I need a little input here!! VERY serious matter...

@rosey3223 (1569)
United States
December 14, 2007 2:14am CST
I have a major concern about something that is happening to one of my dear friends that we need a little input from everyone. But before I continue on I will warn you that this is a very sensitive matter that is not to be taken lightly. Judgment in not warranted here, but ideas are needed. Thank you. As I said, I have a dear friend that is having an issue with her oldest child. He is a handful in that he just absolutely refuses to do as he is told, but he does not have ADD or ADHD, he just doesn't do as he is told...I guess you can call it rebellion. The problem is that here recently I got a very tearful call from her about how he went to the school nurse and told her that his parents were abusing him...those were not his words though. What he did was go to the nurse and whatever mark he had on his body he told her that they did it. Some of the things that were said was that my friend smacked him in the face with a belt and that was how he got the little scratch on his nose, which in fact he scratched it himself while picking his nose. Then he said that at a different time she was spanking him and accidentally got him on the neck, which in fact he fell out of a tree and a branch got him on the neck. And what he said about his father was that he, the father, took a lighter and held it under the boy's hand and burned him, which he told his parents that he put his hand over a lit candle and left it there until he got burned. There was more said, but I don't want to get into all of it. Well, now she and her husband are under investigation by CPS and have treated them like truly awful people. They did a walk-through of my friend's house and treated her like a disgusting pig of a bad mother because there were crumbs on the kitchen floor and a few dishes in the sink. And this is not the first time the oldest has done this. He also did this when his youngest brother was born, but made the accusation on the father only, stating that the father picked him up by the throat and threw him across the room then walked over to the boy and proceeded to pick him up by the lips and that was how he got the little mark on his lip...which was in fact a cold sore coming in. When CPS addressed this accusation, they immediately dismissed it because it just "didn't sound right" to the case worker and there were no marks on the boy besides the lip. My friend is someone I have known practically my whole life and she doesn't have the ability to do anything that she is being accused of. I have taken care of that little boy so many times and I never saw any evidence of any abuse. I honestly think that he is doing it because he is no longer the baby and wants attention. I noticed a pattern in how both times that he did it, he went to the school nurse. The sad thing is that because he has lied, my friend now faces losing all of her children. Now, what I need from you is your input. I know that there are so many abused children out there and that it does need to be stopped, but what about those children that know about and understand the system and they abuse it just to "get even" as they say. I was raised in an abusive home and also was in an abusive marriage, this little boy is far from abused, he just absolutely refuses to do as he is told. And now that he has done this to them, he walks around like he is "God" or something. My poor friend feels like she has to walk on eggshells around him for fear that he might say something. Is that really fair? What would you do if you were in her situation?
5 people like this
13 responses
@Ravenladyj (22936)
• United States
14 Dec 07
"...what about those children that know about and understand the system and they abuse it just to "get even" as they say..." - Ah I know a couple of kids like that though none of them took it as far as to actually report but rather would threaten their parents that they would in order to gain and maintain control of the home...Unfortunately the system for whatever reason isnt equipped to deal with that aspect as of yet..at least not to my knowledge..HOWEVER I think a childs track record could be of use.... "I was raised in an abusive home and also was in an abusive marriage, this little boy is far from abused, he just absolutely refuses to do as he is told." - have you ever heard of a disorder called ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) Here are some of the symptoms of it... -frequent temper tantrums -excessive arguing with adults -active defiance and refusal to comply with adult requests and rules -deliberate attempts to annoy or upset people -blaming others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior -often being touchy or easily annoyed by others -frequent anger and resentment -mean and hateful talking when upset -seeking revenge my niece (we think) suffers from this and its hell on all of us...some of the things she does and has done in her life are just brutal... "And now that he has done this to them, he walks around like he is "God" or something. My poor friend feels like she has to walk on eggshells around him for fear that he might say something. Is that really fair? What would you do if you were in her situation?"" - no its not fair at all..what would I do..well first I would look into his behaviour in other places...like when he visits family, whats he like in school etc...I would also get on the phone and get refered to a psychologist and have him evaluated.. Just out of curiousity how old is the child??
