Angry and Shaken!

@worldwise1 (14887)
United States
January 4, 2008 3:06pm CST
Yes, I am angry and shaken because I just left a discussion that really got my blood boiling. I am well aware that the world is filled with people of the bigot variety, but, I was shocked to find that so many myLotters actually AGREED with this bigot. To say that people are stupid if they don't happen to meet your requirements is just wrong. To suggest pre-testing before people are deemed satisfactory to bear children is wrong. Much of parenting skills come directly through trial and error. It is a work-in-progress as your children develop and grow. None of us was born to be a perfect parent. To say that people are too "poor" to have children is unrealistic. Poor people have always had children. Some are admittedly better able to provide for them than others, but there should be no law to prevent them having children. And, finally, to suggest that poor people are incapable of loving their children is outrageous and ludicrous. I've seen some of the poorest families in homes that might not have much materially-but they are filled with love. How do you feel about this? Sorry, but this has me very upset and I just had to rant.
19 people like this
32 responses
@Calais (10898)
• Australia
4 Jan 08
Not one person has the right over the other to say if they should have children or not...How dare they.... What about the poorer countries (ethiopia etc...)where a child barely lives past toddler stage , is that fair ? No , but who is anyone to say they shouldnt have children...People can be nasty and pig headed with their noses stuck up their a$$es sometimes...Dont get too wild up about it though, they are narrow minded, and money dosnt buy love...
3 people like this
@worldwise1 (14887)
• United States
4 Jan 08
It was just so hurtful, Calais, the snobbish attitude of the person who posted the discussion. I'll never understand people who can't live and let live.
1 person likes this
@Calais (10898)
• Australia
4 Jan 08
Like I said, and I have seen it myself on here...People just cant see past their own hazy little sad lives...
2 people like this
• United States
5 Jan 08
I am so sorry you were hurt.. some people just have no conscience today and this is why I stay away from some discussions, because it just makes me mad to see the stupidity of people..
@barehugs (8984)
• Canada
5 Jan 08
This was a disturbing Post.I read and appreciated your response, Worldwise1! At first glance I was reminded of Adolf Hitler's propaganda. His idea was to populate Germany with His chosen People, and he killed millions to prove it. I can imagine Hitler saying much the same as this Poster. But what to do? How can you tell these types anything, and whats the point in argueing? WW2 proved the point to Hitler. He finally realised his own Stupidity, and shot himself to prove it.
• United States
5 Jan 08
Oh barehugs, you said this so well and your right, exactly what Hitler would do.. Sooner or later, that person will realize the mistake they made..:)
@worldwise1 (14887)
• United States
5 Jan 08
We can only hope, barehugs! I might have overreacted somewhat, but I don't like it when people appoint themselves judge and jury in a given situation.
@carmelanirel (20976)
• United States
4 Jan 08
I agree with you and it may have been fortunate I didn't run into this conversation. (of course you didn't mention whether or not you set them straight) Did they even say if they had children? Because this typically comes from people who are clueless about raising children and if they do, I actually feel sorry for them. I have seen where someone would think or say things they shouldn't about how others are raising children and it came back on them...The same thing they complained about, happened to them. You know, you reap what you sow...
@Ravenladyj (22920)
• United States
4 Jan 08
Apparently she does have kids...I was just in there and I'm discussed myself to be perfectly honest with you...I was being openminded at first then I read a reply by her to a responder and she decided to get racial (then justified it due to where she lives) and THAT was it for me..I'm a black woman and a damn proud one and I HAVE been on assistance..It really is a revolting thread as far as I'm concerned...Its one thing to be cynical and outspoken but having A LITTLE class, compassion and understanding doesnt hurt ;-)
2 people like this
@Ravenladyj (22920)
• United States
4 Jan 08
"I'm discussed myself " LOL that should say "I'm DISGUSTED myself"....
1 person likes this
• United States
4 Jan 08
I pity her then to say something like that is wrong. I would go check it out myself, but having computer problems right now, it took me forever to get back into this discussion....
1 person likes this
@Wario_1 (965)
• Sweden
4 Jan 08
Its ok, to treat people as idiots just because they don't meet certain standards is a real sh*tsucker. Of course there exists people that are not good parents, but that can't be used as an argument to have some stupid test to determine if a person is a liable parent or not. I agree that much of parenting is trial and error, but it doesn't have to be everything. Much about parenting can be learnt from your own parents, somethings i still think you need to learn yourself. It can be tought for poor people to have kids, if they are forced to buy all the unnecessary crap that the industry whants to throw in the parents face. I think most parents can afford the basic stuff for their kids. To say that those parents can't properly love their children brings my piss to a boil. I also get damn upset, its sad that many MyLots embrace or accepts some or all of this. Can't really say anything about them, only take responsability for myself, my own beliefs avd experiences.
