Methaphysics: natural or supernatural?

The very term "Metaphysics" describes everything what is thought to be beyond the physical world. Believers of Nature-based religions have generally a monistic worldview, where natural phenomena like trees, fountains, rivers, mountains, Earth herself, Sun, Moon, etc. are animated by spirits. The believer sees himself as part of this all spiritual world, without perceiving a separation beween Nature and his person, neither in his wake state, nor in meditation or dreams. Animism is mainly practiced by precivilized people who have to supervive Nature's hostile conditions and try to propiciate its spirits. It is a prestage to polytheism, but in the 1960's it sumerged in postmodern society in form of the "New Age" movement, an animistic worldview presented in multiple forms, creeds and beliefs. All of the former consider Nature as spiritual and not natural phenomen. Christian faith, which is not an Abrahamic religion, as are Judaism and Islam, agrees with hem in an entirely different worldview: Nature is the material creation originated by an entirely spiritual, following supernatural, God. Man, as God's exceptional creation, is both natural -in his mortal body-, and supernatural -in his immortal spirit. Oh, and Francis of Assis loved Nature and all of the creatures, because he saw God's work in them. Thanks for reading this rather long post, but some kind of thoughts can't be expressed with less... :)

Hi Missak, I have just come across your discussion and find the responses fascinating. Before commenting I would like to know if you or any others sharing in the discussion have seen the movie What The Bleep...Down the Rabbits Hole. If you have not...it is worth taking a look it. I presents some thought-provoking discussions about energy-based thinking. Also for those looking for more information about metaphysics and spirituality...it might be useful to check out Unity Truth Center's website...they are a metaphyscially based organization without prejudice or bias and provide all kinds of educational information on this subject and empowering living concepts. Now for my comments on the idea of what is natural, supernatural, God, spirit, etc. In my view all of IT and EVERYTHING in the universe everything is energy-based...even that which appears solid has molecular resonances of energy. Those of us who see the world through energy-based eyes consider everything...natural...even those resonances beyond immediate paramaters. We are all a part of everything that is...and it is unfortunate more cannot grasp the ripple effect of choice/consequence in the oneness of it all. Ahh, but that is another topic. Your point about calling energy-based manifestations including God, spirit etc. supernatural is an interesting view that I agree with. I have a really hard time with labels and stereotypical 'diminishers', especially this one. Throughout history people who lived/love within a five-sense, three dimentional reality have a hard time with the abstract or intangible realites that are beyond their radar screen. However, that does not mean they do not exist. Just because they cannot be heard, tasted, touched, smelled or or course...seen. Most great religions have some things in common...that we are spiritual beings going through human experiences...that there are energies that run through our body and leave when it shuts down...and that our thoughts are the foundation of everything that has ever been created on this plane of reality. Energy cannot be destroyed...only transformed and that is a natural process within the elements and everything else. Fire burns, creates ashes...returns to earth etc. All very natural in the cycles of life and transformation change. Whether it is the birth of a child, or the construction of any physical thing..it was borne in the mind of someone or it would not be here. Hmmmm sounds like some other Creator...whatever we decide to call Him/Her. Metaphysics is how the energies affect outer realities...energy manifesting as a result of our thoughts....sounds all very natural to me...but then this is just my perspective.

Hi Missak, I just wanted to check in to say I haven't forgotten about you. I've been thinking about how to best answer in this discussion, and have decided it would be too much work to post here. (As an atheist, I often find simply stating what I believe, can come across as an attack on people of other faiths, and I don't want to have to write a huge post qualifying my position. I also have no interest in arguing with anyone about their personal spiritual beliefs). You and I have built up a lot of background with one another in the atheist discussion, so I think I'll post a response there. I'll let you know which section I post in, as soon as it's done. All the best for now. Tanya

Speaking purely from opinion here, I think labeling something as "supernatural" is a way of giving yourself an excuse for your behavior towards that thing/being. Whether that behavior is fear, worship, skepticism, whatever. It all seems to be a way of classifying and segregating those things that we cannot fully understand. All the things you mentioned here: deities, spirits, angels, even our own human soul... those are things that human beings have not yet been able to measure and examine fully. Therefore, supernatural. I don't think it has anything to do with the actual existence of these things, but rather with the way we look at them. Thanks for asking my opinion by the way! I feel special now. =)

I think that you have a great idea there. If we accept it then it is natural. I think that the idea of calling God supernatural is kind of strange myself because if you believe in God then he becomes kind of a part of you. This can't be supernatural. I agree that calling anything spiritual supernatural is used to create hierarchies in the mind. I think that religions do this so that we look at God as better than everyone else and then we start maiking hierarchies with other people as well. This is how people have decided that the white race is superior to African Americans and other races. This is not true but in a world of hierarchies it can be gotten away with.

I think that you have a great idea there. If we accept it then it is natural. I think that the idea of calling God supernatural is kind of strange myself because if you believe in God then he becomes kind of a part of you. This can't be supernatural. I agree that calling anything spiritual supernatural is used to create hierarchies in the mind. I think that religions do this so that we look at God as better than everyone else and then we start maiking hierarchies with other people as well. This is how people have decided that the white race is superior to African Americans and other races. This is not true but in a world of hierarchies it can be gotten away with.

No arguments from me. I guess we just feel the need to classify everything. And naturally those things that we can't see and touch must be labelled as supernatural, metaphysical, or paranormal.

it could be quantum physics.

Well I think in a way, metaphysics are both natural and supernatural. They are natural in every way because everyone has the power within them to develop metaphysical abilities if they have the desire and will to do so. Sometimes I think of metaphysical abilities as supernatural though because some people are just born with it and don't have to work at it while others do. Metaphysical abilities do run in my family. My mother and I do have some abilities we were born with in the psychic area. Mine seem to be stronger than hers. I'm not sure if it's the sort of thing that gets stronger with every generation or not. Maybe I'm just stronger than her because she is afraid of her abilities and I'm not. Fear does tend to be one of the biggest obstacles when trying to develop these sorts of abilities. Ok well I'm just rambling and I'm not exactly sure where I'm going with this so I'll stop now.

Wow, You have created a bit of a parodox here. What is the nature of the Super-Natural? All of creation is that of nature, When dealing with the Super Natural we are dealing with something outside of nature. The Creater can be exspressed in nature and like wise in some religions Nature itself becomes the Creator. The distinction though is that everything made can be explained and defined as Nature. The Angels haveing been created are by definition then a natural being, as real as you and me and able therefor to be seen as a flower as you said. Perhaps the reason though that angels are put in to the catagory of super-nateral is not to describe their phisical atrabutes but the things they can do that seems to defiy nature. The Creater himself (I use a generic Him) though is totaly outside of nature makeing his nature above nature. He alone is supernatural, and so all his creation even though maybe missunderstood or unable to be comprohinded is only "natural"

Usually natural is the term for things mundane and that follows the certain rules set by nature. Rules and principles of the universe is Governed by God that is natural and god is above the natural order because he was the one who created it in the first place therefore he is metaphysical, Meta being changeable, God in his spiritual form as so some angels are not bound by the physical world because they have a glorified body not found in our world. They are consciousness pure energy of sentient beings and therefore above the set rules of physics, physics is the study of the behavior of physical items to other items in the physical world that's why it is Physics because it is physical.