3 people like this
@rosey3223 (1569)
• United States
14 Dec 07
Wow, thank you for your comment...very helpful. And actually, yes I have heard of ODD, I just never thought of it for this boy. I had another friend with a teenage son who had it and it was awful most of the time whenever I would visit her. As far as my friend's son's behavior, I know that whenever I am there, he acts like an angel and will with other people that he knows but doesn't spend a lot of time with. She told me of how they went to see family this Thanksgiving and he was actually starting to do things in the house they were staying in that he was not suppose to do in his own...like running and touching what was not his, for example. And then she told me of how when they went shopping at a flea market, there was a sign telling parents to not let their children touch the merchandise and she had to tell him more than 5 times to stop touching that it was the rule and he needed to follow it. So he actually started talking back to her and became very whinny in the store. She said that it was an awful experience for her because he had never done that. As far as school goes, I know that at his first school he was getting bad marks and notes sent home all the time telling my friend to talk to him about his behavior. I don't know fully how he is doing now, but the school does believe in paddling and he has had to have a couple. She got very frustrated when he was in the other school because it was almost an every day thing and didn't know what else to say or do to make him understand. She would keep telling him that the school had rules just like the house had rules and that he needed to follow those rules otherwise he would have to be punished. I'll never forget my friend telling me of an incident where he got bad marks 3 weeks in a row, well she lost it and started to cry. The father had asked him if he cared that she was crying over him getting the bad marks, and the boy said "no". It was very heart-wrenching just to hear about it. Oh, and the boy is only 8.
1 person likes this
@RosieS57 (889)
• United States
15 Dec 07
8 is not too young for ODD, My stepdaughter showed signs of it starting at age 6. By her teen years she was full blown and having meltdowns on a regular basis. The child protective services can have him psychologically tested. The thing about ODD is that if not treated, when they turn 18 the name changes to Anti-Social Personality Disorder. The prisons are full of ASPD people...since they are so defiant for no apparent reason, they won't follow the laws that all of the rest of us abide by. It is NOT your friend's fault but they do need help NOW. The earlier the intervention and treatment, the better the outcomes. It takes intensive counseling and for some, medicines can help somewhat. Best of luck to them -- I sure hope they get the mental health services needed for this child.
1 person likes this
@rosey3223 (1569)
• United States
15 Dec 07
Thank you so much for the information. My friend and I had to have a laugh when she and I spoke because she told me of how when her son was only 3 her mother was harping on her to get him checked out. The mom's explanation was that "your child is not ok!". It isn't funny like Ha Ha, but funny in how ironic her mom's words have now bitten my friend in her butt. But as soon as she is able (when CPS actually offers it to her) my friend is going to get him some help. Thank you again!!
• India
14 Dec 07
He should be sent to a boarding school as soon as possible. I think that as an only child he was pampered silly way too much by the parents and after the second child came, it was pampered silly and in the process the eldest one started harbouring serious grudges against the parents. This is nothing new really. Parents who pamper their children too much, fail to control them anymore after a certain age. For your friend’s son, that certain age has come a bit earlier. And he is intelligent too to have imagined so many situations! He just needs counseling and needs it fast. Also he needs to be kept away from his parents for sometime so that he learns to appreciate their efforts better. The boy just needs a good lecture on behaviour from somebody neutral. And one more thing I must add is that I have seen quite a few similar mails from people of USA and though I am in no position to be judgemental, I do believe that the state has really no business in dictating how people should actually treat their child. Violence is there within the walls of every home, no family is perfect and from when do we call spanking a child by parents as abuse? I find the very concept very ridiculous and very awkward. I mean just imagine having to walk on eggshells while behaving with your own son other wise you are labeled a ‘bad mother’ by the state for everybody to know and react?
2 people like this
• India
17 Dec 07
Yes, I could make out from your post that the child is very very intelligent. Either that or he is watching too much of TV and other rubbish for his own good. You know, master criminals are also geniuses with a twist which was not detected and rectified in childhood. Whatever pampering may mean to us individually, the boy needs serious counseling immediately. Maybe the counselor can convince the authorities somehow about the problem being with the child and not with the parents. My fullest sympathies with your friend and I would definitely like to see the child grow up using this intelligence in a more fruitful way.
@barehugs (8985)
• Canada
14 Dec 07
I'd get a monitor installed in every room. Pictures will prove whether or not he's lying. I would make sure he knew why the camera was installed and also tell him that he had better toe the line or he would end up in Jail. Everything he says or does will be recorded and shown to the Nurse and or Police. There would be no more walking around on eggshells, because everyone will be walking around on Tape!
@rosey3223 (1569)
• United States
14 Dec 07
WOW!!! That is an excellent idea. And when you really think about it, not only would it help prove that he is lying, but it would help my friend see just how she is as a parent. Maybe fix anything that she is doing wrong, there were a couple people that stated that maybe they are showing favoritism or pampering their children, it would show her how she really is, ya know. Sometimes people do need a look in the mirror. Thank you.
@smacksman (6074)
14 Dec 07
Well he's got his parents by the balls now and can control them to his evil wants. Too late now but he could have done with an old fashioned thrashing the first time he tried to see how far beyond the limits of acceptable behaviour he could go. ALL children from about 5 on test the limits and it is the parent's responsibility to the child and to society to firmly define those limits. The road to recovery for this boy will now be long and hard and painful for all concerned. It will be a few years down the line but a few years in the army would sort him out but they may not want him. Not much help from me, I fear. Sorry.