2 people like this
@worldwise1 (14887)
• United States
5 Jan 08
That was well said, Wario! I guess according to the standards of such bigots as I saw today, I would have been judged an unfit parent. We didn't have a lot of luxuries when I was raising my kids, but we had love, food to eat, and a roof over our heads. I went without new clothing so that my kids could go to school dressed nicely. That is a lot of what parenting is all about-sacrifice. The amount of material things you can give a child doesn't amount to a hill of beans.
• United States
5 Jan 08
that is 100% correct BUT if a person is not capable of loving anyone but them selves they shoulnt have kids thats how the whole neglect and abuse gets brough into it it has nothing to do with money but selfworth
• United States
4 Jan 08
Personally, I feel some people should not be allowed to have children, and the only way to stop children from being trapped in terrible households is to find out some things about the parents. Personally, mental testing should be required. I mean, how else are we going to prevent children from dying terrible deaths due to unfit mother's and abusive fathers? And, I am aware that parenting skills come through trial and error. That's not what kind of testing I advocate.
2 people like this
@worldwise1 (14887)
• United States
5 Jan 08
Well, I don't happen to agree with you, high. I will say to you the same thing I said to the other person: Who are you to judge who is fit to have children. Money doesn't even enter into it. Look at Brittney Spears.
1 person likes this
@Ravenladyj (22920)
• United States
5 Jan 08
"Personally, mental testing should be required. I mean, how else are we going to prevent children from dying terrible deaths due to unfit mother's and abusive fathers?" As much as I DO agree that SOME ppl really shouldnt be parents...the problem with your thinking is what about the ppl who BECOME bad parents LONG AFTER actually having children..I know that my mental issues didnt become a serious problem in my life until my kids were tots and then a bit older....
@Shaun72 (15965)
• Palatka, Florida
4 Jan 08
That upsets me. I mean my parents never had a lot of money but they raised me and my little sister very well. I am glad i haven't seen this disscussion yet because I would do like you did. My best friend and her husband don't have a lot but they have 2 boys and they are both good parents to them.
2 people like this
@worldwise1 (14887)
• United States
5 Jan 08
I think about the pioneering spirit upon which this country was built, Shaun, and most of those people were dirt poor. That never stopped them from having babies, nor from wanting a better life for their children.
@Shaun72 (15965)
• Palatka, Florida
5 Jan 08
You are right. I can't stand people who try to act like they are better then others because they have money or because they came with a family with money. That seems to fake to me.
@sigma77 (5385)
• United States
4 Jan 08
Don't blame you. If anyone reads the book "Freakonomics", you will get some great insight into this. The so-called parenting skills have gone through a roller coaster of changes. That is becasue the experts are always changing their minds or new experts say exactly the opposite of what the old experts said. It is extremely difficult to measure how much parenting skills actually help or hinder a child. Much of what a child becomes has to do with heridity and who their parents are. By that I mean how their parents grew up has a lot to do with how kids grow up. The idea of testing parents ahead of time is total nonsense. That is because there is no one person or agency qualifed to make that decision...that of who should or should not have or raise children. It has to be an individual's choice or the parents choice. Not society's or the governments. What is this Communism?
2 people like this
@worldwise1 (14887)
• United States
5 Jan 08
Sounds like Communism to me, sigma, or, perhaps Eugenics. I think it is the worst thing people can do to put others down because they are not as well-off as they are. That is a major irritation to me.
1 person likes this
@sigma77 (5385)
• United States
5 Jan 08
As well off financially? Some of the richest people have the lousiest relationships. But I know what you mean.
@beeeckie (803)
• United States
4 Jan 08
I find it astounding how many people on here are closed-minded, too. I try to stay out of even talking on those threads cause I know it'll become a flame-war and if people are determined to be racist jerks, they're not going to see past anything.
2 people like this
@worldwise1 (14887)
• United States
4 Jan 08
I think I have learned my lesson, beeeckie. I will no longer stray from my friends discussions because it can be hazardous.
1 person likes this
@Wario_1 (965)
• Sweden
4 Jan 08
yea thats true, majbe its trendy being narrow minded racist jerks. But i think often people are like that because it requires some energy and willingness to understand others, if your lazy or convenient it may be to tought.
2 people like this
@Zelmarq (12567)
• Cebu City, Philippines
5 Jan 08
Well, i agree with you. Maybe these people are the prefectionists and they feel so superior and think they are correct with their way of thinking.
@worldwise1 (14887)
• United States
5 Jan 08
Oh, I don't doubt that they think they are correct, Zelmarq, but they will be in for a rude awakening one day.
