morality vs god.. can you be moral without god?
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
Canada
August 1, 2007 11:14pm CST
morality comes from man.. the oldest known moral laws that we have come from the code of Hammurabi in about 2000BC, and that is just a collection of older codes.. there are moral laws tracing back to Mesopotamia, the oldest civilization..7000BC (same time as the great Black Sea Flood... where all the bible stories come from btw).
this is all before religion.
if i do something wrong, there are laws to deal with me.
people accuse atheists of having no universal morals, and that we can make up our own laws...
who makes this stuff up?
we have a consciousness you know?
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people do things, whether bad or good, because they think it is right.
people who do things bad, and they know that its bad, are sociopaths.
things like lieing and cheating are not looked down apon in society as much as they should be..that is why it is still done, a lier or a cheater is not a sociopath because he or she, through nurture, learns that "its not so bad"..
that does not mean that killers will also be accepted in society.. and this is what religious people are saying when they refer to things such as universal morality.. what do you think?
5 people like this
7 responses
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
2 Aug 07
I believe that humans are basically moral, ethical and good in nature. So, whether or not anybody believes in a deity or follow a religion, one still can have morals and values. These morals and values, however, can be individually defined and followed. One person's morals will be different than others. While in case of religion they are uniformally accepted whether or not they are practiced.
2 people like this
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
2 Aug 07
i disagree.. why are there so many branches of religion? because they did not agree with each others morals.
3 people like this
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
6 Aug 07
ethics are uniform, morals are not.
2 people like this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
3 Aug 07
your disagreement is welcome fightingistheonlyway. Branches of different religions are sub-religions themselves, denominations to be precise. Yes, there are sometimes differences in moral values of branches, but let me tell you that branching isn't always based in change of moral values. There are some branches which are purely philosophical with identical moral code. Moral values are only a part of a religion, not a whole thing:-)
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
2 Aug 07
Actually, it's not before religion, it's just before specific religions that you know about. In fact, archeologists have found evidence that cavement carried out what looked like some form of religious ritual, meaning that religion has essentially been around as long as human beings have. So basing your timeline only on religions that are still known about and practiced is a flawed argument.
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
2 Aug 07
Which is, by the way, not to say that I don't agree with you that athiests can have morals. I know some very moral athiests, just as I know some religious people of various religious who have committed horrible crimes. I'm not arguing with your conclusion, simply with your proof.
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
2 Aug 07
oh and btw, it all had to do with astronomy and zodiac.. their son was their god, this can go back to 15 000 BC
2 people like this
@janet069 (663)
• United States
8 Aug 07
I don't want to burst any bubbles or tick anybody off but morality is doing to others as you would have them do to you. You don't have to be religious to do that but it is a concept which is founded in the bible. Too much emphasis is placed on the word "religion". I believe you can have morality without God but only because the laws of the land will punish you if you don't. Not many people look forward to spending their lives behind bars with no freedom.
1 person likes this
@Galena (9110)
•
2 Aug 07
I think to a large extent, what fuels our sense of morality is the part of you that puts yourself in the shoes of others.
religion is far from necessarily for morality.
I beleive in right and wrong, not because my Gods will reward or punish me for certain acts, but because I don't think I could live with myself if I did certain things.
1 person likes this
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
2 Aug 07
yea thats very true, and the way it should be thought.
2 people like this
@santuccie (3384)
• United States
6 Aug 07
This is a really good question. As far as being moral without God existing, I'd call this a trick question. As I've explained in other threads, I don't believe we could ever exist without a creative intelligence. While my belief in Christ is based on the Bible, my belief in God Almighty is not.
As far as being moral without having God in your life, yes, I believe you can be. I know some people who do not believe in God, some of whom remain quite conscientious nonetheless. Do I believe that is enough? No, I don't. But that's only my opinion, and my opinion isn't always right. Whether I'm right this time remains to be seen.
1 person likes this
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
7 Aug 07
jesus was a christ, and so was mythras and so was horus and countless others, which one are you talking about? ..lol.. oh, the one based on the bible..
then,
can you be moral without jesus?
1 person likes this
@santuccie (3384)
• United States
7 Aug 07
Like I said, I know atheists/agnostics who are polite, decent people. Although I hope one day to dwell in the presence of my Creator (whether or not that ever happens), and am of the impression that I must seek Him in this mortal lifetime If I am to do so, I have reason to believe that a relationship with Him is not the determining factor of how a person behaves.
@michaeldadona (5684)
• Malaysia
2 Aug 07
My dear friend....actually you're trapped yourself that so called 'self-engagement' where in this situation you will be very undecisive upon certain issue that makes you have to relate to journals as to for your decision making. In such you will work metroly.
Don't talk about the years before BC, just make it this way, the following, in 1900; in that year nobody knows about having a communications like what we are in now. And definitely for the year 2100 everything will be 100more differents than now.
It happen to morality as what said, morality is very abstract and perspective. Why? The answer is it depend on the community where you in!!!!. The community is actually the judgement for morality...not the religion.
Prove? yes for sure; only one religion as said but having different practices in different places of community. Open you two eyes....it is obvious....
@fightingistheonlyway (2658)
• Canada
2 Aug 07
all im saying is that their can be morality without god.
2 people like this
@GloomCookieLex (6073)
• United States
7 Aug 07
"Morality" is not religious, nor legal. The concept of morality means nothing more than someone's personal set of values and beliefs and how they make decisions and govern their own lives.
There is a huge difference between a legal "right and wrong" and a moral "right and wrong". Democratic laws and government are set in place to protect the people from things and persons that may cause them harm or effect their choices and lifestyles. Morals are purely personal.
