Zen koan: The thought before the thought is not a thought
By emptychair
@innertalks (23734)
Australia
September 3, 2021 12:16am CST
"I am not thinking right now,"
the old Zen master, Gogon Remplaz, said to his favourite student, Doplon.
"Is that statement true, or untrue?"
he then asked Doplon.
Doplon answered,
"Love thinks not, but speech requires thought behind it, as speech effects itself from this cause, but love has no cause but itself."
"Therefore the statement is both true and false, depending on whether, you are thinking it, outwardly only, or inwardly first."
The master looked at his student, and laughed.
"The state of non-thinking, never exists, except when I think, without thinking."
"All things are best expressed without thinking, as this is seeing things as they really are. See things before you think about them, and then do not see them, because your thoughts created clouds around them then, blocking your seeing."
"Do not block thoughts though, simply sit behind them to view things with thoughtless eyes, not thought affected eyes."
Photo Credit: The photo used in this article was sourced from the free media site, pixabay.com
The master's smile had love behind it, not thought. Be love before the thought.
5 people like this
4 responses
@DocAndersen (54399)
• United States
3 Sep 21
i suspect the master was drawing the line between intentional and unintentional thinking. I am not sure it is even possible to turn off the human brain.
thinking, calculating and evaluating occur even when we are not paying attention.
2 people like this
@innertalks (23734)
• Australia
4 Sep 21
The great Zen Master Dogen said::
"Think of not-thinking. How do you think of not-thinking? Be before thinking. These are the basics of zazen".
Who is the "I" behind the thought?
Where does the thought arise from?
Every thought arises for a reason, being stimulated by something.
Even unintentional thinking arises within us, from somewhere, because of some reason.
The more conscious that we are, the more our thinking can be understood, and acted upon more intentionally too.
@innertalks (23734)
• Australia
5 Sep 21
@DocAndersen In dreams, our thoughts seem to come from outside of us, or sometimes just as pictures, rather than as words.
If we are purely thought, God must be one big thought machine too, and the Christian bible might agree with that, as he was said to have thought the Universe into its creation.
@DocAndersen (54399)
• United States
4 Sep 21
@innertalks as Niche said philosophy is simply the dog not having a tail. Neither the dog nor the tail can wag the other.
the very argument of not thinking is effectively thinking. we clear our minds but that is merely clearing the now from us. In reality, once we move past the limits of us, we are purely thought.
2 people like this
@innertalks (23734)
• Australia
3 Sep 21
Yes, I agree. Most thoughts are secondary to observation, or reactionary to experiences.
If we stay on our loving base, our thoughts will be influenced by where we are, rather than if we have a base of resentment, and anger, our thoughts will then be influenced by that base too.
Who we are, makes our thoughts what they are.
Our thoughts, on their own then, do not make us who we are; they come from who we are underlyingly underneath these thoughts.
@Letranknight2015 (52665)
• Philippines
3 Sep 21
okay that really gave me a slight head ache there. Well, thanks for sharing.
2 people like this
@innertalks (23734)
• Australia
3 Sep 21
Ha, ha. I achieved my aim then.
I was hoping to stir up some thinking amongst the non-thinking, or is that non-thinking amongst the thinking?
@Shiva49 (28371)
• Singapore
3 Sep 21
There are a few who think a lot before they speak and the few who are spontaneous.
I do not like to think much when before persons I know or trust but with strangers I am circumspect.
Thoughts should not come in the way of good intentions as we could then get thwarted and back away.
1 person likes this
@innertalks (23734)
• Australia
4 Sep 21
We certainly think more when we write our thoughts down here.
We often reread them again to check them before we post them.
Perhaps, we should learn to be more circumspect, as you said, with all of our thoughts, as otherwise, they can often come back to us, and bite us.
@innertalks (23734)
• Australia
4 Sep 21
@Shiva49 Yes, with so many different cultures here, it can be easy to be misunderstood, and we have to be careful with humour too. Some seem staid in their views, fundamentalists.
1 person likes this
@Shiva49 (28371)
• Singapore
4 Sep 21
@innertalks We have those from a broad spectrum of human behavior here.
I like to share some personal vibes, opinions, but more in "dialogues" with you here.
Some share their personal lives with gay abandon and a few we do not even know where they are from, their gender, etc.
My interactions depend on their traits that I can discern from theirs.
Occasionally, I am dragged into controversies that try to avoid in the first place.
1 person likes this
