Where do you stand on the imigration debate?
By moonshadow68
@moonshadow68 (723)
United States
June 5, 2007 4:02am CST
I live in southern Illinois where a great deal of the fruit crop is cared for and harvested by migrant workers and many of them did not come to the United States through legal channels. I understand the concept that many hard-workig people come from Mexico and Latin American to the United States looking for better opportunities.
However, I am horribly offended that the president and some members of Congress are willing to ignore that these people crossed our borders illegally and took up residence here. I believe people should be allowed to come to this country to seek a better life, but I know how difficult other countries make immigration or even just visiting, so why are we the bad guys for wanting to enforce our laws?
Switzerland does not let immigrants vote---ever---even after they become Swiss citizens, which is apparently no piece of cake.
Mexican law prohibits foreigners from owning property there.
And just to get a student visa for Australia, my husband had to get medical clearance from a doctor approved by the Aussie government. His local American doctor wasn't good enough.
So why should we be any different and leave our borders open to anyone who wanders across?
Can you convince me that I'm wrong?
4 people like this
13 responses
@KissThis (3003)
• United States
6 Jun 07
I can't convince you that you are wrong because I believe in what you are saying. In reality illegal immigrants have better benefits then actual Americans do. Yes an illegal immigrant makes a low wage but because of this low wage they are now eligible for other benefits. They get free health care, food stamps, section 8, and free schooling for their children. With the free schooling we have to pay for bilingual teachers so that their children can learn because it isn't convenient for them to actual learn English so that they are able to fit in.
It is wrong that our government don't have the guts to actual do something about this issue. They are all afraid to stand up and actual do something. This is suppose to be OUR country. Why do we need for anyone else to tell us how to run it? Build the fences or walls to keep out the illegal immigrants. Allow our border patrol officers to do their jobs and stop the illegal immigrants from crossing. Start enforcing the laws and punish anyone who is breaking the law.
I am not against anyone coming here legally. I am against those that disrespect our laws and come in to our country demanding rights. Illegal immigrants do NOT have rights in this country. They should go back to their own country to demand some rights.
3 people like this
@moonshadow68 (723)
• United States
6 Jun 07
Amen! I don't think most Americans are saying get out and stay out. I think most of us are saying...do it the right way. Don't have the Mexican presidnet campaigning here for re-election. Don't break our laws because you want our lifestyle so badly and for goodness sake, don't argue that you want the lifestyle America has to offer and then reuse to assimilate. I'm not talking about ignoring your heritage, but I am saying learn the language. Yes, it would be nice if everyone was bi-lingual, but it should be an option, not a necessity.
@Aussies2007 (5336)
• Australia
6 Jun 07
There is not much to debate... and I don't need to convince you that you are wrong... because you are not.
It is obvious to me that the American businesses support illigal immigrants because it is good for their business. Cheap labour means extra money for a good capitalist. And capitalism is what's drives America..
In turn... it is those same businesses which supply the necessary money and support for George Bush elections... So George Bush has no other choice but to turn a blind eye to those illegal immigrants. He has been paid off by the businesses to do so.
Life is very simple to understand if you open your eyes to what is really going on behind the close doors of the White House.
Don't get me wrong... this is not a stab at America. Every government around the world is bought by the big businesses. It is the business man and the entrepreneur who rules the world. The politician is a mere pawn who does what it is told to do by the big businesses.
It is not George Bush who wants a war in Iraq. It is the whole military industry which needs a war in Iraq in order to make money. And as America's economy very much depends on building arms... America needs a war for its economy to survive. America has been at war with someone every single day since 1945.
Food for thoughts...
@Aussies2007 (5336)
• Australia
6 Jun 07
Furthermore... America was build with the use of slaves. Getting the job done by illegal immigrants is just another form of slavery.
The big business and the government is way pass racism here. It is simply exploiting the poor people to make mega-bucks.
It will use them for as long as it can... and then... it will deport them. I see a lot of questions about illegal immigration here. My answer to all of those questions is... if you are going to use those people... the least you can do... is to accept them. They only come to your country because your government let them in.
You are not going to tell me that while America can control the world with its military... it cannot control one of its borders with Mexico.
