Educational Spending is very important right?
By bobmnu
@bobmnu (8157)
United States
June 4, 2011 10:45pm CST
We hear all the time how important education and is and how we can not question spending because it is for the Kids. The President is pushing a "Race to the Top" program to reward top performing schools. The First Lady is pushing for schools to have kids eat better and become more active. The government has spent billions on Title 1 and Head Start with no noticeable improvement and the politicians keep telling us that we can't cut the funding because it is for the children. One of the few programs that was working and showing improvement the President cut. The voucher system for Washington, DC. Now the government is offering grants ($500 million program) to get children in Kindergarten to sit still, keep quiet and listen to the teacher.
How many educational programs can we afford that don't show positive results? We need to fund programs that work and not just sound good. We can not afford to keep paying for educational programs at the state and federal level just because we are doing it for the kids.
2 people like this
5 responses
@gewcew23 (8007)
• United States
5 Jun 11
Our economy depend on an educated workforce. Sure you could cut education spending now and save some some money. Would the economy suffer in the present, no but in the future yes. Of course if we only care about the here and now then slash away but some of us are forward thinking enough to know that for the US economy to continue to compete in a global economy our education system must be able to compete with Europe and Asia. We would need to cut education spending if the GOP would allow military spending cuts, but that will not happen because we are doing it for the military. Just a question but who will continue to design and build those fancy new kill machines for the military if the GOP gets it's why and cuts education funding?
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
5 Jun 11
The point is though that all this extra money being spent on education has had the opposite of its intended result. Test scores aren't getting higher. Literacy issues aren't going away. Despite all the extra spending children are somehow now required to outfit the classroom with supplies that can cost over $100.00. I used to work at Office Depot where parents would come in with the lists of supplies the schools required them to bring so trust me when I say that's a fact.
Money isn't the problem. They don't need more money. They need to do better with what they have. You and I are from the same generation. You know we were educated better than today's children and there was far less money going into schools back then. You know that we weren't watching videos on LCD projectors costing over a thousand dollars. Our schools didn't send us home with laptops that the school paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for. Our teachers were using plain dusty blackboards, not fancy smartboards. Throwing money at schools has not, and will not fix the problem.
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
6 Jun 11
The problem is not that we spend too much money on Education it is that we spend it on the wrong things. For example the Federal Government spends millions on technology for schools. Schools were able to provide computer labs for students and teachers. The next years they bought new computers for the Elementary School. The next year they bought all new computer monitors (flat screens). What they are doing with the computers they could do with 10 year old technology but because the government is funding new computers every 2-3 years the school either spend the money or lose it. With all this new technology students taking a computer course are learning all the computer terms and how the computer works from a teacher that has to ask students how to set up their email accounts on Yahoo. My son, in High School, had to learn all the parts and function of a computer before he got to use one. The students got to go into the computer lab the last two weeks of class. My granddaughter in elementary school use a $1500 computer set to take a test on a book she has read. She is asked 5 questions and types a one letter answer. $36,000 worth of computers so students can type in 5 letters every day.
Every year this one district spends close to $100,000 on new technology and the students use a a glorified typewriter. I have retired and now do some Sub Teaching. I see students who can draw pictures on the computer, they can play the math and spelling games but they can't write a complete paragraph in a one hour class.
The problem with government funding is it always has strings attached and ongoing costs that are not covered. The government gives schools money for new technology but no money for training of teachers. Schools receive hundreds of thousands of dollars for equipment and no money for training so teachers have all this high tech stuff and no idea how to use it in the class room. A few take the time to teach themselves but to many of the teachers if the school is not going to train them they won't learn but still have the equipment in their room.
Bottom line we pour billions into education but have no idea if it is working or not, so when test scores go down spend more money and add new programs but don't get rid of those that don't work.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
5 Jun 11
The scariest part to me is that big-spending, visionary education reformers are actually well-intentioned people.
Michelle Obama isn't a bad person. Her heart's certainly in the right place, wanting kids to eat better and be more active. Incentivising education also isn't malicious.
This stuff just doesn't work. It never works. It never has worked. It never will work.
People who approach these issues logically are often accused of being cruel-hearted. But it seems that those approaching these issues with compassion are incapable of thinking about the issues logically.
You can meet in the middle, designing something that tends to lean compassionate yet still makes sense.
The truth of the matter is that if pouring more money into education actually produced results, we would have long eaten another 10 trillion in debt and would have actually gotten a return on it with the smartest kids in the world.
It's BS. Kids in some impoverished countries in the worst conditions imaginable are able to outperform American kids! Obviously they don't have funding for 10 extra government workers in school who aren't teachers, or for computers and the latest tech, or for nutrition programs, etc.
Education, in terms of the actual kids, isn't such a polarizing, right-left issue all the time. But it seems to me that it is those on the left who outright refuse to even take a look at the teachers. They look at everything but. That's why so many people shout corruption. I can't say for 100% sure that it is, but we can all see that it doesn't look very good.
At some point in time, we are going to have to look at the system and demolish it. Throwing money on the problem isn't working. Coddling kids isn't working.
This is the biggest problem I have with big government. A big, all-knowing, all-controlling government never admits it got something wrong. It just doubles down on what's already not working.
