Do/should/does it make sense that Christians believe in free will?
By soadnot
@soadnot (1606)
Canada
June 11, 2007 8:56am CST
It does not make sense for a Christian to not believe in free will.
If free will does not exist....then God knows everything in advance before it happens.
60-70 percent of the world population is non-Christian. Christianity believes that he or she who rejects Christ will eternally perish(burn).
If God knows the future...then God knows in advance who will reject christ and who will not. Then...God knows in advance who will go to heaven and who will eternally perish.
How can this be?
Why would God send his son to die on the cross for our sins? He knows in advance that 60-70% of todays population...roughly 3.5 billion people...are going to eternally perish when he makes that decision.
What kind of God would do that and make that decision? It does not make sense to me.
Though I am not a Christian...I have a great deal of respect for it and all religions. Unless you support free will however...it does not make sense to me.
In the end, however, Christians believe god IS omnipotent, so he must be all knowing and must know the future..
someone help me understand this, Calvinism.
2 people like this
5 responses
@missak (3311)
• Spain
27 Jun 07
Well... your basical idea is good, but I find it is more interesting to take it from a general perspective than just with a christian sight. So I will only answer to your main question about free will vs omnipotent being. When you get my point then I'll give you my opinion on other christian facts/beliefs.
As you stated, the religious determinism claims since God (Godess or whatever) is omnipotent, God knows and controls everything, so we have no free will.
I hate this idea, and freedom is for me the most precious value, so I looked into these councepts deeper. One side, we have the free will itself, the other side, the omnipotency which actually means power.
So what directly comes to my mind is that power is a political or economical affair. What does God has to do with politics or economy? Not much. So I conclude that actually the "omnipotency" is a human eager that maybe God is not concerned with.
We humans have this weaknes of ego that makes as wanting more and more, and thinking we will get that with power. So in a primitive thought, we may think that God has this totalitary power. But in my opinion, God is over that, and don't has this need for controlling others to feed selfish feelings.
So God is not exactly omnipotent. But God does have some powers we don't have, since God is over all. The most wonderful of thoose powers is precisely the capacity of giving as freedom. We ourselfs can not create something and give it freedom, we just can approach that by making a robot programmed to make things, but never create an actual soul with decision capacity.
So God is "omnipotent" since God can give us freedom. There is no oxymoron, in my opinion. Exactly the contrary.
@missak (3311)
• Spain
27 Jun 07
Did you read my conclusion? I find God omnipotent in that way: God has the capacity of giving freedom, which is more "potent" (powerful) than knowing things or controlling toys.
Anyways there is not an actual need to worship god, but it is nice to give thanks for freedom and Inspiration.
@soadnot (1606)
• Canada
27 Jun 07
it does not matter if its your opinion.. the fact is that god is either all knowing OR there is no free will.
this is because..
Z created X
Z knew Y before X existed
X created Y
therefore
Y was created before X and Y was created by X.
therfor Z created X TO CREATE Y.
therfor Y and X were both created by Z
Z=god
X=humans
Y=will
that is why it is either or.. its logic.
2 people like this
@ElicBxn (63259)
• United States
11 Jun 07
And what about all the people that never had a chance to ever hear about Christianity in the days before the whole world was tied into the information superhighway?
If someone doesn't know about Christianity, they are not judged on the same level as someone who does & has rejected it. This does include people that have "heard" about it, but never really been exposed to it.
@soadnot (1606)
• Canada
27 Jun 07
i guess your right for my B, i change that to
B) pointless omnipotence
lol
but your opinion on worshiping something that is incomprehensible is wrong i think.
INCOMPREHENSIBLE. there is no way of understanding it even if you try. you cannot understand ANY of it. thats how huge it is. so basicly, there is no point, because we dont even have a %0.1
2 people like this
@missak (3311)
• Spain
27 Jun 07
I have to admit it was good. I agree my second post was pointless, it was just a logical joke, like the one that starts with 1=2 and demonstrate it with pseudo mathematics that many wouldn't realize where the trick is (you can find this here mylot if you don't know it).
But the first post was exactly like your "B" option. Only that I don't agree with your conclusion on worshiping.
I can worship an idea (Inspiration) an energy (Mother Nature) an animal or living being, my ancestors... and all thoose are not omnipotent as well. In many religions the Creator God over all is not worshiped, but instead they worship the semi-gods that are more proximal to us (and more imperfect and less powerful).
I find worshiping a linguistical and love relationship. You can't actually have this relationship with something that is so far from us (as you stated in C, I think the same for A).
@missak (3311)
• Spain
27 Jun 07
By the way, if "life can't be pointless" what is the "point" of life?
Some atheistics say when we are finding a "point" for life we are dramatizing it and we are wrong. What do you think of this?
I know you have not said nothing about yourself, I am curious where do you think you are (A, B, C or D). I have already said I am more like B.
