Is Evil Objective Or Subjective?
@arthurchappell (44941)
Preston, England
November 28, 2015 10:03am CST
I was sent an interesting essay written by a philosopher friend examining and trying to define evil. I completed my notes on the paper this morning which are just for his own reading but I have refined some of my observations for use here as little mini-features in their own right. This is the first piece.
My friend extensively quotes Christian commentator William Lane-Craig who believes that evil exists objectively of human moral opinion and argument. Most philosophers see morality being what most of us like and the immoral being that which we dislike. This means that if Hitler had won WW2 Nazism would be seen as a morally good philosophy. Craig claims that even if all who could think Hitler was wrong or evil were exterminated so only Nazis walked the planet their ideology would still be intrinsically evil.
I disagree and I emphasise my aberrance with Hitlerian ideology). If Nazism dominated the World 100% it would become the norm but without anyone like me surviving and claiming otherwise it would be seen by everyone surviving it as good – Many actual card carrying Nazis thought they were serving Germany’s best interests just as the Spanish inquisitionists thought their torture driven victim’s confessions and subsequent auto de fe executions were morally good because they saved the victims from Hell by giving them a warning taste of it to elicit a confession and absolution. Evil is a subjective value judgement label. The Yorkshire Ripper thought women were evil prostitutes and he was scourging them for God – most of us take him for the evil one – evil is a point of view. Without someone to object to a belief or course of action, there is no distinction between good or evil. They are entirely subjective labels.
Does a tree in the forest make a noise if it falls but out of all ear shot? Yes, and that includes if God isn’t there to see it – the assumption W L Craig makes is that evil exists objectively because God sees or even organizes it but if god is an existing sentient entity then evil is subjective to his point of view just as with ours – without a God, evil is a label we apply ourselves.
Arthur Chappell
11 people like this
9 responses
@cindiowens (5120)
• North Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
28 Nov 15
Many things are objective and subjective. Do you see the color blue as I do? probably not.
3 people like this
@arthurchappell (44941)
• Preston, England
28 Nov 15
@cindiowens good point though unless colour blindness is involved we do both perceive something we agree on being blue - God and evil get rather more contentious.
2 people like this
@cindiowens (5120)
• North Myrtle Beach, South Carolina
28 Nov 15
@arthurchappell Very true. We do agree that it is blue, but while I might perceive it as beautiful, someone else might think it is hideous. The same with good and evil, but on a much grander scale. People who used to sacrifice their infant children to gods thought they were doing a good thing. I think it was evil. I think this is a great discussion for debate. However, my thoughts of what is good and evil will not change and I doubt that anyone else's will either. I understand that you are not trying to persuade anyone's thought process. I love these kinds of debates, because there is no right or wrong answer, only a discussion leading to deeper meanings.
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@Rollo1 (16676)
• Boston, Massachusetts
28 Nov 15
The problem is that there are people who object to what you consider good, just as you may object to what they consider good. In order to judge good and evil, we need an absolute. Man is not trustworthy, because his concepts of good and evil change from society to society, generation to generation. Obviously then, Man cannot be entrusted with deciding good or evil. God is the only absolute moral judge, and even if we don't like or agree with His judgements, if God is the Supreme Being of the universe and beyond, we have to accept that we are not qualified to judge Him. Evil would still be evil, even if we call it good.
2 people like this
@Rollo1 (16676)
• Boston, Massachusetts
28 Nov 15
@arthurchappell I believe that we don't need a right to appeal because God has given us forgiveness through His Son. Why appeal a judgment that declares you justified, free and someone else has already taken your punishment so you don't have to?
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@arthurchappell (44941)
• Preston, England
28 Nov 15
@Rollo1 there are still people cast into Hell if scripture is to be believed
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@GreatMartin (23670)
• Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
29 Nov 15
I believe some people are just born evil. Did you ever see the play--or movie version of the play--"The Bad Seed"--very interesting theory on evil.
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@arthurchappell (44941)
• Preston, England
29 Nov 15
not familiar with this play @GreatMartin
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@GreatMartin (23670)
• Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
4 Dec 15
@arthurchappell Get the DVD of the movie version--very closely follows the play except the end--Hollywood rules back then.
1 person likes this
@troyburns (1405)
• New Zealand
29 Nov 15
Can I throw a spanner into the works? This argument hinges principally on whether you are a consequentialist or a deontologist. In other words, do you judge good and evil according to its outcome or its intention? It is entirely possible for a single event to be seen as both good or evil, depending on which side of this fence you're on. Also worth considering is the Euthyphro Dilemma which deals a crippling blow to Craig's rather shallow argument. Although morality is essentially subjective, there are consistencies across all cultures - and even all species - which suggest something more universal, though in my opinion these consistencies are sociological rather than theological.
2 people like this
@arthurchappell (44941)
• Preston, England
29 Nov 15
@troyburns great points - I am quite critical of Craig too, having watched him in action on Youtube. I played Socrates in a staging of The Euthyphro for a local philosophy group for one of their discussions which was great fun. I would certainly see myself as a consequentialist though in my writing I set out characters with both motive and consequences n mind - not just for crimes. What we want to happen is not always the result. Hitler was a consequence of the actions we took against Germany at the close of WW1, the Cold War a consequence of the division of Europe after the 2nd, ISIS a consequence of our destabilising the powers established in the near East to get a better oil deal, etc. What we wanted and what we got are two different things but its the outcome that matters. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions
@Namelesss (3364)
• United States
28 Nov 15
Evil is subjective. I think humans are likely the only natural creatures on this planet that will practice evil in an effort to make it seem otherwise. I note your mention of the absence of God. I propose that if we remove man from the picture there would be no evil.
2 people like this
@Drosophila (16568)
• Ireland
29 Nov 15
People might temporarily be brainwashed into thinking what they were doing was right. but ultimately humans as a specie would wake up one day and be completely appalled at what we did. Our history is littered with examples of this. So if nazi won the war, we'd still wake up one day and be appalled.
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@arthurchappell (44941)
• Preston, England
29 Nov 15
much as we now look back on the games of the Roman Coliseum arena @Drosophila
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@Drosophila (16568)
• Ireland
29 Nov 15
@arthurchappell Absolutely! It's man's ability to review our actions periodically that makes evil both a subjective and objective matter. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. Unless you remove man totally from the equation.
1 person likes this
@Jessicalynnt (50523)
• Centralia, Missouri
28 Nov 15
I think good and bad is subjective, but Evil is not. It like Whatever deity you prefer, just simply is.
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