What's the point?

While I can see your point of view sweety and totally believe in and respect your right to that opinion I totally disagree! Mind you having said that the set up in both the uk and oz could be totally different bu there taxes are quite high and there are so many of them! I consider myself a good Mum , in fact I think I am a fantastic Mum but I have to work to make ends meet and things have become very difficult since I had to give up work. I have paid taxes and National Insurance since I was 16 years old and worked full time, sometimes 2 and 3 jobs (paying tax on them all) to make ends meet! i only stopped working full time when Niamh was born and it was impossible to fit my hours in with my partners shifts so i worked part time instead. When I was first told by my dr that I should be signed off work I refused point blank , cut my hours back a little more and keprt going til I had my surgery, then I tried for the first time in my life to take a little back and was turned down as I hadn't paid enough NI in the previous couple of years! Doesn't matter that I had paid full tax and NI for over 16 years and never asked for anything back! I think if only people who could afford to stay at home and raise their kids were allowed to have children then the population of earth would dwindle very , very quickly and within a couple of generations where would we be? Here they are trying to help with the cost of childcare if your income is in a certain region but not fully tax deductable! i am not going to go on as i think I may be straying from the point (what else is new) but in ending I just wanted to remind you of the old adage that it takes a village to raise a child and who knows what one of those children who the man in the street is supporting may go on to do with their lives to benefit the whole world? Hugs sweety! xxx

well would you prefer that they stayed home collected welfare and you still had to pay. At least they are trying to be productive individuals and need a little help to do it. Until you are in that situation yourself you will not see how hard it is to make ends meet. There are different reasons why people work, some is because they need the extra money to put food on their table. Welfare, though no shame in it is not the easiest existence in the world, rents are outrages and need too salaries just to rent an appartment these days. what about the family that planned on having a child and ended up with triplets, they planned on one child now they have three? what about the family whose breadwinner made an excellent salary that payed for his kids, and then he lost his job and couldn't find anything in his field, and has to take a job thousands of dollars less a year and now the wife has to work too, there are many many reasons,

yup I know its crazy and if they do that then houses should be tax deductable too. all the interest we pay on them should be givin back to us like we paid over 9,000$ in house interest couldnt use that in deductions at all grrrrrrrrrr. and no dont make since there paying out $900 and only making $1,000 that cant help out the house hold finances what so ever!

I have to totally disagree with you here. In most cases both families do have to work to provide for their families. Yes some have it better than others but the fact is it's extremely hard to live on one income these days - I know it to be true in America. Maybe it is different in Australia I don't know. I like the idea of getting a tax break on child care. It does seem totally insane to have to pay so much but yet we do because we want our kids to be safe. Just because woman want or need to work though doesn't mean they should not have kids. In the US we do have gov't assisted child care for those who need it. And I like that idea. Esp for single moms who have no other choice but to work. I think gov't assistance is a good thing. Yes here in the states it needs to be better regulated but I think this world would be a hell of a lot better if we stepped up and started helping our fellow neighbors instead of just thinking about ourselves all the time(and I'm not saying that you are). I use to complain about paying school taxes as I have no children in school. But then I realized that I am essentially helping those who need it. And now I'm all for it.

I think you are completely justified in your opinion. i also do not understand why people should bear the cost of individual's choice to have children? If parents can't afford a child, they should not have. Why they should put the burden on others. I think sometimes the government try to impose rules taht are not acceptable at all.

This is as bad as the push here in America to make health insurance free for ALL kids. I have a job and I pay my health insurance premiums every month to make sure me and all 4 of my kids can see a doctor when I need to. If this act was ever passed I could change my work benefits to only include me. That would save me $40 a pay but then the government would be taking only god knows how much out of me in taxes to pay for the health insurance of all the other kids of working parents and all the kids of people on welfare. It just doesn't make sense to me. I had this situation where childcare was going to cost my ex almost as much as his paycheck if we both worked after I had both my boys. I worked cause I made more money. He watched them. When things got tight and I needed him to take a part time job working after I got home and he refused I threw him out. It seems I was able to save money not having to support him along with my kids. I've been asking someone to explain this to me almost since I got to this site. I'm still clueless. If someone shows you the light please direct me to the tunnel! lol

