TAX PROTESTERS! Patroits or Criminals?
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
United States
June 13, 2007 8:00am CST
In New Hampshire there is a married couple whose home and property is surrounded by Federal Officers because they have not surrended themselves into custody.
Ed and Elaine Brown are tax protesters who have refused to pay any income taxes on a reported income of 1.9 million dollars over several years.
Of course, the government has charged them with tax evasion. They have already had a trial. They were convicted. Now, the Browns are threatening to shoot anyone who might attempt to take them into custody. Hence, all the armed men.
Here's an url with more information:
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070425/REPOSITORY/704250341
I'm of the opinion these people are not patroits standing up for the rest of us, which is what they claim. These people are convicted criminals in denial about their crimes.
What is your opinion? What do think of all this? Are Ed and Elaine Brown heroes or bad guys?
5 people like this
11 responses
@pallidyne (858)
• United States
13 Jun 07
They had their day in court. They lost, they have the right to appeal.
Being an Patriot in the US means a few things--- one of which is a believe in the Constitution and the distribution of power created by it, including a Judicial Branch that has the power to settle disputes. Taking up arms in protest of it is sedition, not patriotism. As they will have to kill at least a few patriots, the men and women putting their lives on the line for the security of these United States to win this battle.
4 people like this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
13 Jun 07
I'm agreeing with you. They had due process. They did not like the outcome. The only question in my mind is whether or not they are delusional.
2 people like this
@Latrivia (2878)
• United States
13 Jun 07
The "I don't want to pay taxes, so I'm going to take up arms and restist arrest in order to get my case noticed," bit doesn't fly with me. I don't want to pay taxes, but like any American, I have to. It's how our government makes money(along with a few other methods). Sounds to me like someone just doesn't want the rules to apply to him.
Regardless, these people are criminals, and should be treated as such.
3 people like this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
13 Jun 07
I really do not know why everybody does not agree with you. I'm guessing there are just some people who like conflict and confrontation.
2 people like this
@chiyosan (30184)
• Philippines
14 Jun 07
i think they still have the right to refuse the government their income taxes! haha i really hate our government with all the taxes they get from us, who worked really hard and even our over time have taxes in it!!! can you just believe that?! i mean, we work hard and politicians suck the money out of our pockets and we dont see improvements in the city.. or the country.
1 person likes this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
14 Jun 07
Everyone has the right to not pay or refuse to pay their income taxes. Then they will have the duty and obligation to go to prison.
This is how the system works.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
13 Jun 07
People forget that "civil disobedience" does not excuse anyone from the crimes they commit. It is a respected means of affecting change, but part of the reason it is respected is those who use it are usually committed enough to be willing to face the legal penatlies too.
Let them use civil disobedience to make their point... but let them pay the price for their cause.
2 people like this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
13 Jun 07
That's right! If they are such patroits, let them serve their time in prison to make their point, not kill real patroits enforcing the law.
3 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
13 Jun 07
If they go to prison they will get their wish... They won't have to pay taxes. :~D
@Destiny007 (5805)
• United States
13 Jun 07
They are criminals...plain and simple. Simply saying that the court has no jurisdiction does not work, and ratified or not, income tax has become the law of the land.
It kind of puts a whole new spin on the "voluntary contribution" that they used to claim income tax was.
2 people like this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
13 Jun 07
Yep, I do not know who these people think they are fooling.
1 person likes this
@EvanHunter (4026)
• United States
13 Jun 07
This reminds me a whole lot of Ruby Ridge. I can see why they feel the way they do but I sure dont see the government just standing back and letting them camp out at home forever. Everyone has to pay taxes I know there is alot of bickering about it being unconstitutional. I dont see how they got away with working for so long without paying taxes. I think this must be something from years ago becuase now if you claim exempt they check into it right away and if your records dont match they usually force the employer to change it right away. I dont see this ending peacefully thats for sure especailly if they can only gather the support of 15 people.
2 people like this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
13 Jun 07
I believe they were self employed, so no withholding was involved.
Believe it or not, if you simply do not file, it takes the IRS many years to catch up with you. They always do and the consequences are severe, but the IRS does have a list of who is supposed to file that they check off names from as the returns come in.
This laxity of enforcement causes many foolish people to push the system to its limit.
1 person likes this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
13 Jun 07
OOPS... Meant to say above, "The IRS does NOT have a list they check names off from as the returns come in."
1 person likes this
@TDonald (1421)
• United States
14 Jun 07
You have to give them credit for standing up for what they believe. Taxes and especially the tax collection process are already way beyond the point of ridiculous.
I don't agree with the threat of violence... from either side. If taxes weren't so bad the government wouldn't need armed officers to collect them.
And one final point, any jury in the U.S.A. has the obligation to decide if the LAW that a person is charged with violating, is just or unjust. It's called Jury Nullification. It's one of the most powerful things citizens have to protect themselves from politicians who have never read the U.S. Constitution.
Find out more about Fully Informed Juries at http://www.fija.org/
1 person likes this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
14 Jun 07
I think jury nullification should be taught in high school. Way too many people merely trust the justice system and our government.
When I was in high school, we were taught why we had juries as opposed to a panel of lawyers schooled in the law to evaluate the evidence. Today, I don't think students are even told the truth of that.
@lingli_78 (12822)
• Australia
14 Jun 07
i think that they are really wrong... as a citizen, it is our duty to pay income tax to the government as long as the government use the money for the welfare of the citizen... even in the Bible it is stated that we have to give back what belongs to God (that is, one tenth of our income we have to give it to the church to support the church activities) and what belongs to the government... in this case, it is the income tax... i think it is just fair and the right thing to do...
1 person likes this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
14 Jun 07
If paying my income tax allows me to live in a relatively peaceful country like the USA, it is worth it.
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
13 Jun 07
It is obvious that these people are Criminals. They were charged and found guilty - that alone makes them criminals. Resisting arrest just means an additional trial and even more jail tiem IF they don't get themselves killed in the process.
They have been living here in the US for years taking advantage of everything that other people's tax dollars have provided them with - police, fire, roads to drive on, schools, etc. They have freeloaded for years; they got caught; and now they have to pay the penalty.
This reminds me of an old; but, true saying: "If you can't do the time; don't do the crime."
1 person likes this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
14 Jun 07
Yes, they have commited a serious crime and the bill for that has come due.
Which reminds me, they spent a large sum of money building their house. They tried to launder the money with money orders below the amount which must be reported to the government. This is the act of a criminal, not a patroit protester.
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
13 Jun 07
How about "diminished mental capacity" ? I actually heard this man on the radio giving an interview. My first thought was he might be slightly insane, but no, that's not it. Diminished mental capacity is about the right phrase.
1 person likes this
@yemberzal (301)
• India
14 Jun 07
Taxes are not godly affair but it becomes godly because when a person is a citizen of a country, he has to abide by the rules framed by that country and to oney the country laws is as good as obeying God. However, i could not find out why they do not want to pay tax, and if they their taxes are used in wrong manner by the rulers, he can take them in the court of law and prove his case and if they have no reasons, they have broken law and law can take its course of action, but in my opinion, i can not say they are not patriotic .
1 person likes this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
14 Jun 07
If we take these people at their word, they are patriotic. They will tell you so.
I question that because they threaten to shoot our government's employees who try to enforce the decision of our government's courts.
If shooting, threatening to kill, and violence were their only choice, I could see their point. However, no one took away their freedom of speech. They are free to speak out. They could organize others to change the law. No one is stopping them.
Except, almost no one will support them in their effort which is tranparently only about them not paying taxes, being selfish, breaking the law, and having more money.
