CS 215:BONUS DISCUSSION !!! No. 2

It is indeed yes. Our thinking capabilities is influenced by our language in one way or the other. It is but natural that our language can bring us to continual consciousness about our experiences in life in which ought to express often times. As in PL has limitations or boundary, we humans with different languages also are bounded by what languages we are known of. Language is what we used to communicate and communication can bring up perceptions and knowledge. And thinking is bounded by only what we have learned. Of course, we can think of crazy things of different degree but still, if you just take a close notice, that we are still limited by experiences (gestalt as most psychologist refers to it).

hmmm i must say no to that statement ma'am. we need to consider the fact that the human brain is not even closely limited as compared to that of any software or programming language. yes i absolutely believe that one's thinking may be influenced greatly by the environment that one grows in but the major term here is only INFLUENCE thus it does not limit capabilities of the mind because the human mind is capable of infinitive learning. therefore we can develop and grow our thinking capacities. real life is somehow similar to online gaming or any gaming for that matter in the sense that you can always upgrade your character in-game to become more say, powerful or complex, gaining more skills, adaptability, strength, intelligence, dexterity, credits, items, etc. and how does your character gain these? of course by experience. this reflects very much real life in that we as individuals gain experience from everyday life thus our body, mind, spirit, ego-at least mine does.haha-, and all that can grow, grows.=D so it is quite avoidable to become addle-brained and our way of thinking be limited only by our language. another important point that i must stress for my argument is that if our thinking is so limited by our language, then how come we have the capacity to learn other dialects or languages? because if such an argument holds true, then all the peoples around the world would speak only one language. with the realization that the human civilization might not even reach our point of modernization today thinking on the consequence of how limited our thinking will be. ( whew i think I'm drifting away from the topic here.haha its hard to do this post while at work. my boss keeps asking me to do stuff) anyway, getting back to the point here... NO, our thinking capabilities have no limit if we put ourselves to the task. ;)

i may say that even computers are powerful,they have limited capabilities......even they perform multiple tasks at one time that we human beings cannot, we cannot deny the fact that computers are created by the powerful minds of us human beings..computers are created primarily, to make human lives efficient...with computers, LIFE was never boring..LIFE was never slow, and LIFE was never stagnant.. so therefore i may say, that even human beings cannot compete with the speed of computers, WE can live, learn, and grow, that computers cannot do...

Programming language are limited in the sense that who created that PL has a porposed. they limited it because it is their plan and as day by day they will have another version..am i right? just like java there are many version. if we compare this idea of being limited i believe that human has also limitation in life..some of my classmates says "yes", i think u guys dont accept the fact that we can't do things which it is impossible to do..hehehe peace!its my own opinion! sometimes we think of possible things but if we are already in that situation we cant do that..for instance our existence, we are limited by our roles in life and what we can contribute,we have to think that we are not perfect..just like when i think that if i can make my life immortal..hehehe..even if i want to do this but we are all have endings in life..thats my point of being limitedness in this world..we have to accept that we can't attain what we possibly want.. be happy...

hmmm..okay okay i may have been a little confusing with my explanations the first time around. let me clear things up. :) let us analyze the question here, to quote the question: "Programmers in the process of developing software are limited by the PL's kind of control structures, data structures and abstractions, thus the algorithm they can construct are also limited. Can we say also the same with our thinking capabilities as influenced by our language? Support your opinion." we can see that the dilemma here is defined as programmers being limited by the algorithm they can create. if in the sense of saying LIMITED as programmers not being able to create algorithms for ALL problems, then in the case of human thinking capabilities, definitely the answer is NO because one way or another we can still express what we want to say, even if it means a very long explanation just to describe what you would want to say as stated by ma'am bong on her comment to my 1st post here. ;) but if we define the term LIMITED as having difficulties just making algorithms, then i must STILL SAY NO hahahaha because i choose to take a stand with my opinion and support it by explaining this: the question says that "Can we also say that the thoughts(equal to algorithms in this sense) we can construct are as limited as PL structures that can construct algorithms?" our brain can always still one way or another formulate a way of expressing our thoughts even if we cannot put it into a particular word, we can still find a way around to express what we feel or think. regarding INFINITIVE learning...this is definitely a yes. there is no limit to learning. only excuses. ;) no offense to anyone and everyone out there. :) if there is such as a limit to learning, then there shouldnt be room for changes which contradicts the fact that the only constant thing in this world is change because for every learning there is change. :) wait, i need to repost. office is closing... to be continued.hehe

Yes. I think our thinking capabilities is bounded by the language that we know of. Languages that we use in daily life like English also has some structure and format and this is limited by what we learned from the past. Our vocabulary is limited and it might not have all the words from the dictionary but we can learn new things and thus improve our thinking capabilities in speaking or in writing. In PL, a JAVA programmer's code is limited to the the number of APIs he knows and his ability to write algorithms is determined by his understanding of the Java language.

as for human beings we can have the same capabilities same as the pl languages or the software that programmers develop but our capabilities or abilities to thinking or skills are not limited. unlike pl languages or the software that programmers develop are very limited it depends on how the programmer create their them. human being have brains, that gain knowledge everyday. our thinking capabilities is very wide. we are not only gaining things by studying but also by the influenced of other people or our surroundings.

i think what jannydog is trying to say about infinity here is that we as a human beings learn new things and experience new things day by day. although what we are learning is not everything. is that right? jannyboy?.. coorect me if im wrong. because i do agree with him that learning can be infinity. although there are things that we don't know but there are also different things that we learn everyday. so we learn infinity because in everyday life we don't know when we are not going to learn new things.. hehehe

PL are limited in a sense that its limited because its created by programmers, a human. And in process or after,this progammers will learn new things by their experiences, learnings, lessons. However, there are updates and upgrades for PL while human there are new experiences that they'll learn. In this discussion, I think the 'infinite' thing is about experiences that we will learn however, we cannot learn new things at one time and our brain is limited and our life is very short. I'm saying we cannot learn ALL things but this things our unlimited for us to learn.

I can say that our thinking capabilities is limited to the languages that we know of. and also through the experiences that we also learned everyday. most of the experiences can be meaningful but some are not. we can learn many things, new knowledge, new experience, and etc... but as i also learn in my psychology class that our brain cannot absorb all that we laern. it is "limited". my language that i speak at our home is Tagalog. when i was in grade school, i am fluent in speaking Tagalog. but since, when i was in 3rd year-i think- i somehow became fluent in speaking English. but somehow, as time goes on, i pick up some words in Chavacano, and some "Bisaya language". and sooner, i realize that i am not fluent anymore in speaking Tagalog. The words become mixed-up. when i talk with Tagalog words that should be in a present tense form- it became past or future tense. In PL, i can say that it is limited. There are always an upgrade of PL. as of Java, there are many versions. i found out yesterday in Java, that when i compile a code, it shows an error-or something like that. but when my professor looks for the jdk version of java so that the code can run, i found out that my code cannot run using the jdk version of 1.5 while in jdk version of 1.6 - it runs. so that s all!