2 people like this
@rosey3223 (1569)
• United States
14 Dec 07
You may not have helped, but you made a lot of sense...thank you. And to be honest, after the first time he did this she looked into military school for him. Actually, she still is from what she told me...only for the fact that he continues to get worse. And they may not have given him a thrashing after the first time, they thought that they scared him bad enough to not do it again. Poor kid was in sobbing tears...but so much for that, huh?
1 person likes this
@thekiwi (588)
• United States
15 Dec 07
I have some experience in this situation...My sister, the youngest of the three of us, has ran a Social worker at school a couple of times. Once stating that my grandmother, who raised us, has beaten her which is how she got bruises on her, where in fact she got them from jumping and falling off the tampoline. She also told them that she was afraid to eat because our grandmother would get mad at us eating to much, which was not true. She told all her friends, that I gave her a black eye and that our mother beat her so bad one summer, she had to stay in the hospital for a week. Of course the Social worker took this matter seriously and had a friend of my sisters take her home and called the police. We had number of Social workers come and investigate the matter. All i can tell you is to tell your friend to keep the house clean, and make sure non of her other children have marks on her, and tell them they will be asked questions and literally battered by questions on how their parents treat them. They will ask questions like how are the living questions, are you treated good, do you have acess to food, how does your room look, how are your parents tempers, do they tend to lash out at you, ect. And then after each question be asked "are you sure?" or "are you positive" Sometimes when the Social worker asked me questions i felt like i was put on a trial case to a murder. It will get ugly, but after a period of time, things will lighten up and it will be marked as "the little boy who cried wolf" Also to warn you, "spanking" is frowned upon on most cases, even if it is on the butt. So watch it...These days its almost illegal to raise your hand to your child. I think thats whats wrong with the world today. If you have anymore questions please message or email me: kiwithinks@gmail.com and let me know how this turns out! I hope ive helped
@thekiwi (588)
• United States
15 Dec 07
I was reading through some of your readers comments and I also want to add that you might really want to check into ODD for your friend, i never knew that existed!! I also like the camera idea, but it would be costly....
1 person likes this
@rosey3223 (1569)
• United States
15 Dec 07
Well, even though it is highly upsetting that your sister had to do that to your family, I am very glad to know that this sort of thing does in fact happen. I've heard of the kids threatening it, but never actually known a kid to go through it...until now. And I'm pretty sure my friend feels like she is the only one going through this right now. My friend did say that they had done a house inspection and talked to a few family members and that now they are ready to open up their services to her, but since they told her that they haven't contacted her since and she is just waiting. She has contacted them, but only gets the machine. But I know that she is on her toes waiting for them to pounce at anything she says or does...either way she is ready for it. As far as the spanking goes I am not so sure about the laws where she lives, but I know that when it is warranted she does it anyway. Thank you so much for your concern, and I will keep you and everyone else posted on how it turns out. As far as the ODD, I did know of a teenager that had it but never thought of it for my friend's son. And the camera is a wonderful idea, but she doesn't have the money for it. Thank you again.
@wisedragon (2330)
• Philippines
14 Dec 07
I would talk to the boy and tell him the consequences of what he is doing, that he and his siblings would be taken away from the home and become orphans. Maybe that will wake him up. If he doesn't stop I would have to get a lawyer because this has gotten very serious. I'm not gonna go to jail for a crime I did not commit. I don't mind losing that rebellious son, but I would definitely fight for my other children.
1 person likes this
@rosey3223 (1569)
• United States
14 Dec 07
And you know what...not only is that exactly how she feels (about losing him and fighting for the other kids), but that is also what they did. The first time it happened they let him know that his dad could go to jail and he (their son) would be taken away. And on this occasion they did explain that ALL children would be taken away. What's worse is what she told her son to really make him think about what he truly has done, and it is so sad that it made me cry. She said; "What about your brother? He doesn't know anything else other than Mommy and Daddy and you, what is going to happen to him? What is going to happen to him when he goes to that other house to people he doesn't know and all he does is cry because he is trying to find mommy or daddy and we are not there? What is going to happen to him? How is he suppose to feel?" She said that her son cried his little heart out, but it really does make you wonder if it really affected him...ya know?
@BlackBay (584)
• Canada
14 Dec 07
Many teens(if he's a teen) go through the (rebel authourity, i have rights)faze, if you want to call it that. First off communication is #1 with this child to find out if something isn't going on with him from outside the house. Kids have a hard time expressing their feelings and problems they are having with someone else outside of the home. If there is no problem then maybe this child has an issue at home. Unfortunately CPS don't look beyond what kids says( that the kid could be lying)they just hear abuse and then reak havoc on a good family. Your friend should stand firm, agree to any councelling CPS might suggest. If this child is just lying because he wants to get his way then maybe the mother should tell CPS to remove him from the home because of the Stress,disruption he is causeing the family,Sometimes when a kid sees this and lives somewhere else they are quiet grateful to come home and straight-up because they find out the grass isn't greener on the other side. I wish your friend Good Luck and things will work out!
