A Few Thoughts On "Pro-Life" Versus "Pro-Choice"...
By anniepa
@anniepa (27955)
United States
December 11, 2007 5:07pm CST
I hope this doesn't turn into an ugly post with name-calling and nasty criticism but I just wanted to bring up some thoughts I've had for many years on the whole choice/life issue. It's all about words and phrases; Many who call themselves "pro-life" refer to those who are pro-choice as "pro-abortion". At the same time, many who are "pro-choice" like to refer to the other side as "anti-choice" or sometimes "anti-abortion". Which terms do you use and/or believe to be accurate?
In my opinion, and this is ONLY my OPINION, "pro-life" doesn't really cut it unless you're also concerned for the life after birth, when there can be no question by anyone that it's a living, breathing, FEELING human being you're talking about. So I have a real problem when many of the same people who will go to great lengths to make sure every unborn fetus ever conceived is carried to term and born into this world also feel they have no responsibility whatsoever after birth to see to it this baby, that's now DEFINITELY a baby, is fed, clothed, has a roof over his/her head and given necessary health care. Suddenly it's all the parents' responsibility, not the government's and therefore the taxpayers', and if they aren't able to pay to raise their child they shouldn't have had one. (Many of these same people are also against various services/regulations which would help parents provide more of what their children need, but that's a whole 'nother discussion!)
Also among many who call themselves "pro-life" are those who are very strong advocates for the death penalty, to the point of actually saying that "if 29 murderers are put to death, what's the big deal if there's one who wasn't guilty executed?" I say it's a VERY big deal, especially if you really believe all life is precious and should be protected! Then there's embryonic stem cell research - certainly not ALL but many scientists believe there could be various diseases treated or even cured and eliminated with the use of these cells but some of the pro-life crowd insist this is the destruction of a life and therefore shouldn't be studied. They have no problem with invitro-fertilization where those embryos that are not used are routinely discarded but if they're instead used to possibly save lives of living, breathing, feeling and thinking people, children and people with children who need them, that's murder.
As for the pro-choice/pro-abortion crowd, let me say this; I can't speak for anyone else, so once again this is just my opinion, but in my opinion there aren't that many people who would identify themselves as "pro-abortion". Not many would ever consider this a happy, pleasant choice to make. Not many would use this as their primary means of birth-control and not many would take it lightly. Many of us, including myself, wouldn't likely actually make that choice personally. I say "likely" because we never really know what life may have in store for us, so I say "never say never" for just about everything. (I can safely say "never" about this because I'm not only sterilized for many years but I'm also now safely and completely through menopause.)
The bottom line is, for me there's really not much difference between the truly pro-life and pro-choice advocates. I completely respect that there are those who are opposed to abortion under any but the most extreme circumstances, i.e. rape, incest, or life or health of the mother, etc. But for one to truly be pro-life I believe they must also care about what happens to the baby once it's born. I'm not saying people can't have differing political views but basically if someone is so determined that all conceptions be brought to birth they should also have some concern with the quality of the life of the child that is born one way or another. That "life" some were so determined to have born into this world is going to need more after birth than posters with horrifying pictures of fetuses and threats to clinic employees, they're going to need healthcare, food, clothing, shelter, education and much more for their entire life.
What are your views on this, and what phrase or term to you use to describe yourself, if any? Me, I'm afraid I'm pro-choice AND pro-life!
Annie
8 people like this
13 responses
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
11 Dec 07
Annie,
Finally an intelligent viewpoint on abortion! I was on your side with the post you are referring to! Anyway, everyone is going to have their opinions and that's the beauty of choice but I'm kind of sick of people saying it's murder blah blah blah. I'm pro choice and pro life as well. While it isn't a decision I will ever have to make, I'm officially done, people should have the right to choose without being put in danger. I don't believe that it should be used as a form of birth control at all and personally I was responsible enough and lucky enough that abortion was never an option and personally I don't feel I could do it.
