Here's A "What If" Scenario For You...
By anniepa
@anniepa (27955)
United States
November 6, 2007 10:15pm CST
If you've read any of my discussions lately you'll know I've previously posted about the practice of waterboarding and its legality and whether or not it's torture. I've gotten quite a bit of response from these posts and as I expected there were many different opinions on the subject. I'm not "obsessed" with waterboarding by any means, it's just that it HAS been in the news alot so it's been on my mind. Anyway, here's something very interesting for you to all ponder, something that I heard on Countdown last night when Keith Olbermann was giving one of his trademark "Special Comments". Now, I've said repeatedly in my posts that many experts have claimed for years that torture simply does not work. But the Administration has claimed it did work on at least a few of the most wanted members of Alqaeda. The Administration has also claimed to have foiled several - actually MORE than just a few - terror plots in the U.S. What if the "intelligence" that had been received that pointed to these alleged "plots" that were then foiled had actually been obtained through waterboarding on these known terrorists who had done as anyone would and said ANYTHING - even total lies - to stop the torture; what if Bush KNEW these were lies and actually totally PHONEY plots but still used them to instill fear in the people to influence elections and/or gain and/or keep support for the Iraq war, which he loves to refer to as the "War on Terror"? Would that be OK with you? If it wouldn't, what do you think the consequences should be? This should be interesting...
Annie
1 person likes this
7 responses
@foxyfire33 (10005)
• United States
7 Nov 07
I suppose he should submit to some waterboarding in that case.
It wouldn't be ok with me if it was found out that he'd done those things. I really don't like to get too involved with conspiracy theories but this guy has been looking for anything to gain popularity and support for his war. I wouldn't trust him to not try something like this and make false allegations of terror plots...just look at all the WMD's he said existed.
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@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
7 Nov 07
Every major intellengence agency in the world thought Sadam had WMD. His Generals thought he had them. Sadam said he had them and would use them as he had in the past. Maybe if the UN had acted faster like they said they would the WMD would have been found. Sadam had weeks to move the WMD to other countries. He gassed the Kurds and the people in Southern Iraq after the Cease Fire was established in the first Iraq war because they supported the UN troops. He played the world as a fool. If somebody is hitting you how many times do you let them hit you before you do something about it. The UN passed 17 different resolutions and gave him weeks each time to respond. When President Bush called Afganastand the enemy and labled Iraq and North Korea as evil and trhen attacked Afganstand, Sadam knew that Bush was serious and hehad to do something. He had pleanty of time to move the WMD because of the Diplomatic nicities we had to go through.
@worldwise1 (14885)
• United States
7 Nov 07
Torture is an unpleasant thing, anniepa, and should never be practiced by anyone, but I suspect that worse things might be going on and we would be the last to know. This Administration has been cloaked in secrecy from the beginning, and I am sure that our President knows much more than he will ever admit. We can continue to agonize over these issues, but it will not accomplish anything because there are some who are so firmly entrenched in the Bush camp that they would never believe anything negative regarding this Administration.
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@anniepa (27955)
• United States
7 Nov 07
You're so right and I'll never get it, never in a million years! You see right here on myLot the ones who use the "talking points" of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and the like. They talk about the low approval rating of this Administration; I'd like to know where the heck the 33% or whatever it is who do approve of Bush came from! I'm sick of the half-truths, the implications and the full-blown lies we're told to keep us in fear of another attack and therefore have no problem with anything country our country does in the name of the "War on Terror".
Annie
@Latrivia (2878)
• United States
7 Nov 07
If he did that, I would expect him to be impeached, removed from his presidency, and then tried as a war criminal - along with those who demanded such an act. I realize all politicians lie, but to lie for such a stupid reason is inexcusable. A good percentage of the American population already view the Bush administration as a failure, a little more failure isn't going to affect us much. Torturing people to get "answers", only to feed us lies and give us the illusion of "progress", on the other hand, would make matters so much worse.
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@anniepa (27955)
• United States
7 Nov 07
Keith said much the same thing in his comment last night, that he should go to prison if he had indeed done such a thing. I'm going to take a beaten for this and I know it, but I had to put it out there just to see what people would say. Personally, I wouldn't put it past him.
Annie
@xfahctor (14113)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
7 Nov 07
You almost lost me whith the mention of Olbermann, but I did continue.
WHAT IF, if that was the case then there should absolutely be impeachment articals introduced.
While we're at it, WHAT IF, a president knew that testing a certain weapon could trigger a richter 9 earthquake and unleash a tsunami that could wipe out the coasts of 1/4 of the planet but went ahead with the testing anyway? You could go on and on with the what if's from the nearly plausible to the absolutely obsurd. I have seen some astounding charges leveled at this administration, the levis in New Orleans, the tsunami, 9/11, a pre planned invasions of countries, canceling of elections, total constitutional suspension, assasination of dissidents in america, the list goes on and on. And it is one of the things that feeds the hatred of america, both internationaly and from with in our own nation, it's not by any means the only thing, but, the world has a ravenous appetite for stories like this about us and this feeds it. The arab and world press will now be repeating olberman's "what if" as a "he did".
Yes annie, if your what if scenario were true, then it is wrong.
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@bravenewworld (746)
• United States
7 Nov 07
"Fear became the ultimate tool of this government."
Quote from V for Vendetta, an interesting movie reflecting some aspects of how the war on terror might be used by a government.
I do think the fear has been used to manipulate public opinion. I doubt that Bush would have been reelect without it. Fox News continually showing the current terrorism alert level is part of this.
That said, I do hope, and think, that Bush would not use phoney plots to deliberately instill fear. That would be criminal. I think he has more integrity than that.
However, he might be bolstering his record regarding the war on terror by claiming credit for foiling plots for which there is no other evidence than a confession given under torture.
1 person likes this
@worldwise1 (14885)
• United States
7 Nov 07
Torture is an unpleasant thing, anniepa, and should never be practiced by anyone, but I suspect that worse things might be going on and we would be the last to know. This Administration has been cloaked in secrecy from the beginning, and I am sure that our President knows much more than he will ever admit. We can continue to agonize over these issues, but it will not accomplish anything because there are some who are so firmly entrenched in the Bush camp that they would never believe anything negative regarding this Administration.
1 person likes this
