There is "research" and then there's Research.
By ParaTed2k
@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
January 14, 2008 5:50pm CST
Let's talk about Research.
Research is done by highly educated people, but then again, so is "research"? What's the difference?
Research leads to great advances in technology, technique or even changes a paradigm we've clung to our whole lives. "Research" makes a great splash for a few years, but then kind of fades into history. Then there is the "research" that was worthless from the beginning and end up costing more than it could have ever been worth. Of course, when the researcher began, there may not of been any way of knowing that. The sad fact is, there is "research" that not only doesn't move us forward as a society, but ends up killing people instead.
For an example (and these are only an example, please, let's not mistake it as the point); Stem cell research. There is Adult Stem Cell Research that has already paid off. Whatever it cost to move this research along was money and resources well spent.
Then there is Embryonic Stem Cell Research. So far it has accomplished little more than cause political arguments. It has yet to yield a single treatment, and seems to me to be pretty much pointless.
Why pointless? Because Adult Stem Cells can already be used to do everything Embryonic Stem Cell researchers hope they'll be able to do "someday".
Another example is nutrition. Every few years "they" come up with the latest thing that's going to kill you. A few years later, poof, it may not be the best thing for you, but it's also not as bad as they said it was. Remember the killer egg? Remember the lifesaving oatmeal? Remeber how margarine was so much better for us than butter? Hmmmmm...
Lately the axe has fallen on pharmaceuticals. With all the crap the FDA puts a pharmaceutical company though before a new pill can be put on the market, it seems it's either not enough, or just needs to be done by competent people.
I wonder how many people have been killed by medical researchers compared to how many have been saved. I wonder why medical researchers are never listed on the lawsuit when someone gets killed by their "breakthrough". Doctors, Paramedics, and other medical professionals have to carry millions in "malpractice" insurance. Was it really "malpractice" when we only followed the researchers' directions? I wonder how much insurance the average drug lab worker has to carry?
I guess I'll have to research that and find out... or will it just be "research"?
3 responses
@Debs_place (10520)
• United States
15 Jan 08
Well, I am not going to argue any of your technical points, but I hear oatmeal is even better then they first realized.
But the difference between little r and big r is often the methodology - who they picked as participants, the number of participants, how long the study lasted, what they did for controls, who sponsored it.
I could conduct a study using myself and what I did may work for me, I guess if I had the right connections someone could say a study was done and...... This may not work for anyone else.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
15 Jan 08
Yes, personal research is fine for learning what is best for one's self. The problem comes when people insist that what they learned is best for everyone. A test group of 1 doesn't do much for finding what's good for "everyone". However it's great for finding what works best for the 1.
@ClarusVisum (2163)
• United States
15 Jan 08
"For an example (and these are only an example, please, let's not mistake it as the point)"
Well, if you're going to make false statements, then I will correct you, whether this was a central point or not:
Uh, embryonic stem cell research hasn't produced any results because no one is FUNDING it. Those 'political arguments' are killing the ability for us to do any actual work with embryonic stem cells, so don't turn around, blame embryonic stem cell researchers for the controversy, and then make it their fault that nothing's been done with it! Just about all scientists working with stem cells agree that there is greater potential in embryonic than adult stem cells, because for the latter, you have to basically use a retrovirus on the cells, and that makes it nearly impossible for those stem cells ever to be able to be directly transferred to a patient safely (so there goes being able to directly replace damaged tissue right out the window...). Also, adult stem cells are a lot rarer, and for a lot of the applications we hope to one day use stem cells for, you need a LOT of them.
"Adult Stem Cells can already be used to do everything Embryonic Stem Cell researchers hope they'll be able to do "someday"."
That's simply not true. This was a bad example for you from the beginning:
"Human embryonic and adult stem cells each have advantages and disadvantages regarding potential use for cell-based regenerative therapies. Of course, adult and embryonic stem cells differ in the number and type of differentiated cells types they can become. Embryonic stem cells can become all cell types of the body because they are pluripotent. Adult stem cells are generally limited to differentiating into different cell types of their tissue of origin. However, some evidence suggests that adult stem cell plasticity may exist, increasing the number of cell types a given adult stem cell can become.
Large numbers of embryonic stem cells can be relatively easily grown in culture, while adult stem cells are rare in mature tissues and methods for expanding their numbers in cell culture have not yet been worked out. This is an important distinction, as large numbers of cells are needed for stem cell replacement therapies." --http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/basics/basics5.asp
The two are simply not the same. We need to fund BOTH because one technology can help more than two. It shows ignorance of the science to claim that adult stem cells are 'just as good' or even better. It's also absurd that scientists, just for wanting to do research on embryos THAT WERE GOING TO BE THROWN AWAY ANYWAY (the extras from in-vitro fertilization efforts), are getting so much flak. Is a wastebasket really a better fate for those embryos? Anyway, please seek to inform yourself better before you make false statements like these again.
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Now then, most of the other stuff you talk about, is actually the fault of exaggeration on the media's part. Even though they're always careful to cover their tracks by (truthfully) saying "may" instead of "will", the media has no problem overstating and exaggerating the results of a study to make it sound more interesting. If there was a study that showed a POSSIBLE (none of the credible research makes an absolute statement--good scientists don't jump to conclusions) link between, let's say, tap water and prostate cancer, you can bet your wife and kids it will make tons of headlines. But weeks or months later, when further study refutes it, the media won't say a word about it. You always hear the gloom and doom stuff from the media, but never the "actually, it's no big deal" findings. That is not the researchers' fault. There is no such thing as a science "headline". That isn't how science is done. Too many people take what the local news says and follow it like gospel. But if you were to look at the actual research (warning: actual science education required), the claims are NEVER as sensational or drastic as the media portrays them to be.
If you want to talk about "research" as in not real research, what WOULD be good examples are stuff like chiropractic, acupuncture, homeopathy, all kinds of 'herbal remedies', etc. HERE is where the BS is coming DIRECTLY from the "researchers", as opposed to merely sensationalized in 'translation'.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
15 Jan 08
I'll agree that media hype is partially to blame, but researchers never take responsibility for the problems they cause when they were wrong.
Isn't it ironic though, you only consider it "real" research when it's something you support. You seem to be a pawn of the pharmaceutical companies.
I wonder, how many people have been killed by Chiropractic or herbal remedies compared to how many people have been killed by medicine?
One of the first things that made me question medicine were Human Anatomy & Physiology and pharmacology classes. Notice, I said "question", not throw it out completely.

@newfette (338)
• Canada
15 Jan 08
I don't understand what your question is, and therefore what response you are looking for.
First you say there is research and then there is "research". What exactly are you saying? That you've seen "research" written like that in quotations marks? Or are you mocking some types of research?
ah yes research differs completely. If I read something that just says, "research shows"...I pay it no mind. If I read something published by say, HArvard University, saying "research shows"...then I believe it more.
Were you jsut trying to start a discussion about Adult Stem Cell Research versus Embryonic Stem Cell Research, FDA research? Or just research on anything in general?
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
15 Jan 08
real research that produces useable results, and "research" that at best just wastes money and at worst kills people.



