Isn't keeping people ignorant/ illiterate the best way to control them???

@ladyluna (7004)
United States
January 8, 2008 2:18pm CST
"Nearly one in three people in the Arab world is illiterate, including nearly half of all women ..." Sorry folks, but this really burns my buttocks! Here is the link to the article: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080107195154.zz47kw4z&show_article=1 Gee, do ya' think this might have something to do with Arab recruits to sinister organizations like al queda? And, might it have something to do with the relative ease with which these people are willing to blindly follow complete whacko, nutjobs? I usually have great respect for diplomacy, and will try to always place fairness as a priority. However, if these statistics are accurate, then I will never again be hesitant about referring to the Arab World as ignorant! This preposterous level of illiteracy ought to be a great source of outrage for all Arabic people! Whew, thanks for letting me get that off of my chest. Now, what do you think? How much of the global problem of Islamic extremism is related to these shameful illiteracy rates? Thanks, I look forward to your replies.
7 people like this
10 responses
• United States
8 Jan 08
Yes, keepin'm ignorant is a strategy for keeping people down. This is why once upon a time it was against the law to teach a slave to read here in the USA! I'm sure not being educated has a lot to do with why radical Muslims don't understand better how Islam exploits them , makes their lot in life worse, and incites them to violence not in their own best interest.
5 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
9 Jan 08
Hello Red, Ah yes, you're absolutely correct. This same tactic was employed here in the USA in the past. Perhaps this Arab illiteracy so infuriates me because we, in the Western world, are very aware of how effective a control or repressive measure illiteracy really is. Most of the world, has at one point or another, been guilty of the same repressive tactic. Yet, most of the rest of the world recognized its folly long ago. Below is a list of the Arab League nations, followed by their 2005 Gross Domestic Product (GDP). This list is compiled in comparative US Dollars, and is at least two years old. There is simply no excuse for these high rates of illiteracy! Rank Country GDP (millions of USD) Arab League 1,297,910 1 Saudi Arabia 397,770 2 United Arab Emirates 192,768 3 Algeria 102,026 4 Egypt 93,045 5 Sudan 86,212 6 Kuwait 74,598 7 Morocco 58,986 8 Iraq 45,239 9 Libya 38,738 10 Qatar 37,852 11 Oman 36,326 12 Tunisia 35,185 13 Syria 26,442 14 Lebanon 22,052 15 Yemen 18,193 16 Bahrain 12,921 17 Jordan 12,861 18 Somalia 4,388 19 Mauritania 1,938 20 Comoros 370 And, here is a U.N. link that lists the 1997 estimated Arab (& Mediterranean) populations, and percentage of estimated annual rates of change in population. http://web.macam.ac.il/~arnon/Int-ME/ME_data/POPULATION%20of%20Arab%20and%20Mediterranean%20countries.htm
1 person likes this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
9 Jan 08
Hello ladyluna, This is undoubtedly one of the most intelligent reasoning as to why Muslim world, in general, and Arab world, in Particular, is in what it is and clearly explains the partial responsibility of Muslims, themselves, for the atrocities brought upon them. It is also beyond doubt that this rate of illiteracy has its fair share in Muslims getting fooled by opportunists, ignorant religious leaders and political jugglers as well as the world powers. They have done disservice to themselves, not only materially, politically and economically but also religiously and spiritually because it’s obligatory duty, of a Muslim to get him/herself educated, and a Muslim leader to arrange for public education for all. Prophet Muhammad had put great emphasis on education and it was in all dimensions (not just religious) as the wordings of one of his hadiths are, “To seek knowledge is mandatory upon Muslim men and women, even if he/she has to go to Chine”. He mentioned China because it was considered a far off land and a very difficult land to reach, requiring great hardship. So He asked Muslims to get themselves educated even if it meant great hardship. Of course China wasn’t offering courses in Islamic theology, nor were those educated (non-Muslim) prisoners of war who were promised freedom if they taught Muslim children. For centuries, Muslims excelled in fields of knowledge. They translated works from Greek and expanded on them and thus became pioneers of not only many of the sciences but also of instruments which are still being used and called with those same names. Thus you will find many of Muslim scientists names as fathers of many scientific fields, not to mention the modern scientific method itself (introduced by ibn e Haitham (I don’t know how one