all our sins whether we are straight, gay or lesbian. We have to remember that psychology has made certain progress during the last decades. We can understand more the human nature and homosexuality. We have to distinguish between homosexuals and the act of homosexuality. Christianity does not have a problem with homosexuals but the problem is with homosexual acts
@cyntrow (8524)
• United States
16 Sep 08
So is it you ascertion that gay people should live lives without the love of a life's partner?
@mommyboo (13197)
• United States
25 Aug 08
People do indeed 'pick and choose' and take out of context things that are said in the Bible. I don't think this is what was intended, you either accept the whole thing or you don't, this piecemeal stuff is what gives way to all the different interpretations of what was said. I think from what I remember, that after all the bad guys thought they'd won and the resurrection occured, some of the rules changed. There was no longer the same need for sacrifices and stoning people and eating or not eating certain things. I don't even recall seeing anything that states (in a verse) that 'homosexuality is a sin' at least not that blatantly. I'm almost sure that people come to that conclusion based on passages they read, associating it with something ELSE that is stated as a sin. Like you, I don't believe in degrees of sin. If it IS a sin, then there is no degree. It is or it isn't, there's no half way. I am also starting to believe that people just want to use something to justify hating certain people or groups. Because religion can be used as a convenient scapegoat to justify it, people will do it. I think it would be much more honest to take that out of it and just say 'I don't like x group because I don't'. I don't understand why it's okay to discriminate and use religion in order to do it.
• United States
25 Aug 08
It does state in the bible "Let not a man lie with another man" I will have to look up the scripture. It is somewhere in one of the books after Genesis. One of the first four. I'm not a bible thumper I just recall that one line when first sitting down to read the bible.
@Pikelet (79)
15 Sep 08
Im a believer,its what drives me,and I am more than sure that even if the bible indicates that there is a bias against gay people,that it may be a misinterpretation.I feel sad when gays are reffered to as being something from another planet,they are the same as you and I,they are people who need people,they need friendship and companionship,the same as any heterosexual person.I see no difference in a gay person to a straight person myself,we are all people.It shouldnt come down to gays v christians,it should be a world where we all stand united,but lol that is in my dreams.
@flowerchilde (12534)
• United States
6 Sep 08
My policy is to not think about it one way or the other.. I leave all such matters up to the deity.. my bible tells me to love, that we have a new law (and principle). Some of the nicest people I know are gay.. and I'm pretty protective of any gay friends or relatives.. I'm actually quite proud of them, it's not an easy life they live and it's hard being who one is when it's against the tide. I have however prayed for close relatives not to be gay because once in awhile it seems to move as a trend.. I think that's something different.. As far as I'm concerned God may change His mind.. why not.. can't a perfect God change his mind.. and I wonder if those who are gay now will be also in the hereafter.. yet I do tend to see eternity and ultimate reality as all/or most in pairs, whereas the world (according to my meager seer abilities) is going to experiment with group marriages in some quarters.. I don't think most christians dislike gay folks.. I just think they want to preserve/conserve the traditional societal structure of man/woman and children.. I however, realize that this whole life is free-will.. that's the whole bag man.. if God endows it, who is anyone to try to legislate it away..? This world is going where it will go.. that's the whole trip.
• United States
30 Aug 08
I believe the Bible says being Gay is a sin. However, since I'm not a Pastor, God or Jesus, I don't feel it's any of my business who other people sleep with unless they are hurting a child or raping someone. As usual sndcain gave the best response already.
@skinnychick (6906)
• United States
26 Aug 08
I have only read a bit of the bible so I can't really comment on what most of it says. But I can make this comment: Most Christians (though not all) use the verses of the bible that suit them on controversial issues. There are passages in the bible that say don't eat shellfish because it's dirty, etc, etc...my grandmother is a devout Christian and follows stuff like this. But from what I have seen things like that don't matter because it's a non issue. So talk Sodom and Gomorrah over a big plate of crab while preaching hate which to them is hidden in religion. Jesus wasn't a hate monger so it's sad to see that some "Christians" are. I guess they don't follow the preachings of love that close.
@LadyMarissa (12160)
• United States
26 Aug 08
THANK YOU for asking this question in a way as not to create rantings. Discussions like this is one of the main reasons I will miss you terribly & why I joined myLot. God did say that marriage is between a man & a woman. However, as a very close friend in real pointed out recently...at the time the bible was written, there was NO formal marriage. I don't remember anywhere in the bible relating to Joseph marrying Mary & I think they had 12 children together. It's only been in the last 400 years or so that our governments found a way to make money by formally requiring couples to get married or divorced. In the days of the bible 2 people became one by living & traveling together & taking care of each other aka making a commitment to each other. When the males went to war or on extensive travels, the females drew closer together & took care of each other. During their travels, the males drew together & took care of each other. It's not until the laws of man took away the rights of partners did we have the need for homosexuals to have a reason to become formally married. In the days of the bible, they just joined together for life whether male/female, male/male or female/female. To divorce they just separated & walked away to find another partner. Jesus best friend was a wh0re. He protected her from those who came to stone her saying "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." He did NOT turn her away but showed her nothing but ACCEPTANCE & LOVE. I fully believe that Jesus loves the homosexuals just as much as he loves ALL others. The comment was made that Christianity is the only religion with a God of hatred. I do NOT believe that God hates anyone. It's man's arrogance turning God's words into hatred. The bible I have read says "Love thy neighbor as thyself." If God is the God of hatred as perceived by some, then Jesus would have thrown the first stone, NOT protected her. I believe our soul is sent on a journey to find its way to heaven. In the process, it uses many different vessels/bodies over a long period of time. In that feeling, I believe some are born into their human body as homosexuals as that is the lesson that soul needs to explore before traveling to its next lesson. God does NOT make mistakes. Just because we don't understand the lesson He is giving us a chance to learn. Is it possible God gave us homosexuals to teach ALL souls (both straight & gay) tolerance??? Am I fortunate I learned that in a prior lesson??? Is it not your turn to learn in this lesson??? EVERYONE needs to learn tolerance as Jesus showed us. The ONLY time Jesus had a lack of tolerance was with the Money Changers in the church. The human body does NOT go to heaven....ONLY the soul enters Heaven. I believe a soul full of love, tolerance, & peace will make it into Heaven ( accepting Jesus). A soul filled with hatred, arrogance & spite is condemned to Hell (following Lucifer). Jesus even loved Judas who was going to betray Him & condemn him to die. Would He turn a homosexual away in hatred??? I think NOT!!!
@bamakelly (5193)
• United States
25 Aug 08
This is a subject that I find to be controversial. Homosexuals have been seeming to come a long way these days when it comes to becoming more prolific with their lifestyles. They are even getting married in some places where it has been legalized. I for one am not going to stand in the way of their rights or stand on a podium. I do not condemn the homosexuals. They are not hurting me. The bible may have some passages that rule against this behavior. What I always come back to is the fact that there are a lot of things that God or the bible doesn't want going on. Killing, stealing, lying. I am not one to judge. But for a certain religious group of any type to single out one thing that they need to stand on such as homosexual behavior doesn't seem right. People sin everyday and I am human also. I don't have time to sit around and judge people or wait until the next sinful move is made by somebody. We are no one to tell anybody that there lifestyle is wrong. I believe that I am a Christian woman. I also believe that the Lord wants us to love thy neighbor.