1 person likes this
@rosey3223 (1569)
• United States
14 Dec 07
Thank you, I wish her the same. And thank you for your comment. No, the boy is not a teen, he is only 8 and from what I have seen and know from what she has said, my friend tries to talk to him all the time but all he seems to want to talk about is what is going on in the house at that moment. But what I find interesting is that she just recently found out that the other kids in his class don't want him there...they say that he is too mean and that he needs to go to a different classroom. Even I had to talk to him about that and tried to make him realize that maybe it is him, the one being mean, and not his mom and dad. All I can say is that I got nothing out of him...no emotion, no words, nothing. Very upsetting!! And I do believe that she has talked to CPS about getting him counseling, they are just waiting for CPS to get off their butts and do it...they said that they would help in that department.
@suehan1 (4355)
• Australia
14 Dec 07
i think your friend needs some help.the child needs some counsiling for sure,to see what the problems are,that he needs to do this to his parents.if i were them i would ask this cps group to organise a psycology assessment on the child,and the school he goes to should be aware of the child tendancy to lie.it is a shame that there other children involved,because if there was only him,i would let the authorities take him away,and he would soon realise how good it had it at home and would think twice before he started making these claims against his parents again.see if there are any organisations like life line,who have free services,like counsilling and legal issues,they maybe able to help
1 person likes this
@rosey3223 (1569)
• United States
14 Dec 07
Thank you for that very helpful information!! My friend and I never thought about calling any other organizations for help, but I do know that she did ask for help from CPS, they just need to get off their butts and get to it. As far as taking him away, honestly, she has thought about that...even having the youngest around...for the same reason that you said, to make him realize that it really was pretty good at home. Again, thank you for the tips.
@Omabunga (92)
• Philippines
14 Dec 07
This is very difficult situation. I believe the child is lacking the attention that he is longing for from his parents. What I can suggest is for the parents to be sensitive on what their child is requesting or saying. He must also be praised on everything that he does. The parents must reach out and do everything to gain their child's trust. The parents must also treat their children similarly and not pick on favoritism. A child needs and always long for attention. If that is not given to them or a treatment is different from one child to another, the child becomes rebellious and thinks of ways to attract his/her parent's attention.
1 person likes this
@rosey3223 (1569)
• United States
14 Dec 07
See, that is something else that my friend and I don't understand...he never really WANTED her attention (as far as hugs and love and "nurturing" attention goes until the youngest was born. See the oldest was "mommy's baby" for I think 6 years and then POOF there is another baby around and all of a sudden he wanted MORE attention then before. And before that he just wanted to be left alone. As far as I know she treats them pretty fair as far attention goes (even though there is a huge age difference), but because he does more wrong than right he is continuously getting the negative attention...and he was like that even before the youngest came about. As far as praise goes, they have always tried to reward and praise him on everything that he did good in...especially school, but AGAIN because his was continuously getting bad marks at school, he hardly ever got any praise. Thank you for your input.
1 person likes this
• United States
15 Dec 07
Im very sorry to hear that your friend has such problems with her child. Its not fair at all that she feels like she has to walk on egg shells. Maybe she could see about taking him some place...kinda like those boot camps you see on tv for troubled teens. Something has to be done and quickly before she ends up getting in trouble for something she didnt even do. Its really a shame that her son would want to do something like this just to get even.
1 person likes this
• India
15 Dec 07
The kid seems to be a bit smart for his own good. I think he should be sent away to some caretakers who are not really related to him, and then his behaviour should be carefully observed. I am sure he will repeat the same story again in a different way. I feel he needs counselling and help; anything that will help him realize that such 'smartness' won't work all through life. In my country, we just smack such kids. Maybe it is another extreme; but it is a better extreme. Treating kids as if they are a crate of eggs will make them grown into weak individuals who can't handle any stress in later life.
@Debs_place (10524)
• United States
15 Dec 07
Well, we don't know how old he is but I would say the child needs to see a psychologist. He seems to have some problems, he feels ignored for one and maybe a compulsive liar. Have you seen the situation, is the child being neglected? Did the problems occur before the 2nd child was born? Maybe they need to find an activity that the child likes and is good at...soccer or something, so he can feel good about himself and his parents have an opportunity to praise him.
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@subha12 (18452)
• India
15 Dec 07
i think in this case the parents must be very careful.May be the way the boy grew up, he is asking for more attention.the oarents should try and understand well whether it is the boy's words or is he influenced by anyone.So just he needs some attention.
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