Most anti abortion people are actually pretty funny. These are the ones yelling and complaining about taxes going up- well guess what? Your money is going to those babies born to mothers too poor to take care of them or better yet the mother didn't take care of herself during her unwanted pregnancy that they child is severly handicapped- guess who's paying for that? Frankly, I'm sick of my tax dollars going to stuff like this- we work hard for our money so why shouldn't everyone else?
Unborn fetuses used in stem cell research is far more promising for curing diseases facing our society today. Let's say a cure was found for Cancer through stem cell research using aborted fetuses- would we be allowed to say to anti abortion people who got Cancer- oh I'm sorry you can't have the "cure" because it was found through an aborted fetus.. Heck no we couldn't say it!! On an even bigger note, an anti abortion person who did get Cancer with a "cure" available- do you think they would not take the cure- say it's an injection for purpose of this discussion- and die instead because of the means it was obtained through? I think not, I think many views on this matter would change drastically!
Anti abortion people don't seem to really think about the unwanted child after they are born- just don't kill a fetus. A lot of times in my opinion some kids could have been better off not coming into this world at all since their young lives probably were miserable from the day they were born.
I don't want to generalize not all anti abortion people are this way but you know the type- so blinded by the act of abortion itself and not looking at the big picture.
As far as "terms"- anti-choice, anti-freedom, anti-abortion all fitting!
Thanks for your post you had interesting points and thanks for bringing up science! :)
@artemis432 (7474)
• Abernathy, Texas
12 Dec 07
I love what you pointed out about stem cells - tht is pro-life.
2 people like this
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
5 Mar 08
They won't answer that because they only see one side -the positive side. They fail to see the unused embryos that sit in a cryogenic chamber somewhere waiting to be implanted, then never are so they are just dumped off. There are always 2 sides to every story and people usually fail to research the side they don't believe in...sad really.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
11 Dec 07
Thanks for your explanations on the two terms.
I think both "pro-life" and "pro-choice" are pretty much just meaningless political buzzwords. As you pointed out so well, "pro life" activists don't necessarily choose life in all circumstances anymore than the "pro choice" crowd cares about choice.
When people say they are "pro choice", I ask them if they respect the father's right to choose. Of course, they say the father isn't the one carrying the fetus, so he isn't part of the decision. So I go on to say, ok, but what if the mother chooses to have the baby. Then the man is the father of the baby and becomes part of the decision.
Of course, they say that he should have to accept the responsibilities of raising the baby just like the mother does...
You can see where this is going. The only "choice" they are "pro" is to abort or not to abort. After that he has to take on the responsibilities, but had no choice in the matter.
Since most of us recognize situations where abortion should remain legal, we should just call it what it is. Pro Abortion on Demand or Anti Abortion on Demand.
Let's leave the meaningless political buzzwards to the meaningless politicians.
@GloomCookieLex (6073)
• United States
12 Dec 07
"What if the mother chooses to have the baby. Then the man is the father of the baby and becomes part of the decision. Of course, they say that he should have to accept the responsibilities of raising the baby just like the mother does... "
Wrong. Many, many "pro-choice" activists believe very heavily in the "male abortion". It's a legal documentation that a man can have drawn and sign that revokes any and all of his paternal rights. However, it can usually only be done during the same term as a voluntary physical abortion can be attained. The tilt, though, is that since the pregnancy is, in fact, inside the woman and is not actually attached to the male in any way shape or form, she's is fully capable of not telling the father until it is too late, or even waiting until after it's born. However, an even bigger problem is that I don't think every state has this option to men.
2 people like this
@urbandekay (18278)
•
12 Dec 07
It is, perhaps, worth pointing out that from a biological point of view, the unborn is not, strictly speaking inside the woman. Since the lining of her womb is continuous with her skin. So, just as food is not inside the person whilst in the stomach and doesn't enter the person until it is broken down and passes across a membrane, either by osmosis or active transport, the same is true of the unborn.
all the best urban
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
12 Dec 07
Urban, that isn't right. The epitheleal tissue that lines the uterus is not skin, nor is it part of the same body system. The uterus is part of the reproductive system and the skin is part of the entegumentary system.
