I AM sympathetic to illegal immigrants and I&#39;ll tell you why...

@coferbox (298)

• United States

5 Jul 07

The difference between immigration today and immigration one hundred or more years ago is that the immigrants then wanted to be Americans. They came here, they applied for citizenship, they embraced American and all it stood for and wanted to be a part of it. There is no more 'melting pot', illegals don't melt in - they don't apply for citizenship, they stay separate in their own neighborhoods, and they don't take the responsibility of being an American. They come in with they hand out the minute they cross the border and the thought of giving something back is not even an issue with them. I think the best thing we could do to reduce illegal immigration is to open the borders - but have an IRS agent standing the crossing points taking personal information and handing out withholding forms.

7 people like this

@miamilady (4910)

• United States

5 Jul 07

Maybe "they" stay in "their" own neighborhoods because they don't feel welcome here. Clearly, for the most part, they are not welcome. Try to remember, their are three sides to every story. The saying, as I learned it, is "his side, her side and the truth, which is somewhere in the middle". That applies in just about every situation. Thank you both for your responses. I'm interested in what everyone has to say.

4 people like this

@coferbox (298)

• United States

5 Jul 07

Not all immigrants stay in their own neighborhoods. When I said 'they' I was referring to the illegals who come here only to take. My daughter has several neighbors who are legal Hispanic immigrants. They are buying their houses, go to work each day, do yard work on weekends, in short are living the American Dream and I say more power to them. They all seem like very nice families. The immigrants I have a problem with are the illegals.

4 people like this

@coferbox (298)

• United States

5 Jul 07

You know there was a time in this country when the people were mistreated by the English. But they didn't run away - they stood and fought and risked their life and everything they worked for to make life better where they were. They loved this land and thought it was worth fighting for. So they stood up to the English made things better, they risked their life to make a better country for their children and future generations. I didn't happen overnight and there was a lot of hardship and people lost their life. But look at the great country their descendants (us) have as a result. Fast forward to today and you have these people that say life is hard where they are and they are being mistreated by the government but instead of working and fighting to make things better they will just sneak into another country illegally and take advantage of what they have. Do you see the difference between these two groups of people? I am not without sympathy for many of these people it doesn't give them the right to break the law. These people are not breaking some rules - they are breaking the law. What you are saying would be suggesting that bank robbers just break some rules because they need money and we should be sympathetic because he really needed the money. It's the same thing - you are saying that we should be sympathetic to people that come in and take from our country without giving anything back or putting anything in first.

5 people like this

show previous comments

@coferbox (298)

• United States

5 Jul 07

Well technically the people who fought for our freedom against England were not the same people who left England because of being their beliefs. They were a few generations apart. But the people who left England didn't go to another country to live off what other people had built. They traveled to a strange land where they faced the unknown. They literally started from scratch in the new world. There was not government housing or social programs waiting on them when they arrived. They didn't know what to expect when they arrived here. They had to built their own houses and hunt for their own food. I dare say that was a far cry from what they were used to in England. I don't know how you can even begin to compare the first settlers of this country to illegal immigrants today.

1 person likes this

@coferbox (298)

• United States

6 Jul 07

Well that is another thing that I think needs to be changed. Babies shouldn't be US citizens just for being born here. There was a time in the early days of this country when that law served a purpose. Now all it serves is to produce 'anchor' babies for illegal aliens. They can't be deported if they have baby that is a US citizen. That baby also entitles them to all sorts of social programs they they have never paid a single penny of US tax to help support. I think at least one parent should be here legally (either a citizen or green card) before the baby is a US citizen. Another thing to think about on that 'baby is a US citizen' is the wealthy citizens from other countries take advantage of that law also. Especially countries form the Middle East, when the babies are born and their US citizenship documented they are taken back to the Middle East where they are taught to hate America. When these kids are grown they will be able to come and go from the US as they please without ever having to be documented. They will have a US passport. Is that law allowing our enemies to produce generations of 'Osama Bin Ladens' who had the US but can come and go from here as they please without being detected. Even if you don't agree with changing that law based on the illegal aliens 'anchor babies' you might want to rethink it based on how vulnerable it makes us to our enemies.