@anniepa (27521)
• United States
5 Jan 08
I didn't see the discussion you're referring to but just from reading your comments here I'm sure I'd have come away feeling just as angry and shaken are you are! Some of the happiest and loving families I've ever known haven't had much in the form of money or material things but they more than made up for it with love and kindness. In many cases the kids turned out to be quite successful but never forgot where they came from and spent their lives helping others who were less fortunate. Of course, we could only allow the rich and greedy to procreate so we'd soon have a human race full of rich, greedy and selfish brats! Annie
2 people like this
@worldwise1 (14887)
• United States
5 Jan 08
Those are good points, anniepa. If America is truly the Land of Opportunity, then the opportunities should exist for one and all. No, everyone is not good parental material, but nothing is perfect.
• Australia
5 Jan 08
Money is a completely material thing, and is not a good gauge of how great a parent is. There are plenty of parents with money who have neglected, unloved children. There are pleny of 'poor' families who may not have much, but the house is filled with love and laughter. Money means nothing when it comes to how well a family will function. It is the character and attitude of the parents, and not what they have, which is important. And what is the point of pre-testing? Nothing can compare you for parenthood, other than actually being a parent. There are no tests available which can tell you exactly how you will react in a real situation. There are people who always wanted kids, but find when they have them, they have little patience for them. There are others who are indifferent, or didn't really plan children, and they can turn out to be wonderful parents. Nothing - tests, money, current attitude, can predetermine what sort of parent you will be. Only having children can answer the question.
2 people like this
@worldwise1 (14887)
• United States
5 Jan 08
Once again, kriszelunka, you have responded with insight and wisdom. It is very rewarding to know that many of you fellow myLotters are not close-minded and bigoted.
@foxyfire33 (10007)
• United States
4 Jan 08
Worldwise- I know exactly what discussion you're referring too and I was also shocked at what little I read there. I only read the post itself and a response or two because I knew if I read anymore I would have the same reaction as you had. I don't even want to comment much now because I could easily start ranting about it and it's not worth my time to bring more attention to people like that. I will say that the things said there disgusted me and THOSE are the kind of people who should think twice about bearing and raising our next generation.
2 people like this
@worldwise1 (14887)
• United States
5 Jan 08
We are definitely on the same page on that, foxyfire, and I must have been deluding myself to think that all of the bigots were gone from myLot. I was only trying to respond to some discussions outside of my normal friends, but I made a huge mistake.
@asgtswife04 (2480)
• United States
5 Jan 08
Okay, I have to respond to this discussion. I responded to the same discussion that you are talking about and while, yes, some of the responses were very harsh and unrealistic, some of them were put correctly. I don't believe a woman with 10 children and one on the way making no effort to help support her family and just living on welfare should have anymore. That is my belief. I do believe, however, that you shouldn't be limited to how many kids you can have if you are doing everything you can to support yourselves. There is a big difference there. I was a single mother of two, working full time, yet still needed help myself. That's just the way it is in society these days. The reality is that no one single person can raise a family on their own. In saying this, I do agree that some of the responses were very harsh towards society in general. As I stated in the post you are talking about...seeing a person living off the government with diamond rings on every finger, a brand new car, 200 dollar pair of shoes on, and 12 kids....yes, that does make me angry that they are taking away from us to feed their families, but that is because that is exactly what they are doing. They aren't working, they aren't trying to support their families...they are having more babies saying give me more money from the government. That is wrong and that shouldn't be allowed, but for the ones that do need the help and who are really trying then no, i don't see a problem with it at all. The truth is, though, that if you have 2 kids already and you can't hardly even feed them...why would you want to have another baby? Is there any common sense in that? There isn't because to me that is just the parents being selfish and not thinking about the child or children. if you can't even feed the two you have the right way, then bringing another child into the world would just make that one more mouth to feed, thus leaving the other two a little hungrier. You have to look at the full picture here. Yes, all people, no matter how poor, should be able to have children...but to a certain extent. The truth is, unless you are just insanely rich, you will never be able to afford children..but of course some people are all felt lead and want to be mothers. I am one of those people. I have three children and although times have been difficult for us at times, we all love each other very much and I would never take back having the children I have now...but my husband and I also knew when it was time to stop having children, not only for the children we have now...but for us as well. It can be very stressful trying to raise children while holding down two jobs at a time to be able to feed them. hope this helped a little. it might start a war, but hopefully not. I wish the best to everyone and i'm not here to argue with anyone at all. Mylot is a wonderful place with many wonderful people on it. Don't let certain discussion's upset you so much. There will be many on here i'm sure you won't agree with. Good luck to you and God bless
1 person likes this
@theprogamer (10539)
• United States
5 Jan 08
Sgtswife that is very well said and at least a few people in said discussion looked at it from multiple perspectives. Not only that, the ending part about mylot conduct is very truthful. We are all individuals and we're going to disagree. (This is at large) How about instead of creating a sub discussion ranting, CONFRONT the person and discussion instead. I see this a bit often on lot, people making sub discussions, behind-your-back discussions, but never found at the discussion in question nor confronting who's "wrong"... I think that's rather childish. If you've got a problem with the person and discussion, I say go to them and confront them. And I too wish the best for everyone here.
