A question about illegal immigration...

@miamilady (4924)
United States
January 20, 2008 6:50am CST
For those of you who are anti-illegal immigration... How do you feel about making it easier to come to the United States legally? Ease up on immigration laws? How do you feel about a guest worker program? Many of the arguments I've seen against illegal immigrants include the statement that they don't pay taxes, they take advantage of services that they don't pay for. So, what if we fix that? What if we make it easier to get in, and we do collect taxes from the larger quantity of "legal" immigrants. Would you feel better then? Also, if we were to simply cut down on illegal immigrants without making it easier to come in legally, are you preparted to pay more for your fruits and vegetables? You know the prices of that stuff will go up. What are your thoughts on that? Personally, I think that, yes there should be some compromise. I think it wouldnt kill the farm owners (depending on the circumstances) to pay their workers a little more and they big guys make a little less. But the reality is, in most businesses, if the cost of making or distributing the product goes up, they don't take the loss, they pass it on to the consumer...
6 people like this
14 responses
• United States
20 Jan 08
oh man, its so unfair. I can from Ukraine about 7 years ago and I can tell you that it was sooo much paperwork!!! It took us about 2 years to get everything done and get green light to go here in US. When I look at all these illigal immigrants that jumped the fence and want the same rights as I have it makes me sick. Why? Tell me why we should make it easier for them to come over here and make it easier for them to stay here? I don't its fair to anybody who lives here that we have to pay for service being provided to them. Remember, its al coming out of our checks and they just sit back and relax
2 people like this
@miamilady (4924)
• United States
20 Jan 08
I'm not proposing that we make things easier so that they don't have to pay for services. I'm proposing that we make things easier, but also track them so that they DO pay taxes and contribute to the system that pays for their services. As far as the difficulty of the process of immigration...Just because a person doesn't have the financial or educational means to go through two years of paperwork, doesn't mean they should't be given the opportunity to improve their lives (only my opinion of course). I want thank you and everyone who replies to this discussion. Yes my point of view will become apparent, but that doesn't mean I don't respect (and want to learn from or discuss with) others with different points of view.
1 person likes this
• United States
20 Jan 08
if person is commiting a crime by moving here illigally, they will do something else like that. Why should they have a chance to improve their lives? Thye commit a crime every time they try to move in illigaly. If we will give them a "chance" and let them stay here un-punished, they will do something else that is illigal, like not paying taxes.
1 person likes this
@miamilady (4924)
• United States
21 Jan 08
I'm not usually this abrupt, but, that is SUCH cr@p! What's the quote? He who has not sinned should cast the first stone? Sorry, lots of anti immigrant folks fall back on that one. I'm just not buying it. Unless you've never gone one mile over the speed limit or never broken ANY rule EVER. Please don't get on a soap box about braking laws. Sorry. Of course your entitled to your opinion here. That's just what pops into my head when I hear people say that about illegal immigrants. Also, I just want to point out that my question was about making it easier to do things the legal way. Most importantly, I guess my hypothetical question was...I'll word it differently...What if we made it easier to be legal? What if they DID pay taxes? I just get the feeling that for a lot of people (not necessarily you) those complaints are breaking laws and not paying taxes are just convenient excuses to keep people out of the U.S.
1 person likes this
@palonghorn (5483)
• United States
20 Jan 08
Ease up ?! They aren't strict enough as it is. There are illegal immigrant's babies that the American tax payer is paying for! They come across to have their baby in America so that it is an American citizen, and then we pay for it. Pay more for products, you bet I would, at least I would know that the one's picking it are paying taxes too! And maybe, just maybe, if the illegals were dealt with then some of the people on welfare that are Americans could get at least a mininum (or slightly below) paying job, and take less goverment assistance. We have enough people here already taking advantage of that system, but that's another discussion.