2 people like this
@moonshadow68 (723)
• United States
6 Jun 07
I think the last sentence probably hit it the best...it's not that we can't control the border, the politicians have simply never tried. And I think that the reason you see so much discussion of it is because the average citizen has ahd just about enough of it.
I knew a young woman about a year ago who was diagnosed with a tumor on the hypothalamus of the brain. It wasn't cancerous and wasn't deadly, yet, but it was causing all sorts of problems for her. The problem was she was a 23-year-old woman who worked for $10 an hour at a doctor's office. The surgery would have cost nearly a million dollars. It isn't meant to be racist, only accurate, that she pointed out that nearly half of our patients would have been able to get the surgery that she couldn't get because they were illegal imigrants with medicaid (state sponsored health insurance for the poor).
I think the revolution is coming...not just here or there, but world-wide...when the workers will decide that we've had enough of big business. The attitude that poor people (immigrants) will do work that ciizens won't just reflects a growing disparity between the haves and have nots. And, despite the fact that they have the money, the have nots have numbers. Eventually, we will quit debating over which lower class group is being stepped on the hardest and be a severe thorn in someone's paw.
1 person likes this
@moonshadow68 (723)
• United States
6 Jun 07
By the way, I'm terribly curious...where is Australia are you? My hubby's finishing the fall semester at Wollongong today and headed home here on Thursday, so needless to say I've become a little more interested in Austrlian politics of late.
1 person likes this

@rusty2rusty (6763)
• Defiance, Ohio
5 Jun 07
I think we need to send all illegal immigrants back where they came from. i also think we need to make stiffen fines and punishments for an illegals who cross or borders or break our laws. I also think we should restrict illegals from being to do alot of things in this country...Like being able to buy a house, a car, or even able to vote.
1 person likes this
@moonshadow68 (723)
• United States
6 Jun 07
A lot of other countries restrict the rights of legal immigrants, much less illegal ones, but somehow we take a lot of crap for wanting to secure our borders. I'm not sure we need to increase the punishments for illegal immigrants, just that we need to enforce the laws we have.
@rusty2rusty (6763)
• Defiance, Ohio
6 Jun 07
We also need to stop worrying about what other countries think of us.
@Netsbridge (3253)
• United States
5 Jun 07
I strongly believe in controlled immigration. In the case of the USA, however, I think the problem lies with the fact that people do not understand why the decendants of the Mayflower and Slaveships (to whom the borders were left open), and not the Native Americans or Mexicans (if one is in the South), would want to dictate who can or cannot come to the USA!

@moonshadow68 (723)
• United States
6 Jun 07
I think the key is that during the same time that the borders were open to European and African immigrants (if you can call them that), the southern borders were open too...Talk to the populations of Southern Colorado who can happily trace their lineage to the Conquistadors.
It shouldn't be a matter of skin color, ethnic origin or economics. It should be free to apply and unless you have a background that precludes you (like say, consorting with the enemy), it should be an open door policy. But before we open the door, we should be allowed to look through the peephole and know whose out there.
@Latrivia (2878)
• United States
5 Jun 07
Well, I live in a border state...Texas. I grew up with illegals around me. I went to school with some. In my highschool, we had growing race war problems - all of which originate from, surprise, surprise, illegal Mexicans. They got free food, a free education, and all many of them could do in return was cause the school problems and distract the rest of us.
Because I see them almost everyday, I've seen both the good and the bad. Believe me, illegals can be good people - I've met a few that were very nice. I've also met a few that were horrible - usually in schools. Ultimately, though, they are all here illegally. Many have large families, and they almost all get paid wages far less than minimum wage. Because of this, many are disqualified from paying certain taxes, they get free medical care, and their school children get free food at school.
You know, I realize they all want a chance at a better life, but so do a lot of immigrants who come here legally. I want to know what makes illegals so special that they think they should be able to cut in line and expect to get away with it? If the situation was reversed, they'd be doing the same thing to illegal Americans. In fact, until recently I do believe, they used to incarcerate illegal aliens...yet the Mexican government seems to think the American government should just bend over and take this without complaint. Double standard, maybe?
Regardless, I believe illegals need to be sent back to their country of origin, and if they want back in, they should do it the legal way.