In fact, the uvula and skin aren't even the same epitheleal tissue.
The food and the fetus are both inside the mother.
1 person likes this
@imadriscoll (2228)
• United States
12 Dec 07
I have long considered myself pro-life. I believe that life begins at conception. My husband would share my beliefs. We decided when we got married that we would wait until we had been married for four years before starting our family. We then decided that most forms of birth control make the womb a hostile environment where fertilized eggs cannot be implanted. We felt that this (in our opinion) was anti-pro-life. Consequently we conceived our first child after only 3 months of being married. We then had our second child 18 months after the birth of our first ... #3 was born one year after #2 and we are pregnant with #4 who is due shortly after the second birthday of our 3rd child. Perhaps that was a little confusing? Here's a break down:
Child #1 - 4 1/2 years old
Child #2 - 3 years old
Child #3- 2 years old
Child #4 - due early March.
Now keeping in mind that we are pro-life we decided that we must also care about the many children who's mother's choose life but cannot care for their children. We've decided that in order for us to be pro-life that we must "prove it" (for lack of better term) and we are planning on adopting at least two children in the future.
2 people like this
@imadriscoll (2228)
• United States
12 Dec 07
I think we might adopt older children ... we haven't made any decisions like that. We heard on the news the other day a news anchor make an off handed comment about adopting a 17 or 18 year old because even though they may be adults it doesn't mean that they have a place to call home or a family to come home to during the holidays. It broke our hearts.
2 people like this
@artemis432 (7474)
• Abernathy, Texas
12 Dec 07
It always breaks my heart to to hear of children - and 17 and 18 year olds can still be that - have 'aged out' of the system - yet they still wish for homes and parents to call their own.....I hope you guys do adopt and it goes well.
3 people like this
@artemis432 (7474)
• Abernathy, Texas
12 Dec 07
Wow that's truly pro-life - caring for those already here. I love the idea of adopting older children - ones who desperately want forever families but are not babies or even toddlers. Everyone wants the babies/toddlers.
I think your plans are wonderful.
3 people like this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
12 Dec 07
"Then there's embryonic stem cell research - certainly not ALL but many scientists believe there could be various diseases treated or even cured and eliminated with the use of these cells but some of the pro-life crowd insist this is the destruction of a life and therefore shouldn't be studied."
Need I remind you that Embryonic Stem Cell research has yet to produce a single treatment for human disease? On the other hand Adult Stem Cells are already being used in the treatment of over 30 diseases.
Also, a resent breakthrough is now using human skin cells to create embryonic stem cells... which have been used to successfully cure Sickle Cell Anemia in mice.
The fact is Embryonic Stem Cell research is already obsolete.
2 people like this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
13 Dec 07
The recent breakthrough using skin cells is promising if you ignore the fact that they may turn cancerous in the future! That doesn't mean they won't solve that "little" problem but for now it's pretty major. To say embryonic stem cell research is "already obsolete" is not correct at all. Please, tell me again why these cells shouldn't be used because I don't get it! You - maybe not you, personally, but anti-choice people - say nothing against invitro-fertilization but the embryoes that are to be discarded anyway can't be used for research? The unique thing with the embryonic stem cells is that they can be used for any organ or tissue unlike adult stem cells. I might add that in scientific and medical research in general, if one treatment is found to be promising or to show some success in treating a particular disease or condition does that mean we stop looking for something better? If that were the case we'd still have nothing but aspirin for no-narcotic pain relief or no antibiotics but pennicillin. "Embryonic Stem Cell research has yet to produce a single treatment for human disease." The key word here is "YET"; that doesn't mean it won't if given the chance and the funds.