2 people like this
@miamilady (4924)
• United States
20 Jan 08
Well, maybe I wasn't specific enough. When I said ease up on laws so they could come here legally, I was thinking if they came here legally they WOULD BE PAYING THOSE TAXES and paying for those services that so many people complain about them not paying for. Sorry if I wasn't specific about that. That was part of my questions. WHAT IF THEY WERE PAYING TAXES? Would you THEN not have a problem with immigrants? Is it the "illegal" part of it that bothers you or is it just the fact that they are from somewhere other than here (which of course, we all come from ancestors who come from somewhere else). I guess that's the main focus of my questions. If we could make them pay taxes and contribute to our country in that way. Would it then be okay for them to come here?
1 person likes this
• United States
21 Jan 08
I don't have problems with immigrants, with the exception of one thing, if they want to come here, and become a citizen, then they can learn to speak English! I shouldn't have to learn their language. For the most part it is the ILLEGAL part I have a problem with.
2 people like this
@anniepa (27280)
• United States
21 Jan 08
You say, "some of the people on welfare that are Americans could get at least a minimum (or slightly below) paying job." Nobody, not immigrants or Americans should work for less than minimum wage and that's one reason there will never be anything really done about the illegal immigration problem - there are employers that enjoy the cheap labor too much and the illegals certainly can't complain they're being underpaid, now can they? Annie
• Philippines
21 Jan 08
Who wouldn't like to enter the US legally. It's just that it is so hard to get in legally.Especially if you don't have the funds for it.Even though you're outsourcing jobs, discrimination is still present. You may not know it but there are illegal aliens who pay their taxes. I think there should be effort on both ends to make things work right.
@miamilady (4924)
• United States
21 Jan 08
Thanks for your repsonse. I agree.
@Debs_place (10524)
• United States
21 Jan 08
Well that would be fine with me providing that certain criteria were met 1) they provided a marketable skill that was needed in the US...for example RNs 2) they were not criminals, no criminal background 3) they were healthy, no communicable or other diseases that would end up being a burden on the system 4) the families would learn English and assimilate as families have in the past, we would not be hiring people to act as interpreters etc. 5) they come here with the intention of becoming citizens 6) if they do get in trouble with the law in their first 5 years here...they go back. As for higher prices - do you think maybe we pay more taxes because that is how the illegal aliens are living and getting medical care. My guess is that if we did the math, it would balance out in the end. Okay, now what do we do with all of the illegal aliens that are here?
1 person likes this
@miamilady (4924)
• United States
21 Jan 08
Great response! I agree with much of what you said. RN's would be great but, I'm happy with farworkers and roofers too. On the language thing, I agree that immigrants should make it a priority to learn the language, but I also think we need to take in to consideration that learning new things is harder for some that others. As long as they truly are trying and not expecting American's to learn spanish, I can appreciate their efforts. Living in Miami and being half Cuban, I have a lot of insight in to the language issue. I have been asked, more times than I can count "Why don't you speak spanish better?" You have no idea how irritating that can be sometimes. You also make a valid point about the taxes and the higher prices of produce possibly balancing out. I won't take the time to do the math (lol) but I will say it is a good point. To answer your final sentence and question. Of course I don't know the absolute answer, but I'd be okay with processing them on an individual basis. The ones that have been caught breaking laws (other than laws related to being here illegaly) should be deported. The ones that are making a contribution, such as being a hard honest (with the exception of being here illegally) worker, should be given the opportunity to make the transition to legal citizenship or at least a legal guest worker program. I'm sure there will be many who don't agree with this idea, but I will always be sympathetic to people who are working their behinds off trying to make a better life for their families. Those of us who were fortunate enough to be born here are VERY lucky and we can't imagine what it's like to be born anywhere else. Thanks for your repsonse.
@musicman6 (2391)
• United States
21 Jan 08
I think that's one of the answers there, tax them on all the work they do, just like they tax us, and that would bring in more money for the government! I can't understand why the government takes so long for them to get their papers straight! I don't see anything wrong with a guest worker program, let them come in and work, pay the taxes, then they go back! That would even create more jobs for us, keeping track and registering them! Part of the problem here is also, the employers want them here because they work for lower wages, and it's causing an imbalance in the system! But you are right, if the employer had to pay more wages, then the cost of products would rise, and that would be passed on to us as the consumers! So basically, we would be stabbing ourselves in the back! I don't know, it's too complicated for me!!!