2 people like this

@miamilady (4910)

• United States

5 Jul 07

I'll be the first to admit that I am not a history buff by any means. But, I thought that other than the Native Americans. Everbody came here from somewhere else. That would mean, they didn't stay in their original country to fight for their beliefs. So, no. I don't see the difference. I thought America was formed because the people here did not agree with Brittish rules. Sure they fought for their beliefs while they were on this land, but they left their homeland first. Again, I'm not a history buff, maybe I have that wrong. Unless you have never gone above the speed limit and have never Jaywalked etcetera. You have broken laws as well. I know...there are different levels of laws, but I'm sure you get my point. I hope. Desperate people do desperate things. I'm not saying it's okay to take from others and hurt others, but everyone has been guilty of poor judgement at one time or another in their life. Even in saying that I feel like I'm not reflecting my feelings correctly, because it may not always BE poor judgement for them to come here illegally. Each case is different. In some cases your arguments are correct. There are SOME criminal minded people and some people who are just plain ungrateful and won't have any intersted in paying back anything. But there are some people who are probably using good judgement by getting out of their situation by any means necessary. I'm sorry but I don't think everything in life is black or white. There are a lot of gray areas and sometimes the end does justify the means.

4 people like this

@coferbox (298)

• United States

6 Jul 07

I think I have realized something as I have just read over the posts. We are not all speaking of the same thing. Many of you are using the term illegal alien to describe refugees from war torn countries. These people are allowed political asylum in other countries and have no problem getting - as well they should. I'm sure most of the immigrant you have in Europe are from this group. When I use the term illegal alien I am referring to the different groups that are over running the US which are not from war torn countries and are not in need of political asylum. These people don't come here because they are in fear of their life. They come here because they know they can get hand outs from the government. And unlike the immigrants that other posters have described that don't or are unable to sent money back to their country that is exactly what these people are doing. Many of these people never make any attempt to become legal us citizens or even apply for a green card. The good news is that illegal immigration from these people is slacking off in the US. The bad news is that it is because our economy is on the decline. And they are a large part of the reason for that. They are sucking us dry by taking and taking and putting nothing back in. Now that we have less they don't want to come here as much as they did. As I stated in a previous post regardless of what the rest of the world seems to think we don't have unlimited resources in this country. Like every other country there is a limit on how much we can support and we have almost reached that limit.

3 people like this

worldwise1

@worldwise1 (14885)

• United States

7 Jul 07

I couldn't have said it better coferbox. What some people are overlooking is the fact that if conditions in these people's country are so terrible, they need to be plotting a revolution to bring about change in their own country rather than coming here to drain ours. Another thing you pointed out is the fact that many of them have no desire to even learn our language or assimilate into our society. They just want the benefits that are so freely doled out. Also true, they are sending enormous amounts of money back into their country for their families there when they should be trying to stay there and make it better.

1 person likes this

rosie_123

@rosie_123 (6113)

•

5 Jul 07

Well - I have to say - great post and respect to you for it. Over the months I have spent here at MyLot, I have been very saddened and upset to read a lot of the posts here made by American people against imnigrants - it seems like they think they are the devil incarnate! Coming from someone living in the UK, where we pride ourselves on opening our doors to all, and having a mixed and multi-cultural society - I find it very hard to accept. After all, to put in bluntly, - to an "old school" European like myself, the whole American nation is made of of immigrants from just a couple of generations back, and yet some people seem to begrudge anyone else having the chances that their ancestors had just a few hundred years ago! Have they really such short memories? Or is it just that 350 years sounds an age away to people in the US, whereas we here tend to measure our history in thousands of years? My Mother was what you call an immigrant to the UK - my partner is Hispanic, - both found their homes here in the UK without any of the vitriol and bitterness that seems to be hurled at their like in the States. Also, I work with refugees here, - so I really do know the sad stories behind many of their efforts to escape to freedom. I think your post makes some great and valid points. Of course there are bad people amongst your "illegals" - but there are bad people eerywhere. Gve the a break - an thanks for your wonderful post.

