If you are pro-choice or pro-abortion would you agree to this?

@shannon76 (1232)
United States
June 9, 2007 6:16pm CST
Would you help to fight the laws that are keeping doctors from performing sterlization in adults? I know alot of people talk of doctors telling them they have to be above 35 years of age or have 3 or 4 kids before they would tie a womans tubs or any such procedure. So what I'm wondering if this could be possible common ground for pro-choice/pro-life. Could this be a possible cause for us both to fight for? I would stop fighting so much for abortion to be illegal if we could get the laws changed for that. I wouldn't be so opposed to abortion for necessary means if women that ABSOLUTLY did not want to be pregnant or did not want child ever, would be able to be sterilized or have their partner sterilized. It's silly to me that a doctor is willing to perform an abortion which is life altering and can not be reversed but they are not willing to tie a womans tubes before a certain age? Weird! So what do ya'll think? Could this be a start towards common ground or do you pro-choice'ers still resent the idea? =)
3 people like this
9 responses
@stacyv81 (5904)
• United States
10 Jun 07
well, I think that if we are supposed to be giving women a choice, why cant they have the choice to tie their tubes if they want? I know doctors are trying to prevent them regretting it in the future, but like so many have said the emotional scars that come with an abortion are traumatizing to some, so, maybe thinking about changing this law could be a good step. I mean if people really never want any who is the doctor to say she cannot do this procedure? I mean if you cant outlaw abortions, why should you be able to outlaw tubal ligations for those under 35? I think you are right and I agree with you on this. =)
@shannon76 (1232)
• United States
10 Jun 07
It makes sense doesn't it? Women are all about having choices and being able to control their body and what is done with their body, right? Then why aren't they fighting for this? I am seriously thinking about finding a way to get something started about trying to change the laws on this. EXcept I have no idea where to start! lol
2 people like this
@stacyv81 (5904)
• United States
10 Jun 07
Well, how about writing a letter to your congressman or woman, or we could all (who agree on this) get together with a letter to the president. I know he has voiced his opinion on abortions, and I think maybe he would be behind something like this =)
@shannon76 (1232)
• United States
11 Jun 07
That's what my husband suggested. I asked him if he thought it was a crazy idea for me to persue this and he was like heck no! Write to the president if ya have to! But if it is at the level of the individual doctors and it was left up to their discretion then how could even the president help with that? It's not like he could "force" doctors to perform that..
1 person likes this
@susiq445 (13)
• United States
10 Jun 07
I work in the Family Birth Place at my hospital. I see "children" as young as 12 years old having children. There are many Mom's who are young and have one or 2 children and know they don't want anymore. So very many can't support the one's they have. I don't understand why the law makes the decision what age is appropriate for a Tubal Ligation. Each and every female has reasons for sterilization. There are too many children out there who weren't planned and end up in foster care etc. What right does anyone else have to make such a personal decision? There are exceptions....but for the general population I say NO. I am obviously pro-choice for the reasons stated above:)
3 people like this
@shannon76 (1232)
• United States
10 Jun 07
Yeah it irks me that doctors can pick a random number and say that is an appropriate age for their tubes to be tied. Why that age? I have heard of TONS of women hitting their 40's and changing their mind about wanting kids... So since you are pro-choice, do you think that would be a just cause for both pro-choice and pro-life to fight for - women being able to get a tubal ligation when they want instead of what doctors want?
2 people like this
@mmiller26 (1932)
• Canada
10 Jun 07
I'm not so sure it's the doctors arbitrarily picking a number as the insurance companies saying that they won't pay for it to be done before a certain age. I'm not sure exactly how that works. I've heard from other women as well that she went to the doctor and asked to have her tubes tied, and the doctor tried to talk her out of it because she only had one child, or because she was too young. I think the doctors want to protect the woman in some cases, because women do change their minds about these things, and the success rate of having a child after reversing the tube-tying procedure is slim. (To be fair, I've heard of doctors not wanting to perform vasectomies for the same reason) But I think for those who definitely know that they don't want more kids, it should be an option. If you're not using the parts, why not take care of the problem so you never have to worry about it anymore. I'm not sure how abortion fits into all of this. Obviously someone who never wants kids would be a perfect fit for this procedure. But someone who does want kids in the future, but for whatever reason (be it financial, emotional, abuse/trauma, etc) can't have one this minute, abortion still needs to be an option.