2 people like this
@moonshadow68 (723)
• United States
6 Jun 07
It's funny isn't it, that Mexico has fences along its southern border to prevent immigration from their southern neighbors, but thinks that we should allow people in regardless of their background. I was more than a little offended when President Fox came to San Diego to appeal to the voters of Mexico when he was running for reelection.
@kbabe87 (1)
• United States
6 Jun 07
I'm from CA where the issue is pretty big(althoough i live in the valey so its not as huge here as say in LA) At first i thought that the people crossed should just be left alone and enforcment @ the border. now ive kinda switched that and i thin we need to work with mexico to deal with fining illegal residents and if they dont pay deporting them. its seems mean but i think it needs to be done. I think we should give everyone like a certain amount of time to ay dependin on how long theyve been here, what theyve done sice theyve been here(good or bad) and if they have family here or not. So someone whos been here 10 yrs., all of family here and who has a regular job and never been in trouble would have longer to pay than someone here a yr., by themself, whos been in jail.
1 person likes this
@moonshadow68 (723)
• United States
6 Jun 07
I think you're on the right track. People who have come to this country, worked hard and adopted themselves as Americans should be given a chance to "earn" their citizenship...pay back taxes or whatever. But I don't think it's fair to say "oops, you're alread here, so we'll ignore that you came illegally and whatever otehr illegal things you've been doing since you arrived."
@AxranraRose82 (1120)
• United States
15 Jun 07
I agree with everything you say!
You left out Canada, where you need a college education or equivilent to live there. You have to pay two different fees and take a test on Canadian laws and government.
But here in the US we are the bad people if we don't give the illegal immigrants welfare checks, food stamps, free medical care and free housing. And the sad thing is that far too many people in our governments allow this abuse of the systems. Now more than every everyone should make their feelings clear by voting and more. Just recently we had an issue in our local government that was handled badly. I was amazed at how the public handled it. They voted and every person who had gone the way we didn't agree with was voted out of their positions. We were happier to see the "unknown evil" in office rather than the person who pi$$ed us off! Now we need to do the same but make a nation-wide effort! We have some say in what goes on with our government so we need to make sure we are voting in people who are going to do the right thing to both our natural-born citizens and our legal friends. I have great respect for all of the people that came here to seek a better life and did it the right way.
If I were to decide that I wanted to live in a different country I would do it the right way too. I would work hard to learn their language, even if mine were spoken there too. I would happily take their tests and pay their fees if it meant that I would be happier living there.
All these illegal immigrants are going to do is turn this country into the same thing they left.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
5 Jun 07
I think it's disgusting that the U.S. government requires Americans to have a passport to travel to Mexico, but doesn't require anything from Illegal aliens.
1 person likes this
@moonshadow68 (723)
• United States
6 Jun 07
I agree that it seems ridiculous that American citizens can't re-enter the country withouit a passport, but that illegal imigrants don't have to provide any identification or can provide false information and collect government benefits with it. Quite honestly, I wouldn't mind doing away with all quotas and basically letting anyone who applied into the country (with appropriate identification checks), but I've got to believe tnat peopleso desparate to come here that they would come illegally are desparate enough to do anything it takes to survive. And that makes for a dangerous element added to our society.
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
16 Jun 07
I do not think illegals should have special privileges or allowed to stay in the States without any penalty. If they had come on a work visa or just visiting, and decided to stay, they should go to Immigration and inquire that they wanted to live in the States permanently and do what they say. If they have to cross back into Mexico, and apply there, so be it. If they came to the States and had children here, the children should get the proper education and medical help, but it should be done through a third party so the parents who came here illegally do not benefit and it should be the minimum help, no scholarships and special grants.
@Wingedman (238)
• United States
5 Jun 07
The problem with the whoel immigrant debate is that we shoudl never have had to ask the question. If the existing laws had been properly enforced we would not have 12+ millions people in the US illegally, sapping the resources of the country and sending it all to their home nations that rightfully should be supporting them.
I'm in favor of returning to a Roosevelt style of isolationism on all fronts except economics. We need to get our house in order and that means kicking out those that break the law.