writes his name in English, this is most close pronunciation that I could make). This was the time when Europeans used to come to Muslim Universities of Cordova, Granada, Constantinople (istanbol), Balkh, Bukhara, Baghdad, central Asia. Arabic works were translated into latin and then English. But then, the meaning of Caliphate totally changed from one of service to a position of power, Scholars were humiliated and books were discouraged. When a nation humiliates its scholars, it deserves downfall and so it happened. The Dark age of Europe came to Muslim world and Muslim world’s progressiveness went to Europe. Islamic extremism is related to many things, some of what I have already written on in some of your discussions. And, indisputably, low literacy rate is one of the considerable causes. Some of the leaders are thriving just because of it and they would certainly like to maintain the status quo because educating the common folks will be an explicit threat to their thrones. But, I doubt that illiteracy is the main or or most significant reason because many of alleged Al-Qaida recruits come from more educated Muslim countries than from less educated. However, I know that my doubt is not a direct logical conclusion of the statistics because it’s possible that illiterate part of more educated Muslim countries contribute more towards Al-Qaida than illiterate part of lesser educated Muslim countries! “… I will never again be hesitant about referring to the Arab World as ignorant!... thanks for letting me get that off of my chest.” Truth is relieving, isn’t it? There shouldn’t be any hesitation in calling something as is. And, you are right in your claim here without any argument, even though mainstream Arab countries have much more literacy rate than, say, India. Yet, they still deserve this title. Not only Arab but there are also non-Arab Muslim nations who deserve this same title as well as the fate, until they turn the tables through education, intellect, Science and Technology.
2 people like this
• India
9 Jan 08
Hi Kamran, I was just scrolling thru the responses expecting the usual defense of Muslims and Arabs against western onslaught. Your response was a very refreshing one and as I read, I felt like saying ‘exactly exactly’. History proves that Islamic civilization was much ahead of its time in everything ranging from education, mathematics, science, astronomy, architecture, music, arts, food, music…what not. Muslims were definitely true followers of their faith but never bigots and closeted as they have become now. And they are becoming so insular. Just the other day, an article came up regarding education of Muslims in India. It said that middle-class Muslims want to send their children to proper schools teaching English (for job prospects) yet, they don’t want their children to attend general schools for fear of corruption from other religious communities. So somebody hatched a brilliant plan of opening a school where the English alphabet is taught like A for Allah, M for Mecca, H for Hadith, Q for Quran and so on. But why, what’s wrong in telling a child A for Apple, B for Boy? and why not let your children mix with other communities, why this fear of losing your identity? I am so glad that there are people like you who know where the faults of the Muslim communities lie and how they are to be rectified. All religion had its bad days…Christianity, Hinduism but there was social upheaval form within for reforms. I wish that reform would come to the Islamic world soon and we all will be benefited. PS: Only thing is why do you bring my poor country into this discussion? The literacy rate may not be any indicator considering the vastness and population of India when compared to most other nations.
4 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
9 Jan 08
Thanks Kamran. I'm very much on board with your having pointed out that many remarkable advancements originated in the Arab world throughout history. As I imagine you've already suspected, I'm a huge history buff, particularly of Ancient Civilizations. So much of mankind's development is directly attributable to ancient Arab, Persian, Hindu, Greek, Roman, and Chinese scholars. For their ancestors part, this is all the more reason why I think that all Arabs should be outraged to recognize an overall Arab illiteracy rate of nearly 1/3. In as much as it is simply inexcusable for Arabs, the same is true for the rest of the globe. When we all make broad academic education a top priority, then perhaps we can achieve that positive paradigm shift that I so long for for mankind. I know that you have made references to Muslim education before, but I was not familiar with the specific Quranic passage requiring Muslims to educate themselves. Today's reality seems to indicate a huge disconnect in this area. Perhaps this will be a wake-up call, eh?