2 people like this
@shannon76 (1232)
• United States
11 Jun 07
I don't think insurance has anything to do with it honestly. From what I gather from what other women are saying is that it is the DOCTORS that are flat out refusing to do them. But like you, I am still unsure. I think I will talk to my GYN next time I go in and see what her take on it is. I agree, I think it should be an option. Just like abortion can't be reversed, you have to live with your decision so you darn well better be sure about it. I think after careful consideration and proper education about the procedure(s) then the decision should still be up to the woman. I am tying abortion into this because I think it would be a great way to reduce the number of abortions if this option was available. Like a few posters on here have already said that they flat out don't want any children EVER right? And a few of said they have been refused by a doctor or two to get sterilized so that is how abortion ties in. I know their are exceptions and I am not saying this is a "cure" all but maybe a baby step.
1 person likes this
10 Jun 07
I wanted to be sterilised at the age of 27 when my youngest was born. I have three children to the same father who I am now seperated from. I don't want any more! The doctor refused under the grounds that I was under thirty, was not in a stable relationship (or any) and suffered with a history of depression! Ok the depression side of things I can understand. But the rest... what garbage! Three children is more than enough for anyone. I have boys and a girl. I had my first at eighteen and now I'm looking forward to some me time! I am pro choice and believe that if a woman decides that she doesn't want any more children then she should be allowed to make that choice rather than be potentially in a situation of an unwanted pregnancy and th e dilemma of whether to have the child or abort.
3 people like this
@shannon76 (1232)
• United States
11 Jun 07
SEe? These are the cases that I am talking about that I think that if we can some how come up with a way to get doctors to see this side then maybe we can some how get them to perform steralization without prejudice.
1 person likes this
@eden32 (3975)
• United States
12 Jun 07
Even the argument about a history of depression is unfair. It's not like pregnancy or parenting cures depression!
@Galena (9120)
10 Jun 07
I don't ever want to have a baby. I also don't ever want to have an abortion. the way things stand, at some point I may have to decide which I want least. if only doctors were willing to accept that I know my mind better than they do, and that I won't automatically change my mind because I have ovaries. if I had the option to choose to be sterilised, I'd go for it. in the unlikely event that I changed my mind, well I'd just have to live with that. just as if I fell pregnant then I would have to live either with having a child or ending the potential life of my own child. I would honestly rather see a woman wishing she hadn't had a sterilisation than I would see someone have an abortion, and I'm pro-choice.
3 people like this
@shannon76 (1232)
• United States
11 Jun 07
Me too Galena. I completely agree with your last sentence.
1 person likes this
• United States
10 Jun 07
I went through 12 doctors before I found one that would tie my tubes. I was 23 years old, had two children already. I got pregnant with both my boys while on birth control. I knew at that point in my life, there was no way I could afford to have any more children. I finally found a doctor to agree to perform the procedure and had the 'bell clip' ligation done. It is reversible with a fairly high success rate. Now that my kids are older and I'm earning my degree, I may decide in the next couple of years that I want another child and I still have that option. There is no law that states women have to be a certain age to have a tubal ligation; I think it's a 'morality' thing. As for your point, honestly, I feel if a woman has continually gone in for abortions, apparently she's not in a position to have children. If she so chooses to be sterilized, then let her! I'm more pro-life due to how many families can't have their own children, adoption is always a choice. Hope this helps!
2 people like this
@shannon76 (1232)
• United States
11 Jun 07
12 doctors? Holy moly! What did the previous 11 tell you? And how did you react? I am just asking so I can get some insight on what I am up against. And the doctor that finally did it for you, what was so different about that doctor? Why did he/she do it for you and the others didn't?