3 people like this

@coferbox (298)

• United States

5 Jul 07

There are two different types of immigrants - legal and illegal. Which kind do you have in the UK? What you say about American being made up of immigrants in the early days is true, but there is much that is different between the two groups of people, as I pointed out in another post. My of my ancestors were Irish and one of my grandmothers most prized processions was a certified copy of my great-great-great grandfathers certificate of naturalization - he applied for citizenship as soon as he got off the boat. I have no problem with legal immigrants regardless of where they are from. My problem is with illegal immigrants. These people don't come here to be US citizens and they aren't looking for chances and they aren't looking to give anything back. Regardless of what the rest of the world seems to think the resources here are not limitless, we can't support everyone. Perhaps it is time some people grew some backbone and tried to make things better where they are.

4 people like this

rosie_123

@rosie_123 (6113)

•

5 Jul 07

Well everyone from a former "Commonwealth" country, or from any other country in the EU has automatic right of entry anyway. Most of the others tend to get here "illegally" and claim asylum as soon as they land on our shores. After all - it is pretty hard to deal with all the paperwork etc if you're homeless and penniless and dodging bullets in Iran or Somalia or somewhere. As for growing "backbone" - well that is a nice ideal, but in many countries of the world, there is famine and war - and it is hard to grow backbone, when you're a single, widowed Mother with five children under the age of 8 to feed, and your 8 year old daughter has already been raped. And yes - that happens all the time to many people in Third World countries. If they can get to a safer place - I say good luck to them.

4 people like this

@miamilady (4910)

• United States

5 Jul 07

rosie, thanks for your response, I'm glad I'm not alone in my sympathy.

4 people like this

jillmalitz

@jillmalitz (5131)

• United States

5 Jul 07

There are a lot of people who have risked life and limb to come here. This is historic. I can understand the desire to improve the quality of life, but not at the expense of others. Sure a lot of Americans do not want the jobs that these people are willing to take. Minimum wage here is a lot better than in Mexico. But these are the same people who overuse our medical, social, and education systems. Our taxes pay for this overload. We have to work within our system to improve things. Some wont wait. Then what do you say to the people who immigrated legally who left families, homes, and jobs behind to start a new better life here. Many legal immigrants are still waiting to bring families here. We cant have one law for some and another law for others. I live in Texas which has a large illegal immigrant population. They continue to come and tax our resources severely. I don not oppose immigration, I do oppose those who immigrate illegally.

3 people like this

illegal immigrants

@coferbox (298)

• United States

5 Jul 07

There are people who would take the jobs that illegal immigrants take - they just won't do them for the extremely low wages that the immigrants will. Stats show that the wages of Americans 'working poor' has dropped 17 percent over the last few years because of illegal immigrants and the effect they have on our job market. I don't know which is worse - the illegal immigrants or US citizens that take advantage of the situation by paying these people below minimum wage.

3 people like this

@coferbox (298)

• United States

6 Jul 07

I guess if you want to pick apart and take every case one by one then you can do the same to crimes committed by US citizens also. But where do you draw the line? When something is illegal then it is illegal. Can you really allow people to break the law because they feel they had a good reason? For the record, there was a time in my life when I was the mother working two jobs to make ends met- but I didn't hire an illegal alien to watch my child while I was at work.

1 person likes this

@miamilady (4910)

• United States

5 Jul 07

That's a good point. What about those American's who take advantage of the illegals. Personally I think they ARE worse than the illegals themselves. But then, even the term "taking advantage of" can be picked apart. Some of these people are just being cheap and trying to get the cheaped help available. Wether they can afford fair wages or not. Some of these people are becoming wealthy at the expense of others. In my opinion, that makes them far worse thant he people who are in desperate need of change and help. Then there is the single mom of 3, trying to get ahead herself. Working two jobs, but needs someone to watch her kids while she goes to work. She can barely afford to put food on the table for her own kids but she needs someone to watch her kids while she works. So, she hires an illegal because that's all she can afford. I guess we should judge her too.