Hi Ms Tickle, You make some good points and it's a debatable issue for sure. The last two decades has seen allot of change in this country. Family values have taken a battering, but whether the changes are right or wrong is the debatable issue based on opinion. Women don't only choose to work because of the wages. They too want a career. Women need to be stimulated, want more. We all seem to WANT more. Some how, along the road to providing for our families we didn't find the 'enough' button. Child care costs are out of control, it is a 'you get what you pay for' industry and so the costs are sky high. Is there enough regulation in this industry? dodoguy makes a good point about establishing and maintaining a sustainable domestic population base in this country, which is as reliant on women as men. Young men and women are at their peak in their 20's in their contribution to the brains trust of industry, commerce, government etc. As our population ages we are very reliant on the productivity of the workforce. Pensions don't come from nowhere. The saying 'you have to spend money to make money' perhaps fits in here, maybe it's a bit obscure. We need to assist people financially in order to secure our own financial futures. Times are changing, we don't do things the same anymore. Both parents are going to go to work. And let's not forget there are many many more single parent families, split families where there is the major reliance on child care. I am in favor of Social Security and free health care and if it means subsidising childcare to maintain it then I'm in favor of it. There are always people who will abuse any system, that unfortunately is human nature. But to not have any security net that protects people from destitution is not humane in my eyes.

Apparently your country needs people to keep it running. Free childcare encourages people to have children. And paying for it with taxes works the same way that education is paid for with taxes. An investment in children is an investment in the future of your country. Also, at least in my reality, things aren't always so black and white. Sometimes both parents must work to support their family. And not every pregnancy is planned. But I think it would be more equitable if the childcare was based on family income. Those who have the ability to pay should have a fee. I think this would make for better quality of care. When someone pays for something they take ownership and better care of it. Perhaps parents who paid would be more invested in monitoring the quality of care the children are getting.

I agree to a point..If a woman can do better staying home to care for her children than that is best for her to stay home..These days women have high paying jobs that benefit the family more if she works...She usually makes much more than she has to pay out in child care,while others only make enough to pay for child care,if she only makes enough to pay for child care than she should not work...When my children were small i had to stay home with my children because it would not pay me to work...Women who have high paying jobs it pays them to work because even though they do have to pay child care they also have a lot of money left over after child care to help support the family...

tax deductable mean that that portion of their money is not taxed - but I do agree with you as the parent who keeps their child at home has expenses related to that as well. the thing that bothers me in tax paying is I pay public school taxes, as does every other tax payer here - no problem, okay. BUT, if I send my child to a private school I have to pay taxes on that money, or if I home educate I have to pay taxes on the money earned to buy the curriculum and supplies as well as sales tax when I buy them. seems like a double jeopardy.

I'm not sure how it works in Australia, but here in America - children pay for everyone's old age. Children today grow up to pay the taxes that support social security which the adults of today will recieve when they retire. Without that base - no one will have a social security. The decrease in children being born and the increase in elderly is causing big problems because there will be no money to support the elderly in the future. Many governments are actually giving people incentives (such as childcare credits) to encourage people to have children.

Oh my gosh!! I found someone who feels the same as I do!! Although I'm not in Australia, but in the states, here people with children get a lot more back in taxes. People like my husband and I, who don't have children don't get any extra. We have to pay the taxes that these child bearing people have. I don't see how that's fair. I didn't have their children, they did, so why do we have to pay for them? AND, hubby and I wanted children but we just couldn't have any so it's a even bigger bite to us. A slap in the face every year,

There are people who have kids that want to work too... People who want to give their kids a good life. At least they would not be sponging your tax dollars on social security payments that way. If they are out working and paying their own way for childcare, doesnt that mean they are paying their own taxes on their own salary??? Why should people have to make a choice between having kids and working?? If there was ever a choice, then the umemployment rates would go way up and the population would follow suit....

I agree totally. of course i have no kids myself. People make choices and why should anyone else pay for those choices. If I choose to buy a big house I cannot really afford, can I ask the government to pay for it out of taxes? Of course not.

Hate to disagree with you but in today's lousy economy it's more often the norm for it being a two income family nowadays, and even then, most people with children can't make ends meet. It's not just a question of not being able to afford having kids, but all the other lovely bills that go with just living today....mortgages, rent, utilities, food. It was different years and years ago, too, when the classic family scenario was that the husband was the sole breadwinner, while the only "career" choice a woman had back then was to be the wife, stay home have and raise kids--I'm talking say in my grandparents, or great-grandparents time. But most women in today's world and lifestyle do want it all...both to have the children AND a career..why shouldn't she, especially if she spent years getting a college degree in some field and wants to pursue her career? And what about women who are single moms and HAVE to work. My own mother was a single mom. My parents were divorced and I grew up with my mother and grandmother who both worked....in my younger years my great-grandmother took care of me, then when my grandmother, mother and I moved and as I was a little bit older I was a latchkey kid as they still had to work--As far as single moms now...which is better? The woman who has that child go to work and have some kind of childcare, or her stay home and raise her child but get all kinds of government help??