3 people like this
@kamran12 (5526)
• Pakistan
12 Jan 08
Hello sudiptacallingu, Thanks for chiming in, I appreciate!:-) “I wish that reform would come to the Islamic world soon and we all will be benefited.” I would like to join you in wishing that. Muslim nations have much to reform, to get rid of stagnation, to move forward and to reclaim their lost status. And, unless they have this resolve, they will continue to suffer. “PS: Only thing is why do you bring my poor country into this discussion?” I am sorry if it came across as offensive but that was not my intention, indeed. My comment about contrasting Arab world (in general) and India was for two purposes. First, I do not hold that illiteracy is fundamental cause of ignorance; there can be correlation but not necessarily causation. Secondly, I hold Arabs (in general) more ignorant than Indians. So, I tried to convey both of these points in one sentence i.e. I was disagreeing with ladyluna about illiteracy being essential cause of ignorance but agreeing with her conclusions that Arabs are ignorant (in general), but it seems that I failed. It was precisely to say that though India has much lower literacy rate than, say, Saudi Arabia but still Indians are more knowledgeable (in general) than general Arabs. If it is still not clear then, let me say it straight, I consider Indians and Iranians lesser ignorant than Pakistanis and Americans who are, in my opinion, more knowledgeable than Arabs and Africans (in general) and some others. And, to be clearer, in my view, all of us are ignorant in one way or the other and on different levels. Ignorance means lack of knowledge (not lack of information). Considering that every individual among us has almost no knowledge compared to what there is, it is hard to call anybody knowledgeable on absolute basis. So, when compared to absolute knowledge, we are all ignorant. Then, there are different types of ignorance. In literate societies, media is the main tool to keep people ignorant, as I see widespread ignorance on this and similar other forums as well as on media outlets. In illiterate societies, it is still done by media, though with a slight difference. The main reasons of ignorance, in my view, are lack of thinking and reasoning abilities, laziness, dependence on others (individuals and media), preconceptions and prejudices, lack of determination, accepting news/views/opinions without proof and evidence, lack of observation (not seeing), lack of listening (not hearing), etc. Most of these problems, nay, all are chosen ones unless if someone is naturally impaired. Information can lead to knowledge as well as ignorance but knowledge surely leads to wisdom.
1 person likes this
@Netsbridge (3253)
• United States
9 Jan 08
True, keeping people ignorant is the best way to control or manipulate them. However, what I believe most people forget or misunderstand is that, education need not be formal. As a matter of fact, some of our revered world inventors and educators were self-taught. Literacy simply refers to one's ability to be able to read and write. While most of the women or people in Asia or Africa may not be able to read and write in the official languages or native languages of their various nations, it does not necessarily mean that these people are ignorant. In fact, while they may be behind in modern technology, the people of Asia and Africa are the true sustainers of world economy. Without these people, a good number of the foods and resources you and I enjoy and crave on a daily basis in our "developed nations" will be not. I consider illiteracy to be the process of misinforming people about life and world events. Did you know that Thomas Jefferson once said, "The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspaper. (For) it is always better to have no ideas than false ones; to believe nothing, than to believe what is wrong"?
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
9 Jan 08
Hello Netsbridge, Thank you for sharing your insights. I doubt that anyone would disagree with your supposition: illiteracy does not always equal ignorance. Conversely, it would be impossible to make the case that developing the written language isn't/hasn't been the the greatest boon to civilization. Of the many excellent examples of self-learned people throughout history, a great many of them became so respected because their self-education heavily involved ecclectic reading. Granted, honed, inherent critical thinking skills can, and often do exist quite separate of literacy, yet the latter can be an helpful substitute when the former is inherently missing. Thanks for throwing in a snippet from Thomas Jefferson. Far be it from me to challenge such a fine mind. There is no question that a blank slate is easier to develop than a convoluted one.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
11 Jan 08
Hello Netsbridge, As I said in my first reply to you: "I doubt that anyone would disagree with your supposition: illiteracy does not always equal ignorance."