3 people like this

RosieS57

@RosieS57 (889)

• United States

5 Jul 07

I think we can put people into groups and perhaps we should. We just need to be a lot more careful about the groups we're discussing. I don't think these immigrants ought to be 'illegal' at all! When you look at this hemisphere, English speaking whites are a minority and that situation is only going to increase. I'm not Hispanic although I look Hispanic and I get slurs flung at me by Americans who think I'm Hispanic. I was born in Kansas! But I lived in Miami for 23 years and became fluent in Spanish there. Latinos will be the in the majority in the US in 2050. At that time the US will blend in with the rest of the natives of the Western Hemisphere. So don't worry about all of those freaking out over the 'illegals' -- they'll be so drowned out by Latino bi-linguals that this is their last stand. Wall or no wall you cant stop progress. What you hear is fear; but I'm not afraid. By the way, I am also of Native American heritage and we so-called Indians are taking back this Nation - one nickel at a time (in the slot machines). Just another threat to the rule of White Men that is coming to a close. Feel sorry for the White Men but don't worry too much about it.

3 people like this

western hemisphere

Juanamomof5

@Juanamomof5 (429)

• United States

5 Jul 07

I love your comment I come from a mix of Native American and Mexican descent. God Bless You I just loved it.

2 people like this

whiteheather39

@whiteheather39 (24403)

• United States

5 Jul 07

Rosie I just read your response again and your last sentence "Feel sorry for the White Men but don't worry too much about it." Just screams racism. How sad to be so bigoted.

2 people like this

RosieS57

@RosieS57 (889)

• United States

5 Jul 07

Gracias, Juana! :-)

1 person likes this

no excuse for violation of law

estherlou

@estherlou (5015)

• United States

8 Jul 07

It is always amazing to me when someone is more sympathetic to the one who is illegal, or the one committing a crime than the ones who are trying to be good citizens! Here is a great place to get some more info on illegal immigration and lots of good statistics. Check it out... http://immigrationcounters.com/

2 people like this

bonbon664

@bonbon664 (3466)

• Canada

6 Jul 07

You are a better person than me. I don't have sympathy for illegal immigrants. Here in Canada, we have a problem, but, not to the extent that the US has. If in fact their lives are so bad in the country they're coming from, they can come here as refugees. Once here, they prove that that was in fact the case, and they can stay. Not a problem. If they're lives are in danger, come here, we'll take you. If not, go through the regular channels that law abiding applicants go through. Immigrants are a crucial part to the country, without them, the population would go down pretty fast. So, in general, immigrants are fine, refugees ok, but illegals, buh bye....back you go.

3 people like this

stella1989

@stella1989 (2274)

• India

6 Jul 07

WOw..!! You are really a kind hearted person..!! See there are two different ways of thinking about this topic..!! Think Economically. Then these immigerants are total criminals. Violating the rules makes one criminal..!! They ARE taking away the jobs and many more things..!! But Thinking from the point of view from an individual human. Then a human can even kill for surviving. this surviving thing makes human steal,kill and many more..!!So why not immigrating to other country rather than killing someone kill some few rules..!! I am in the border line for this topic as I have nothing to speak "for" the topic or "against" the topic...!! I liked this discussion..!! Interesting one. :)

2 people like this

@sumofalltears (3988)

• United States

5 Jul 07

How do you weed out the good ones to let them in and if we let the good ones in can we send the bad ones back? Sure I sympathize with these people, but there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough. If you had to yake them into your house you would say stop at some point.

2 people like this

@miamilady (4910)

• United States

5 Jul 07

Unfortunaley, there is no good solution, in my opinion. I guess the best we can do is try to "manage" the situation. I'm not claiming to know the answers, or to have a solution. I don't. I'm just saying that immigrants, even the illegal ones aren't all bad and I hate to how some people seem to have no sympathy for them whatsoever. Not you necessarily, but there are some out there who seem to have no sympathy at all.

2 people like this

worldwise1

@worldwise1 (14885)

• United States

7 Jul 07

I get where you're coming from, miami, but the fact still remains that it is a crime to enter the country illegally. I'm not trying to be judgemental here, just stating the facts. Sure, there are many people from all over the world who would risk their all to get a chance to live the American dream, but most of them go through the proper channels. I have heard many who migrated to this country legally speak out on this issue and they pretty much feel the same. Wanting to have a better life does not excuse flagrant violation of the law.