1 person likes this
@miamilady (4924)
• United States
21 Jan 08
Yep, it is complicated. I think that's the case with most "issues". And, it's something most people don't want to acknowledge. It's easy to complain about a situation. It's much more difficult to find a solution and it's IMPOSSIBLE to find a solution that will please everyone. Thanks for your response.
@Lakota12 (42681)
• United States
20 Jan 08
Illegal people would cut down if we up held the law as already written and I tell ya MExico has stiffer laws than our and wont put up with illeagal so why should we and veggies and stuff are already goin gup and its not from the workers its from gas prices now there is something else to fix use our own oil supply again!
1 person likes this
@lightningd (1041)
• United States
20 Jan 08
Honnestly I feel that there should be some type of arangement with Mexico and Canada. Mexico could become part of the United States and that would be perfectly fine with me. While I think if they are working here, they should be paying taxes, but I think there should be some way to let them work here, pay the same percentage of taxes as citizens, but I think that money could be put directly into Social Security. Since they are not not likely to collect it here, because they are not citizens, I think that could help to keep social security solvent. I cannot find fault in the Mexican people I have been around that I see working in my area. There is one who lives near my mom, who comes over and clears the snow in her driveway and expects nothing. He agreed to help my mom remove some carpet from one of her rental homes for 10$ an hour, and worked so fast he had it all out in less than 2 hours. This was carpet that was glued down, it was no easy task, but he worked quickly and efficiently. My mom ended up giving him 50$ because she couldn't believe he got it all out of the house. He not only got it pulled up, but he stacked the bad carpet out with the trash. I have found that some, not all, are like that. I have to agree that without them, the prices for vegetables and other farm items are going to go up, and I believe they will go up exponentially. It seems there's just some jobs that we, as US citizens seem to think are below us. That is why it is so easy for mexicans to get jobs. Rather than take a job making 7$ an hour where we have to actually break a sweat, far too many would rather sit home and draw unemployment.
1 person likes this
• United States
8 Apr 08
If you want to come to America you should do it legally. You pay taxes, be able to support yourself, you learn the language (it is a safety issue believe it or not), no welfare or food stamps, no free ride when the citizens can't even get help. The companies that hire you (when you are legal) pay you the same as the citizens. This is my home and I don't mind sharing it but you must respect it, or you don't need to be here. It shouldn't offend you if I am proud of my country. I won't be offended if you are proud of yours. I would be more likely to understand that. Take a look around at other countries, they don't give alot of free help to immigrants legal or illegal. There must be a decent back ground check for coming into USA and be able to pass it. This might sound harsh but I am tired of people thinking it is okay to come here and get free help and the citizens don't. I am tired of people showing no respect for my country. I would expect to show respect for the place I visited and their home. I want the same.
@sizzle3000 (3038)
• United States
23 Jan 08
I am sorry but I think the laws are the way they are for a reason. Why make it easier for these people to come into our country when all they have to do is sneak in. It doesn't matter how easy we make legal immigration there are always going to be people who think they are above the law. These illegals do not deserve to be here they came here by breaking our laws. They do not want to be a part of the American way the want to steal from us and do what they want. My grandfather came here from Germany and because a citizen. To me all those peopel who came here illegally spit in his face. While he was breaking his back and bending over backward to be a part of the American way others were saying who cares I am here live with it. These illegals do not just steal our jobs but our very existance. They take our identities, they get free health, they get free schooling and they get to drive. These people even get to collect social security when they get old. These people are criminals plain and simple. They need to be punished not rewarded. So my answer to your question is no change in policy and no breaks. I can't afford to send my daughter to college but I read a story about an boy from another country graduating college with all kinds of honors. He was there on scholorships. Which means he paid nothing. This boy was being offered another four year scholorship at another university. However, someone found out this boy was not here legally. Isn't that great this boy got a four year college education plus and he broke our laws to get here. That is a joke.