• United States
6 Jan 08
I agree with you 100%. I definitely think if you have a problem with someone's discussion you should respond to them and confront them instead of doing it behind their back. That is why I responded to this discussion. i responded to the other discussion that this person was talking about and i'm definitely not ashamed or regret one thing I said on there. But, yes, if this person has a problem then they should post on that discussion for sure. Better to face it head on than to create an enemy because your talking about them behind their backs. Not a good idea in my opinion. Good talking with you again. Haven't chatted with you in a while. God bless
@RosieS57 (889)
• United States
5 Jan 08
Try not to let it get to you. There will always be the ignorant and bigoted. And those of low breeding and no account that run off at the mmouth before engaging the brain. They are much more to be pitied than censured and provide a model of how not to rear the kids you have, you know.
1 person likes this
@worldwise1 (14887)
• United States
5 Jan 08
I must say that you are right, Rosie, but it is very hard for me to be still when I am confronted with injustice-in any form.
@pyewacket (44032)
• United States
5 Jan 08
I saw that discussion myself and declined to comment in it, I mean what would the point be? The person has made up her mind that certain people should not be allowed to breed and nothing will change her mind about it....There is however, one case where maybe, just maybe an idea like this, to test people or deny them their right to breed and that would be child molesters or child abusers cause then it's a case of the safety of children. But to deny people the right to "breed" just because they're stupid isn't right? What if their children turn out to be geniuses?
1 person likes this
@worldwise1 (14887)
• United States
5 Jan 08
To quote Forrest Gump, "Stupid is as stupid does," pyewacket. There are people, like the poster, who think they are really smart, but it is only in their own little minds.
@maddysmommy (16232)
• United States
4 Jan 08
I just went through and read some of the replies on that discussion and I couldn't believe what people were saying either. It's very sad that people feel that way but some do and that's why I stay away from discussions like that. They are just unreal!
1 person likes this
@worldwise1 (14887)
• United States
5 Jan 08
I'm really beginning to think once again that my days here on myLot are numbered, maddysmommy. I thought I had developed a pretty thick skin, but after reading that garbage, I don't know.
@roberten (3131)
• United States
5 Jan 08
Sounds like a discussion gone sour; you are very correct in what you have said. Sorry you got responses that were not what you expected.
1 person likes this
@lucas528 (323)
• Northern Mariana Islands
5 Jan 08
I totally agree with you. In fact, I had a post in my website about this. It's about what I feel about rich and poor people. I hate to say this, but I hate to see poor people who got nothing to eat or wear. But what I hate more is to see rich people enjoying and spending lots of money with those luxurious things. My website is a multi-blogs website which is welcome to everybody, but I preferred to have one blog with my own posts and with my own thoughts and feelings.
1 person likes this
• China
5 Jan 08
I can't understand those kind of persons who think that people are too "poor" to have children. In many countries, especially those developings, the government haven't enough economic capacity to offer comprehensive walfare to whole country's people. The poor usually pays more time to love their children, and keep good relations between them. And in return, most of children will afford their parents old age's lifes since the walfare is little from government...
1 person likes this
@SViswan (12065)
• India
5 Jan 08
I'm somewhere in between on this one (maybe because I'm from India). I see that the poor people here have 5-6 kids and we struggle with 2 (money wise). I'm not sure if these people get benefits from the government. BUt when they work for us, they need more money than the usual amount because they have 4 mouths to feed! Now I find that crazy! Why should I pay them more just because they have 4 kids? That's not my problem! Who asked them to have 4 (or 5 or more) kids? I think ti's being unrealistic. I understand and appreciate what you are saying about poor people being capable of loving their kids as much as we love our kids or being better parents. That's all fine as long as they know what they are doing and not begging for charity or using other people's hard earned money doing it. I am not against people (falling in any class) having as many kids as they want...but please don't bring a child into this world when you have to live off someone else. I'd love to have 6 kids but I can't afford to..so I won't! That's the choice I made. I will not even ask my dad for monetary help (even though he can afford it)because this is a choice that my husband and I made. We do the best we can. I'm not sure about making a law and if it will work...but just as this has got you upset, I get upset too when people have more kids than they can handle and then come to me for help. Some just think of it as the easy way out!
1 person likes this