3 people like this

canjo13317

@canjo13317 (396)

• United States

5 Jul 07

just as you "understand" the immigrants feeling they need to go to extremes to better there lives, i understand that breaking the law is not the way to go about it. if that were the case, then how about i just go steal a car, as i can't afford a reliable on. and since i can't afford the insurance i will just drive it without it. since i am unemployed and can't pay my mortgage, i'll just go rob a store to get the cash needed. i won't hurt a sole while in the process of bettering myself, so it will be ok. do you now "understand" why we can't let "illegals" stay in our country? what type of message does that send? i do not have a problem with immigration, but it needs to be done by the book. if the book needs to be rewritten, then we rewrite it, but the laws that are in place still need to be followed until they are changed. if there country is so bad, and i'm not saying it isn't then why don't they stand up and fight for change in their country? its never going to get better if someone doesn't. these, of course, are all strictly my opinion. thanks for the discussion.

3 people like this

illegal immigrants

immigration

asawako48162

@asawako48162 (3321)

• United States

6 Jul 07

The US will never effectively stop the illegal immigrants from coming over the boarder. What will eventually happen is the government in the future will try to have us all wear a "v-chip" for legal citizenship status..also used for all purchases as soon our country will be going on a "cash less society"..no paper money or coin of the realm. Maybe you think this is all science fiction but the illegals and terrorist will be blamed for this "final solutions" ..they already use this chip in pets..and in some coutries they are experimenting with this on their citizens. Yes,we all feel sorry for the immigrants but only 2% of these illegals actually pick the crops.. When the war in Iraq winds down their will be millions of people from this part of the world too. Our country has always been the "promised land" for the immigrants of the world but sooner or later all things must come to an end. I am old and retired so it won't effect me or my family much. Already the car company's have lost out to the third world ghetto countries for a lot of manufacturing jobs. What I am mad at most is that countries like Mexico depend on the money that is sent back to them in order to surivive..the families that these people leave behind represent billions of dollars of revenue for these third world countries..it is quite a money drain on the US..plus the medical and other humanitary needs that these people will need. Already the garages in LA are being filled up with a lot of these families..such a sad thing for the US

2 people like this

why not

vicki2876

@vicki2876 (5636)

• Canada

6 Jul 07

Maybe because I am from Canada who's immigration laws are very relaxed I don't agree with illegal immigrants. Go through the process like everyone else did. However I don't believe in the money the governments want in order for someone to get citizenship, ranging in the thousands of dollars. Most people who migrate are looking for a better life and should be given the chance to start fresh not even more broke than they already probably are. And remember that unless you are a native you came from an immigrant coming into the country.

2 people like this

KrazyKlingon

@KrazyKlingon (5005)

• United States

6 Jul 07

Both sides of this argument have their merits, but yet, there is now a third side to this that is pretty much Bush's doing. The is a lot of problems, & at the same time, other factors. In today's day & age, it seems to take a lot longer, & it is a lot tougher to get paperwork processed towards legal immigration. That was the result from Bush taking a lot of the things normally done by immigration offices, & transferring some of that work load to Homeland Security. Some illegal immigrants end up having to leave their country & ending up in the United States to escape persecution (not just prosecution) for standing up for what was right. Then there are those who are truly criminals, that should be sent back to face the crime(s) committed back at their homeland. However, there are even other criminals who prey on these people trying to get onto American soil any way they can, such as some of these crime sindicates who accept a down payment from someone back at the other country, & then smuggle them into the USA. Once in the USA, they are forced into atrocotiees to pay off the rest. Some of these political people, such as people who stood up against an oppressing government that escaped their country to avoid prosecution for just saying the wrong thing, I can understand. I can also understand the wife of an American citizen, in which she was smuggled into the country, maybe with their children, because of the politics involved. It's those who committed heinous crimes back in their home country, & came to the USA to escape the law in their homelands that need to be dealt with.

2 people like this

@clownfish (3272)

• United States

5 Jul 07

"Who is any of us to judge them?" All I have to say is that two illegals killed my brother in cold blood. When they kill someone you love, you won't be sympathetic either.

1 person likes this

deport illegals

illegal mexicans murder

illegals are scum

illegals murder

murdering illegals

show previous comments

@clownfish (3272)

• United States

5 Jul 07

Talk about adding insult to injury! Unbelievable! "You probably won't care that I'm sorry about your brother either." How do you know what I do and don't care about? Could your reply have been any more insulting?