@Ravenladyj (22936)
• United States
23 Jan 08
"Also, if we were to simply cut down on illegal immigrants without making it easier to come in legally, are you preparted to pay more for your fruits and vegetables? You know the prices of that stuff will go up." The reality is though that the price of stuff IS going up...one way or another they find a way to shaft you...NY is HORRID for that...BUT what ppl tend to not acknowledge is when the gov does it for some b.s reason the ppl dont pay attention..the cost of gas and dairy products etc is a perfect example...Not to mention the simple fact that ALOT of the jobs that the illegals do, the U.S citizen doesnt want (its the same in Canada)..ppl dont like to face that fact but its true...sure there could be plenty of jobs for lets say welfare recipients BUT cold hard fact, a HUGE chuck of them DON'T WANT TO WORK..its just easier to collect that check....Better idea IMO would be to change the system (welfare) to similar as what Ontario has done and MAKE them take whatever job is there and whatever is left over you can make certain changes to the immigration for work purpose process and give the aliens the left overs.... As for making it tougher or easier etc etc to immigrate to this county....well it isnt easy to begin with...my kids and I are going through the process ourselves..and though its quicker than it is for some ppl (I figure it depends on where you're from originally and which method you need to get in) it DEFINATELY NOT cheap or even remotely close to being so...and again for some its not cheap AND its a hellish process..I have a friend who's husband is I believe from Mexico and the crap they have gone through over the past few yrs has been brutal on them.. I'd love to see it be EASIER BUT at the same time you are asking for potential trouble that way too....Its a rock and a hard place really..
@suspenseful (40314)
• Canada
21 Jan 08
You do have a guest worker immigration . I am a Canadian and I can come to the States and work a certain number of months as a guest worker, but I have to return to Canada after the period is over and I can not apply for American citizenship unless my husband kicks the bucket, and I meet a nice American widower or bachelor who is looking for a wife but there is another problem, I am in my sixties, no chance of me getting pregnant -not that there was - unless God creates a miracle like he did with Sarah and Elizabeth, and none of my ancestors were Israelites, so no chance of that happening. I could also be a religious worker, or if I have relatives in the States and so far I have no heard of any. I suppose there are many Canadians like me who cannot take the cold climates and would move to the States in a heartbeat and since we are in good health, we will not be a strain on the medical health system down there.
@jillmalitz (5132)
• United States
21 Jan 08
You have some very good thoughts and questions. Texas has so many and they do cost the state alot. I dont think it is fair to the legal immigrants who work hard to get here and do pay their fair share. But you may be right, Maybe we need to look at the current laws and how they could be made more effective. Then again this would be a job for those elected officials in Washington. We all know how well they do things.
@vicki2876 (5640)
• Canada
21 Jan 08
I don't really know how to feel about it. I am in Canada where I don't think it is too hard to get in here. So I guess I don't see the harm in allowing people to come. I think you will get used to paying the higher price for things over time I guess? I think that if they are getting in anyways you might as well get them paying taxes then, right?
@anniepa (27280)
• United States
21 Jan 08
I think that would be a good idea. I've never really understood why it takes so long to come here legally and I also haven't been able to figure out how these illegal immigrants get all the government services. I understand they can't be turned away in a medical emergency for health care but what other social services do they receive if they're here illegally and risk deportation if they're caught? I'm glad you started this discussion because you live somewhere where it's a much more prevalent problem than it is here in Pa. so you understand it much better than I ever could but I believe it is more a matter for some people (certainly not all) of being against immigrants in general and the fact that they're "illegal" gives them an excuse to attack them. Also I think our economy is hurt a lot more by our jobs being outsourced over seas than by the illegal immigrants from Mexico taking them. I've personally known quite a few who have lost their jobs to outsourcing but no one who has been let go in favor of an illegal immigrant. Annie