Constitution 101....clarfifying the "General Welfare" clause

@xfahctor (14113)
Lancaster, New Hampshire
September 23, 2009 8:18am CST
Part II of my per diem constitutional clarification series. I thought with the healthcare debate raging, and the use of the "general welfare clause" to promote the idea, now would be a good time for some clarification. How ever, let this not be construed as a "healthcare" debate thread, such a debate is beyond the scope of this thread. This is more to clarify what the writers of the constitution intended in general and not at all specific to any one act or policy by government. This has been used to enact and justify all manner of government action and next to the "interstate commerce" clause, is probably the most abused and misinterpreted of constitutional language. "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." [b] ~ U.S. Constitution, Preamble It should be understood that the framers DID NOt intend this to mean everything that benefits the people. It was meant ONLY with in the enumerated powers of government. It really isn't too difficult to understand as the limits to this clause are the very same, self contained limits with in the constitution and the framers wrote this with the assumption of applying the clause with thse limits. The term "General Welfare" is a term describing public good, not individual welfare. This is supported not only by the philosophies of governence held by the founders, but by their writings. I give you three quotes from Maddison.... [i] "With respect to the two words 'general welfare,' I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators." "If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress.... Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America." "Money cannot be applied to the General Welfare, otherwise than by an application of it to some particular measure conducive to the General Welfare. Whenever, therefore, money has been raised by the General Authority, and is to be applied to a particular measure, a question arises whether the particular measure be within the enumerated authorities vested in Congress. If it be, the money requisite for it may be applied to it; if it be not, no such application can be made." [/i] ~ James Madison Now, before any of you pull Jefferson out of your pocket to counter this, he also held this same interpretation... [i] "To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it." "They are not to do anything they please to provide for the general welfare, but only to lay taxes for that purpose. To consider the latter phrase not as describing the purpose of the first, but as giving a distinct and independent power to do any act they please which might be for the good of the Union, would render all the preceding and subsequent enumerations of power completely useless. It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and, as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please... Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given them. It was intended to lace them up straitly within the enumerated powers and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect." [/i] ~Thomas Jefferson Again I will assert, the constitution is not rocket science and does not require a law degree to read and understand. One need only look at the other writings and speakings of the people who wrote it and an understanding of the philosophies of of governence they held.
2 people like this
8 responses
@N4life (851)
• United States
23 Sep 09
I don't think men such as Jefferson would mind Constitutional reformation..of course, jut what I think. Jefferson was big on both revolution and as many "fiscal conservatives" like to point out, not binding future generations.
@xfahctor (14113)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
23 Sep 09
Constitutional reform is one thing. The framers even put provisions in the constitution for reform should it need such action. But, they also made it a long difficult process and one involving a concensus of the states. They did so to prevent it from being added to for any old reason or in half arsed fashion. Again though, constitutional reform is one thing, ignoring and circumventing it is a whole other ball game and that is something that none of them would have stood for.
2 people like this
@N4life (851)
• United States
24 Sep 09
I can accept that. Delving into Jefferson's statement in your original thread, concerning taking from those who have earned it through skill in their industry and redistributing it is certainly not Costitutional. My issue is that many in banking and other industries earned their money through no skill and most of the richest...yes most, through illegal means. Even if they broke no laws none of these means were the result of a free market to begin with but a result of favorable govt intervention. This is the drive behind wanting to tax the wealthy more and wanting CEO pay caps etc. Some want a return to the days when innovation, skill, and hard work pay the most.
@miamilady (4910)
• United States
30 Sep 09
"Again I will assert, the constitution is not rocket science and does not require a law degree to read and understand. One need only look at the other writings and speakings of the people who wrote it and an understanding of the philosophies of of governence they held." hmmm I still say a lot is left up to interpretation... I'm not the type to spend hours looking up facts to prove my point, but I think it would be a safe bet to consider that even our founding fathers may have intended things differently from eachother at times and interpreted things differently from each other. This isn't to say that our founding fathers weren't wise men...but even in a room full of the smartest and wisest men (or women) you will have misunderstandings and communication challenges. That being said. Thank you for taking the time to post this discussion. I am going to have to go dig up "part 1" now. I do find your posts interesting and educational. I try to learn even from those I don't agree with. Not saying I don't agree...Just not saying I do. :-)
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
24 Sep 09
The preamble is just that a general statement or goal of government. It should be the goal of the government to promote the general welfare of the people IF IT IS DONE WITH IN THE FRAME WORK OF THE CONSTITUTION.
@Kowgirl (3489)
• United States
23 Sep 09
Yes, but from what has been happening for years now The Constitution as we know it has been ignored and even ridiculed as being "just a piece of paper". The words no longer stand up to what "we the people" think is best for all of us but for the politicians want for(from)us. It was a great standard of rules to go by but those rules have been tossed aside and each president has made up new ones to fit his agenda. Even Robin Hood was considered a crook because he stole from the rich to give to the poor but everyone looked at him as a hero, except from those whom he stole from.
@bestboy19 (5478)
• United States
23 Sep 09
The treasury door has been opened and a precedent set. It's going to be hard to get it back in and the door closed and locked. I would love to see it happen, but I'm not holding my breath.
• United States
25 Sep 09
We elect presidents who overstep their authority and in some cases don't even know what the definition of "is" is, then let these same idiots nominate the supreme court justices who are supposed to interpret the Constition. The whole idea of 3 independent and equal branches of gov't providing checks and balances is an illusion. We have a president who is willing to run over the Constitution, we have a congress willing to look the other way, and we have a supreme court willing to call black "white" and unconstitutional "constitutional". I can just imagine what evil they will spawn for the 'general welfare'.
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
23 Sep 09
I think the word "limits" is the most important word when it comes to government.
• United States
23 Sep 09
That pretty well spells it out clearly. Now try getting washington to follow it. That is where the problem lies.