Annie
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
12 Dec 07
I am against the taking of innocent life, and not born yet and babies and children are innocents. There is a crisis pregnancy in our city where one can send goods and cribs, etc. for those unwed mothers who need it. But we cannot go and take all our food and clothes and take the baby in our home along with the mother. I mean there are those of us who wish that we could take in the baby and raise him or her ourselves, but the girl and her parents might decide otherwise and there are the people at Children's Services. There was one woman who took over from our first one who said that when there was another baby available, he would let us know. He got transferred and she decided that two was enough for us. So there are those who wanted to take in more, but were not allowed to.
As for those who do murder, if I believe in capital punishment for those who murder little children and whole families, I believe they should pay for their sins.
Yet if I do not believe in capital punishment, then I believe that the murderers get a free pass and that I cannot do.
I do believe it is up to the State to punish criminals and not for us to take the law into our hands.
2 people like this
@chrislotz (8137)
• Canada
12 Dec 07
This discussion is way too long. It took me forever to read it and by the time I got to the end of it I lost what you wrote in the first part of it. But I will try to post a response to it, because that's what friends are for, to help each other.
I am for prochoice. I think a woman has the right to choose what she wants to do with her body and her life. At the same time I think a woman should be more careful in the fist place if she doesn't want a baby. It's called growing up.
2 people like this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
12 Dec 07
I'm sorry it was too long for you but I had a lot to say beyond the soundbites we hear all the time. I agree totally that a woman should be more careful in the first place. Among the words many pro-choicers use the one that gets lost the most is "rare"; I for one believe it should remain safe, legal and rare. Thanks for being a great friend and responding. You do good!
Annie
1 person likes this
@Ravenladyj (22904)
• United States
12 Dec 07
"there aren't that many people who would identify themselves as "pro-abortion". Not many would ever consider this a happy, pleasant choice to make. Not many would use this as their primary means of birth-control and not many would take it lightly"
Exactly! I am NOT "pro abortion" AT ALL...and having to make the choice to abort AFTER already deciding we WANTED that baby was a hellish and horrible one to make...I did NOT take it lightly and it wasnt a happy pleasant choice..it was awful..BUT it was the BEST FOR ALL INVOLVED and that being said, I am Pro LIFE..in my situation the lives of my loved ones trumped the baby i was carrying at that time...
I can't really say much more at the moment cause I need to kick my kids out or they'll miss the bus and thats just not workin for me LOL but I'll be back because this is a FABULOUS topic!
2 people like this
@headhunter525 (3548)
• India
24 Jan 08
Except for extreme cases I do not support abortion. But as you said it's quite possible to be irresponsible parents. And that would be sad. So I quite appreciate your idea of raising the children by giving them what they deserve in life.
In our country nobody supports abortion. Even if people do it's secretly done. Irrespective of religious adherence all citizens denounce abortion.
1 person likes this
@aries_0325 (3060)
• Philippines
12 Jan 08
I will agree about what is your view, but unfortunately, I am against to abortion. A baby need to see this world. And if the mother doesn't want it, after the baby born, give it to the orphanage. Abortion is an absolutely wrong and it is a crime of murder. And absolutely I am not favor for this. And I think the fetus have life and like us she/he have a right to see this wonderful world.
1 person likes this
@SixPaulEleven (552)
• United States
23 Jan 08
Must you copy and paste the same thing to every single abortion thread?
1 person likes this
@lucky_witch (2707)
• Philippines
12 Dec 07
I myself is a PRO-LIFE. But I am speaking for myself. i know that I would never abort a baby. But those who do, I think I am not in the position to judge them. We are entitle with our own opinion... and if they believe that there is nothing wrong with that... then so be it. Whatever we are... the important thing is we know how to respect other's belief.
@Latrivia (2878)
• United States
12 Dec 07
I'm pro-choice, and will probably always be. I wouldn't know what exact phrase would describe my philosophy on the whole issue. I agree with you that those who are pro-life need to care about life after birth just as much as life after conception.