1 person likes this
• United States
10 Jan 08
Ladyluna, I am simply setting the record straight that, not being able to read or write does not necessarily mean being ignorant. While the ability to read and write is a boost to civilization, the failure thereof is not ignorance - the lack of knowledge. And do not forget the fact that these "illiterate" people of Asia and Africa survived for thousands of years before the creation of the United States of America. As a matter of fact, one of my early childhood memories, in one of the countries I also grew up in, is of elderly church members who could not read or write correctly quoting Biblical passages in either English or French (an ability that left most of us dumbfounded) - There are several people who can understand and speak languages that they cannot read or write. Indeed, I do understand and/or speak several other languages that I cannot read or write. Would that then make me an illiterate in the eyes of the natives of those languages? I believe that limiting the definition of literacy to just the ability to read and/or write, as often done, is not only inappropriate, but a disservice to humankind.
1 person likes this
@sigma77 (5383)
• United States
8 Jan 08
Heavens Luna, we can't be having burned buttocks. I can see your point and can't argue against it. But keeping people in the dark happens in all kinds of situations. That is we so can be taken advantage of. It happens in the medical, insurance, investing, retailing and many other industries. I have to wonder about the Arab world and why there is not more revolt against their leaders? As in the case of extremism, be it Islamic or liberal based, the only way they can keep control of the people is to keep them in the dark. If the Arab world were to become literate, I am sure things would be quite different. The way they treat their women is appalling. You can go back to the days of Hitler for comparison. Keeping people from the truth is their specialty. And it is hard to discover the truth if you can't read it. I say there is a definite connection with any kind of extremism and illiteracy rates.
2 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
8 Jan 08
Hello Sigma, Yeah, you're right, burned buttocks is a grossly unpleasant visual. I definitely shoulda' gone down a different descriptive path! Too late now, eh? Thanks for helping me to lighten the air of the subject, though it does not make the illiteracy reality any less preposterous. There is simply no excuse for this kind of targeted oppression. You're spot on, friend. People cannot see truth, and enlightenment if they cannot read it! It's simply unfathomable!
1 person likes this
@Destiny007 (5805)
• United States
9 Jan 08
In a word... yes. The best way to control anyone is to keep them illiterate, for when people learn to read then a whole world of possibilities and information is revealed. The concept of freedom and slavery is revealed when the knowledge is freely available... when someone knows no other life then what they have, and when they do not know of any other possibilities, then they are easily controlled and manipulated. This is true even if people can read, but the information and news that they receive is sanitized to the point where the whole truth is concealed. To control the media is to control the people, and the way that they think and believe. This is true even in free societies such as our own. As far as they rest of your post, I do believe that the problem of Islamic extremism has everything to do with illiteracy, because if the people were more knowledgeable then they would be less apt to join these groups and would recognize them and the lies they told for what they really are. These groups depend on the ignorant and the disenfranchised to fill their ranks. That is why you see so much recruiting going on in our prison system under the guise of religion.... they are targeting those individuals that have no place in our society.
2 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
10 Jan 08
Hello Destiny, Wow, have you presented a bullseye, or what? "These groups depend on the ignorant and the disenfranchised to fill their ranks." Your words ring so true! If the illiterate were all exposed to a committed, broad educational curriculum, they would soon learn that nearly every major empire on the planet has, at one time or another, used this same tactic to keep their worker bees down. As for disenfranchisement: is there any better way to keep the poor disenfranchised than to insure their continued poverty through discouraged intellectual self improvement? Nope, there sure isn't! Oh, and great point about prison recruitment! The easiest people to manipulate are the one's who themselves believe that the future is hopeless!
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
15 Jan 08
Great points Sndcain!
@Guardian208 (1095)
• United States
19 Apr 08
Hi ladyluna, I know this is an old discussion but it popped up at the bottom of my discussion list so I thought I would pipe in and get your thoughts on something. At the risk of sounding like a complete conspiracy theorist and 'wack-job' after giving you that link to the lizard people, I am going to throw another wild thought at you. I had heard a few years ago, that Osama bin Laden's real motivation was world domination. If he could mobilize the middle east again the US and/or Israel, he could theoretically create a unified Arab state and control most of the world's oil. Once he accomplished that, he could pretty much dictate terms to the rest of the world. Having said that, what better way to stoke the fires of hatred than to keep people illiterate and ignorant. I would disagree with a previous poster that said that illiteracy did not cause ignorance. It may not create it but it does perpetuate it. And once the illiterate have children, they are creating more illiterate people. Illiterate people can not find answers for themselves. They have to accept what they are told. they may not necessarily believe it but they can not disprove it. So with no way to disprove the rhetoric of hate, it is fairly easy to accomplish the goals I mentioned. What do you think about this theory?