@clownfish (3272)

• United States

5 Jul 07

Your reply was nothing but condescending and nasty. "I'm sorry..... but I know that doesn't mean anything to you." What the hell are you thinking? There's no way on this earth I will EVER defend illegals. It's not up to YOU or anyone else to judge that, either. Next time, don't start a discussion without expecting opposing views and DON'T offer another bullsh*t apology like that!

1 person likes this

@miamilady (4910)

• United States

5 Jul 07

I truly am sorry for your loss. I also realize that probably means nothing to you. I'm sorry for that too. But I don't think its right to blame a whole race or group for what two people did. Hate the man who killed your brother but don't hate all illegals or all Mexicans or all anything. That's just my opinion. I respect your right to be angry.

1 person likes this

Lakota12

@Lakota12 (42600)

• United States

5 Jul 07

yes we dont know what they are excaping from! What I have read and seen their life is very very poor BUt when coming here they need to learn our langage so they can talk us also I dont feel like we need to pay for all the meds and stuff for them they come here to work well if they want to they pay taxes and not take advantage of al the free stuff and do nothing. They come here for better live then take on all that ges with being an American . Keep their culture is good but they need to follow our policys and respect us ! And I am talking about the illigals crossing our borders if they want a change why cant they stay on thier side and make a better for themselves there build up thier own country make it a better place I know there are very intelligent poeple that come here that could fight to make there country a better place then Tehy wouldnt have to come here and take advange of all the free stuff that cost us Americans our taxes! Well I had a post in here of the laws in MExico but I cant find it but it did say that no one allowed in thier country and get the things they get from ours. thats my 2 cents worth blessings to you

2 people like this

whiteheather39

@whiteheather39 (24403)

• United States

5 Jul 07

"Sure, some of them are criminals. Some of them have bad intentions and no regard for the law and no gratidute (gratitude) for our country when they get here. BUT "some" is not "all". What a profound statement and I have have a great answer ALL should come here legally. I am well aware of how the bleeding hearts feel about them. How about how the people who have been victims of the "bad" things they are doing to our country because they prefer to be criminals and not law abiding immigrant who are welcomed in our county. I am not judging them our country's lawmakers are the one who judge what is a legal or illegal action.

1 person likes this

bleeding heart garbage

@clownfish (3272)

• United States

5 Jul 07

Hi, Whiteheather! Read up to what miamilady said to me - they don't care that these people steal, rob, kill, whatever they want to do. I am completely appalled and disgusted that about what she said.

@clownfish (3272)

• United States

5 Jul 07

I would like to add that I wish you hadn't been put through such hell to become a citizen. They could become citizens, too, but choose not to. They choose to violate the laws of our country and the people. That's totally unfair and a slap in the face to people like you who did things the right and legal way. :-)

1 person likes this

Juanamomof5

@Juanamomof5 (429)

• United States

5 Jul 07

Okay I have been a victim of a crime from by an African American who broke into my apartment and tried to rape me while pregnant. Does this mean I should hate all black people? No I don't I don't care for the man who tried to do this to me but I don't blame all balck people.

2 people like this

judyt00

@judyt00 (3497)

• Canada

6 Jul 07

What really urks me about those people who are so against illegal immigrants are themselves only 3rd or 4th generation Americans themselves, and often their ancestors were illegals. Hell, more than half the people of Italian or Irish descent are the descendants of illegals.

2 people like this

us2owls

@us2owls (1681)

• United States

6 Jul 07

As a person who went through all the right channels - spent a lot of time getting all the paperwork done in order to get a visa to get into America and I was married to an American who was already back in the country, I had his child and had to get all sorts of paperwork done for her- then waited 5 years and once again went through all the channels, paperwork and tests to become a citizen I think that illegals should be transported back from whence they came. If they truly want to work and become a part of America then let them do it the legal way or let them stay away. I am sorry but this is how I feel as one that went about it the right way.

1 person likes this

illegals

whiteheather39

@whiteheather39 (24403)

• United States

6 Jul 07

Bravo! I am so glad to see a response from another person who, like myself, went through the correct channels to come legally to this country. I can also add 12 years of working for the US Government in Europe and North Africa to my background eight of these years I was married to an American and that did not make any difference in having to do it the right way.

1 person likes this