1 person likes this
• United States
11 Jun 07
The previous doctors told me that I was too young to make that decision. I was 22 years old. As I explained to them, I was married, had two children already, was also responsible for a third (my husband's daughter) and that my husband and I both agreed that it was in our best interest not to have more children. None of them agreed. The doctor that finally agreed to perform the tubal ligation was just wonderful. He sat with me for over an hour and we discussed the pros and cons of tubal ligation, birth control options, etc. I think he could tell that I was determined to have this procedure one way or another. He of course had me sign a document stating that I would not hold him liable if I changed my mind, etc and one month later, I was in surgery. I think some of it had to do with him being a younger doctor and also because he took state insurance, he saw so many young women working on their 3rd, 4th, sometimes even 5th child AND being on welfare. I wasn't, but I think him being in that type of practice helped him realize that if a woman was smart enough to know her limitations, he should grant her request.
1 person likes this
@shannon76 (1232)
• United States
11 Jun 07
That's awesome you found such a doctor! Maybe we should require all doctors to work with welfare/lower income familes so they can see that huh!
1 person likes this
@KrisNY (7591)
• United States
10 Jun 07
I think it would be ok- I'm Pro-Choice- I think it a woman's choice- But yes I agree-- this is something that all women could stand together and fight for- I think that when I decide I'm ready to stop having children- no matter my age-- as long as it is me deciding- I should have the right-
@shannon76 (1232)
• United States
11 Jun 07
Exactly. I think that if a woman has a right to choose to have an abortion at any age then she should be able to have the choice to be steralized as well.
1 person likes this
@Amstardam (1348)
• United States
13 Jun 07
Are you serious? There is really such a law stating that we cannot get our tubes tied until we're over the age of 35 or have 3 or more kids? That is not right. I'm only in my mid twenties and have one child. We will probably have one more but we don't want more than that. If we have another child it will be within the next year or two...well before I turn 35 and I planned on having my tubes tied after I give birth to my next child. I don't believe in abortion but I don't want an accidental pregnancy because the doctors refused to tie my tubes!
2 people like this
• United States
10 Jun 07
Shannon, Hello, nice to meet you... What an interesting topic, and to this discussion I would ask, what do you want for your daughter? I find that when we make choices based not on our own desires or wishes but upon what we would expect for others, our children and their partners we tend to find a clarity that didn't exist before. What is the best way to raise children? Do we tell them what to do or do we teach them how they should respond and the best way to get through is to place the burden on them for their decision and how they would want their children to behave. This makes the child the grown up making tough choices for their children and applying those choices to themselves. Being involved as a parent, doing things with the children inviting the boyfriend along, yes I have a daughter. We can do things together, if we so choose and this keeps everyone accountable and transparent. I think we need to teach people to be more accountable for their actions and to be involved with their families and the lives of their children. As I wrote in the Homosexuality thread of Jimbo there is a great divide between the pro-choice movement and the pro-life movement. Sterilization will not be the rallying call for both groups, in fact anything that has the ability to be abused such as forced sterilization or other forced medications I'm totally against. The real issue is first getting the right words taught and heard at all levels of government from schools to court houses but that is a dream and only a dream that I and a few others carry. Honesty... Help others; tell the truth
2 people like this
@eden32 (3975)
• United States
12 Jun 07
As a pro-choice person, I would absolutely support this as well. I don't know that it would make a huge impact on the number of abortions preformed, but I am sure it would have some impact. For me, supporting choice means pretty much supporting all choices adults make for their bodies. If an adult woman (or man) knows they do not want to ever have children, who am I to tell them they are mistaken? If sterilization seems a reasonable choice to them, they should have that right.
@shannon76 (1232)
• United States
12 Jun 07
I don't know that it would have a huge impact but even a small inpact would be better then none right? =)
1 person likes this