No-one, absolutely no-one has ever invaded a single country with an army of 12 Million people. They have never been able to muster that many people. However, that is exactly what we have in this country is an invasion; and it has to stop before the country collapses in on itself under the burdens of other countries.
@moonshadow68 (723)
• United States
6 Jun 07
I'm not sure I can avocate isolationism in a global society, but I do agree that a major part of the problem is not enforcing the laws we have now and not giving adequate support and manpower to the border patrol.
Twenty years ago when I visited Canada their border patrol asked me what I was planning to do there and how long I was staying. I didn't mind the questions because I thought they had a right to ask them...I was a foreign national entering their country. We should quit being so PC and allow our border patrol to ask the same things and enforce their positions.
@misheleen73 (6037)
• United States
5 Jun 07
Hi Moonshadow, I live in Northern Illinois and we have the same problem here. I cannot convince you that you are wrong, as I feel the same way that you do. It really bothers me that whenever someone speaks up against Illegal Immigration they are automatically considered to be racist or intolerant. My Aunt has been married to a Bahamian man for over 35 years and still cannot own property in the Bahamas. Many countries have very strict laws regarding immigration, yet we always end up looking like the bad guys !!
1 person likes this
@moonshadow68 (723)
• United States
6 Jun 07
I get so sick of the holier than thou types who keep insisting that we have to open our borders to everyone because 200 years ago we accepted everyone. Times have changed and we need to act appropriately. Defending our country should not make us the bad guys!
@scarywhitegirl (2766)
• United States
5 Jun 07
See, now here's the tricky bit. Having studied immigration history, I think I approach the topic differently than other people. Originally, America was supposed to be the great melting pot--where people of all ethnicities could come and blend together in the land of the free. The problem was that too many "undesirable" immigrants took the U.S. up on the offer, and so the government implemented restrictions on numbers of immigrants each year.
The problem, then, seems to be that those people who want to come to the U.S. legally are often not allowed to do so. So in that case, they turn to their next option: illegal immigration.
I'm not trying to say that illegal immigration is the right solution, I'm just trying to give a little bit of historical perspective to the topic. The U.S. went from being the land of freedom for everyone to the land of freedom for those select few that the government chooses to admit. It just makes me wonder if the government is looking at the correct issue, sometimes.
1 person likes this
@gothboyy (5)
• United States
6 Jun 07
the shameful xenophobia in this country must stop. just yesterday i was watching the republican debates on cnn and i heard one of the candidates say that the country is becoming a bilingual country and that thats a bad thing. people who say that we should just deport these 12 million people are completely ignorant and unfortunately are also uninformed. let me ask you this, why would a human being risk their life to walk accross desert and or pay a dastardly indivudual who could sell them into slavery to get into this country? these people are here because they want to provide a better life for their family's just as any other human being would. your telling me that if you had the opportunity to have a better life you wouldnt take it? this country is the wealthiest country in the world and we can afford to take in these people. i strongly beleive that we need to secure our borders and ports however before we give amnesty but amnesty is essential.
@moonshadow68 (723)
• United States
6 Jun 07
I think you are flat out wrong to call this a question of xenophobia. The truth of the matter is we can't afford to support an extra 12 or 20 million people sinply because their own governments are too corrupt or lazy or whatever to deal with the economic hardships facing their countries. For too long, Mexico and to a lesser extent other coutnries hae pawned off their social ills on the United States and it isn't fair.
Your profile doesn't say where you live other than in the U.S., but let me use the example of my state, Illinois. This state cannot afford to pay its bills on time. The governor has proposed the largest tax increase in the state's history, electric rates are through the roof and yet we are expected to and do provide educations for the children of illegal immigrants (includng bi-lingual programs in several of the schools near me), medical care--either through medicaid or charity hospitals, food stamps and more. That 12 million people you say we can take in is almost the population of Illinois and we can't afford to pay our bills as it is.
Would I do anything to make a better life for my family...well, almost...and I'm not saying we turn them away or ship 12 million people back to where they ame from. Hell, that's not even reasonably feasible...can you imagine the price of bus tickets for that many people? But the current attitude of let's pretend its not a problem and make them all insti-citizens is wrong, wrong, wrong.