It confuses me so brilliantly. Honestly. I've been begging someone for 3 years now on myLot to tell me why and how government programs are a good thing and how they actually help more than hurt.
I've been called radical and racist, but the drum-pounders never break rhythm long enough to explain their stance. They're all emotion, all the time.
The kids suffer in the long run. The only people who seem to benefit are employees of the school system and politicians who continue to be reelected.
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
6 Jun 11
In reading reports on different programs in education one thing keeps popping up - the best results come from rebellious teachers (often not fully licensed) who are working in the worst schools with students that no one cares about. Not following the curriculum and having high expectations of the students they make remarkable progress with the students. Of the many accounts I have read have one thing in common - the teachers do not see the students as poor or under educated, they set high expectations and the students achieve. They show they believe in the students and work with what they have for materials.
@asyria51 (2861)
• United States
6 Jun 11
I 100% support not coddling the kids. We are raising a generation of children who believe that it is there right to get an A just because they showed up. There is no accountability on the part of the student or the parent. If the child is not scoring well it must be the teacher's fault. Holding a child back because they have not developed the skills necessary to be successful the following year is seen as being demoralizing so let's just pass them on.
I also agree with not just throwing money at the problem. I am a teacher. I work in a school district that does not have much in the way of technology. They have an outdated computer lab that is shared by all 600 students in the school. We have no smart boards, in fact most of the classroom do not even have large dry erase boards, we use chalk. Yet my students made progress. Most gained a year or even more in math and reading. some started the year reading at a first grade level and ended reading at the third grade level. I bought my own books to use, I bought my own art supplies and I made sure that it was not just art for the sake of art, it had something to do to enhance and support the curriculum. Dedicated teachers get it done.
I did get accused of being racist( I am white), by the parents of the only white child in the class. They said that I never spent any time with their child, that I did not expect as much from him. I found this interesting as he made the most progress.
As for the employees of the school system being the only ones that benefit, look at the ones that actually benefit....the administration. The superintendent in my school district makes more in one year than I will in the next 7, and I can guarantee that he does not put any of his own money back into the district.
@laglen (19759)
• United States
5 Jun 11
Like you said, they cut what works and keep throwing good money after bad into programs that don't.
In my opinion, they should look a little harder at the Charter School model as this has proven successful. Our local School District Board keep voting down Charter requests. They make it blatantly clear how they really feel about educating our kids.
That being said, it is NOT the Federal Governments area to handle education. This is not an area for blanket solutions. If it were left to the States, I believe it would be much more relevant.
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
6 Jun 11
I would like to see the government give vouchers to parents and let them find a school for their children. When you sign your child up for school the school would lay our there expectations and the parents would tell the school what they want for their student. In effect it would be a contract between parents and the school with the parents responsible for their children's education.
1 person likes this
@Adoniah (7512)
• United States
6 Jun 11
Have you read an elementary school book lately? They are truly bizarre. They are so full of misinformation that even when my daughter was in school I pulled her out and did home school for junior high. Then she did dual enrollment for high school and basically just did the college courses because the high school courses were a joke.
Try reading an American History school book or a science book from today's schools. You will be appalled, especially if you went to school before the 70s. A book for the 8th grade today has less info in it than a fifth grade book used to. It is so sad.
Here in Fl. they are buying Kindle Books to replace textbooks. This is costing the school systems a fortune, but they all want them. With the computer savvy kids of today, how long do you think it will take for them to download a bunch of crap onto the Kindles? They cannot pass high school exit exams, but they can scam a computer. They will load them up with pictures, videos and comics, because they can take them home. They will sell them, and lose them.
As far as the food goes, the statistics claim that one in four kids in the states is going hungry. I live in a low income area. None of the kids in my area are going hungry. They are not always eating 'good food', but that is a "choice" it is not for lack of money or "food stamps etc". I am tired of skewed statistics.
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
6 Jun 11
how can you criticize the school for spending on toys - I mean technology for the children.
If you want an excellent US History book try "A Patriot's history of the United States" by Larry Schweikart and Michael Allen. You will learn more about US History than if you took several courses in the subject. I have the book on tape (I do a lot of driving and like to use the time to learn) and I have listened to it twice already.
@BalthasarTheRat (656)
• United States
5 Jun 11
In a "best bang for our buck" comparison of government spending, education spending is very inefficient. Programs that started during World War II as a response to the Great Depression "education lag" still run without major overhaul and don't do anything that the states aren't capable of doing for themselves now.
Culturally we do not value intelligence or hard work at school subjects as much as we value athletics and hard work in physical labor. That bias runs through all age groups and straight through the heart of Washington. The government creates these education programs to satisfy the parent demographic, but does not care about these programs enough to determine how well they really work and cutting them would surely tick off many parents. Politically, we are stuck with underperforming programs now.
Noone yet has the political clout and intelligence combination to solve this problem, basically starting over with new programs that would be themselves graded on efficiency and replaced if they started to falter.
We NEED to value the education of our youth more, but we can certainly cut a nice percentage off our education spending just as we should, across the board, on all spending.
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
6 Jun 11
This is why we have to make the parent responsible for the education of their children. One of the reasons private schools are successful is most of them require the parents to be involved in the school and their children's education. Public schools seem to want the parents to leave the child at the door and keep out - let the teachers educate the children.