There are close to a million abortions every year in America alone, if I recall. If all of those terminated pregnancies were forced to be carried to term, that's hundreds and thousands of children that would place additional burden to the already overburdened adoption system, as well as that many more children having to be raised by bad parents.
I also happen to see the world as over-populated by humans, many of which happen to be idiots. In my opinion, a parent shouldn't bother bringing a child into the world unless they're fully prepared to put their all into raising the child properly. All too often I've witnessed men and women who shouldn't be allowed to have reproductive organs much less children. I've seen them dragging their children around carelessly, screaming obscenities at them, letting them get away with murder, etc. They just don't care about their kids enough to be a competent parent (or human being, for that matter). There's just no point in being a parent if you're not even going to bother trying to raise a child to be a functional member of society.
So, in sum - if a person doesn't want to bother being a parent, and doesn't want to adopt their child out, they should be allowed the option to terminate the pregnancy. You're not forcing them into anything - and it might even be beneficial in the long run.
2 people like this
@mcjeannie (703)
• Philippines
12 Dec 07
First my pro-choice experience.I was overseas as a Nurse and was unaware that I am 8 weeks pregnant.But I was bleeding like my normal menstrual period.At work, I started feeling dizzy only to know I am 8 weeks pgnant already.When the doctor examined me and did ultrasound, the fetus viability to life is gone.Thus they have to perform dilatation and curretage in order to protect my health from infection and loss of blood.Got to get rid of it because of the danger.
Another turn about of my life is adoption.I had always a strong belief of an innocent child be given a chance of life and family.You can evev check out some of the discussions I started and answered here.My hubby and i adopted a child from a young girl who doesn't want the child.I took the young girl, had lived with me provided all her needs prenatal, perinatal and postnatal.Today, my hubby and I were so happy we made that choice. Not only was he Angelic but a lovable child who had brought joy and happiness to our home.He is a reminder of Divine Blessing.We made it a point to love, care protect and prepare his future.My real PRO choice true to life experience.
I had experienced it both...Not all could be a living witness to this life scene but God made me.And I am thankful for it.No need for choosing or arguing which to stand, the test of time made me!
2 people like this
@moonchild1au (6240)
• Australia
12 Dec 07
I can see where you are coming from & can agree with some of these things however, I would have to say I am pro life only. No one is asked to be concieved & for those who fall pregnant & are too young to be parents or don't feel they can give the child a good life then they shouldn't have gotten themselves in the preicament in the first place...there are other options like adoption. I can understand those who have been raped wanting to get rid of the baby - I grew up with a girl who was the product of a rape & her mother decided to have her coz she had the same attitude as me that my friend didn't ask to be concieved. I am a mother myself & once you feel the baby move & know it's there, you know it's a human life you are carrying. I'm not trying to argue coz you have valid points for both sides, I just wanted to share my opinion.
@imadriscoll (2228)
• United States
12 Dec 07
I think that you're wrong about the "highly sought after white baby"...
My sister-in-law and brother-in-law recently adopted a very dark beautiful girl from India, she was also "listed" as mildly handicapped.
My other sister-in-law and brother-in-law are in the process of adopting a little girl from Liberia which means that she too, will be very dark.
One of my best friends and her husband are planning on starting the adoption process in the next few months for a child from Ethiopia.
My husband and I will begin the adoption process for two boys from Haiti in about two years (we are pregnant now) ...
All of these children will be dark skinned and their parents will all be white.
1 person likes this
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
12 Dec 07
There is the adoption issue- but quite frankly I don't think there is a big market for adopting couples to adopt handicapped or sick children and most just want the highly sought after healthy white baby as well... that leaves ethnic and handicapped kids in shelters and orphanages- I guess it's sad anyway you look at it!
1 person likes this
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
12 Dec 07
Sorry if it came off as a generalization- but statistically this is not the case. I would love it if it were- my cousins have adopted 2 kids from South Korea and we are a white family! But majority is the oppoosite way- unfortunately. That's really amazing that people in your life are so giving and loving!
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