1 person likes this
• United States
21 Apr 08
Thanks for the history lesson. I have always felt that the post WWI division of land, which I believe was designed to undermine their ability to unite and become strong, created more underlying hatred than was anticipated. Having said what you said, do you believe that the Soros connection was in place BEFORE 911? Do you think that Soros and his kind would benefit from an event like 911? I never believed that 911 was simply an event to undermine capitalism. Or a lashing out at our 'decadent' lifestyle. I have always believed that there was something else at work. While some of my more recent posts may argue against this next statement, I am not a conspiracy theorist. But I do believe that there must be strong motivations behind such bold and violent actions. I think it incumbent upon us, as citizens of this country, to uncover those motivations and stop these types of attacks. But we must not be afraid to think the unthinkable, or to turn away when what we discover is unpleasant or terrifying.
• United States
12 Jan 08
reading is empowering. we learn, we grow in so many ways. we become aware of our oppressors through reading. we are enlightened. that is why in 19th century and previously during the slave era, the slaves were forced to remain illiterate, just so they wouldn't rebel. this is sad, but true.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
15 Jan 08
Good point, Crazyqbanita!
@Jemina (5770)
18 Apr 08
When I read the title of your post my first reaction was "That's outrageous!" My heart really goes with those women in that country. I quite disagree with the way they are treated. I guess it's just that we belong to a free society where men and women have equal rights. That's why we can't seem to imagine how those women feel.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
19 Apr 08
Hello Jemina, Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this. I'm glad that empathy is your strongest reaction. Though to be sure, it isn't just women who are illiterate. When we recognize the effect that isolationism has had on the region, then we can get a pretty powerful glimpse of the best course of remedy. It is only by getting to know our neighbors, and allowing them to know us, that we can move beyond our differences to see our similarities. Empathy is a powerful remedy, my friend!
1 person likes this
@Jemina (5770)
21 Apr 08
Isolation is another issue and my empathy is acting up again. I believe it is by becoming aware of our surroundings that make us appreciate more what we already have. Freedom is such a big, big privilege. But then anyone can have his/her own definition of freedom. Well, as long as their is life, there is hope.
• Australia
4 Apr 08
Look i cant argue with you either, i think what you are saying has alot of depth to it and is justified for discussion. I do think how you are approaching this topic is destined for controversy. I think that it is true, it is very easy to control someone who will believe everything you say rather than question it. I wonder, because of the way westerners see this war, And most people feelings towards it, how these lesser educated people would feel towards the situationn if they had more insight. I still think regardless of this article, Americans do not rule the world and should learn to step back into their own borders, and consider their own problems and situations rather than worry about the rest of the world as their own.
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
5 Apr 08
Hello dont_pick_your_nose, Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. I would caution you to recognize that the Western views of the War on Terror, and the Iraqi situation are widely varied. To presume that all Westerners view it in a unified fashion is terribly short-sighted. For example: many Americans believe as you do, that America should embrace an isolationist stance on global affairs. However, I am not one of them, as I recognize that our global economy is prohibitive of such isolationism. Though, we're all entitled to our own opinion, eh?
@esecaira (27)
• United States
1 May 08
No. Illiteracy and ignorance are two very different conceptions and neither apply to a culture in general. Political and anykind of fanatism are somehow natural to human society. Take Germany and the Nazis, or Serbia and their brutalism. Arabs are mostly literate...that"s how the read the coran...it is just a distorted form of fanatism. If you study carefully the worst kind of religious faatism is rooted in their affluent societys like Saudi Arabia where not sunnies or Chiites..but Wahabits are runing the terror show and it"s financing