since animal testing on some cosmetics and soaps are forbidden

@suspenseful (40312)
Canada
February 26, 2008 8:38pm CST
Then how to they find out if the cosmetics, shampoos, lotions, soaps, etc. cause reaction? Wait until the user comes out with a rash, or even candida or a yeast infection? My young son bought me a bath soap set from the Body Shop that have the policy of producing products that are free of animal testing because they do not want to hurt the poor little rats, mice or rabbits, but what about me? I can get a bar of Neutrogena or Ivory Soap, but do I have to try a gift product and start itching down below, because even the bath water does not dilute it enough to be ineffective and because they felt that it was all right for me and hundreds of other women to start itching, or having rashes, yet it was no all right for a rabbit to have a rash on its paws? Well if the product caused a slight discomfort to the rabbit, they would have put it down as not suitable for people with sensitive skin. Where is the justice? Am I of less importance than a rabbit?
9 people like this
17 responses
@sedel1027 (17850)
• United States
27 Feb 08
The products that do not test on animals have people on staff that voluntarily try out the products. In my opinion that is how it should be done, not through animals.
3 people like this
@suspenseful (40312)
• Canada
27 Feb 08
But what if the people on the staff do not have an allergy to the product? I mean they would have to hire people who have extremely sensitive skins. And what if someone with an allergy does not volunteer. After all, if I knew that an hour after I tried a product that I would be getting hives or a rash, and it would itch for days, or if I were to get a yeast infection, I would not try it either.
2 people like this
• United States
28 Feb 08
And suspensful, would you mind letting me know how exactly they would know a rabbit had sensitive skin? Rabbits don't speak, or try out products, so all they would know is this product cause 1 out of 100 rabbits to develop a rash. And by the way that doesn't mean its not still distrubuted.
1 person likes this
@sedel1027 (17850)
• United States
28 Feb 08
Good point Kristal. I do believe that the labs choose certain animals that are known to have skin similar to a humans as far as reactions. I do think that only ones that have severe reaction are not marketed, but I believe most of the products that produce reactions are put on the shelves.
1 person likes this
@Lakota12 (42678)
• United States
27 Feb 08
very well sounds like it BUt if that is the case maybe ya should have tested it on your hands before useing it or some other place not sure where. wehn ya know it hasnt been tested
3 people like this
@suspenseful (40312)
• Canada
27 Feb 08
It was no where near the place where it hurt. I would rather it was tested on a volunteer BEFORe it came to market. I did mot volunteer to be a guinea pig.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27520)
• United States
27 Feb 08
"I did mot volunteer to be a guinea pig." Neither did the rabbits, mice - or guinea pigs! There are humans who do volunteer, as I and other have said repeatedly here, but that's no guarantee you won't have a reaction to any given product. Testing on a helpless animal won't make that any less likely either. Annie
1 person likes this
@Lakota12 (42678)
• United States
28 Feb 08
suspencfull. I didnt say ya was but I would have tried it on something like you hand before using it and just some products are not for certain people. It was a nice thought and present but if ya was afraid to use it I wouldnt have I cant wear perfume but my dad bought me some I still have it on my dresserwell always keep it for it was last thing he bought me. ya just dont have to use the stuff keep it out to look pretty somewheres
1 person likes this
@winterose (39893)
• Canada
27 Feb 08
animal testing is human they stopped it years ago because they have the technology to test without sacrificing animals, read up on the net for how they do it.
3 people like this
@suspenseful (40312)
• Canada
27 Feb 08
Oh and when does a computer have feelings? They have to test it on somebody or only those who NEVer get allergies can use these products. The latter do not care because they can use anything, but people like me who get itches and rashes from certain soaps or people like my brother-in-law who cannot enter a pine forest because he has a strong allergy suffer.
1 person likes this
@slickcut (8141)
• United States
27 Feb 08
I have never really thought about that..You are right if it is not tested on animals ,how do they test it to see if it is safe for humans???Maybe some of our friends that are animal activist might know...We will just have to read what they say,because i would like to know too....
3 people like this
@anniepa (27520)
• United States
27 Feb 08
Humans volunteer to try the products. Think about it - who or what is likely to have a similar reaction to yours from using a cosmetic product, a fellow human being or an animal that obviously doesn't have the same physical make-up as you do? There is no need to be cruel to animals so we can use products to make us smell nice and look pretty! This isn't even about finding cures or treatments for diseases, this is about cosmetics! Sorry, but the more I read this the angrier I'm getting. You don't have to be an "animal activist" to be against cruelty to innocent animals who have no choice in the matter. Annie
2 people like this
@terri0824 (4991)
• United States
27 Feb 08
So maybe they do testing on humans. They put it out to trial to humans first before they put it on the market. I don't know but that would only make sense on how it is done, if they don't animal test.
3 people like this
@suspenseful (40312)
• Canada
27 Feb 08
I hope they do, but I hear that they do it on computers.
1 person likes this
@Grandmaof2 (7602)
• Canada
27 Feb 08
Animals have always been top priority. I'm thankful that we have our little Maltese puppy and equally as happy we have the best vet in the world. I do know for sure if our puppy got sick our vet would never let the dog suffer the way I've had to do at times or my husband either. So are we less important than a rabit? Apparently so, I don't know???
2 people like this
• Canada
27 Feb 08
Yes Suspensful I know it's most frustrating I agree.
@pyewacket (44032)
• United States
28 Feb 08
You are so wrong suspenseful to think that after animals are tested on, that they are "fixed" up by a vet..they are NOT. They are left to suffer until they die miserable deaths, then discarded like so much garbage
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40312)
• Canada
6 Mar 08
But computers do not have feelings and they cannot tell us if they have a rash. Do they still use prisoners to test products? I doubt it not since the Nazis who used the people in concentration camps. And the volunteers in the universities are usually healthy and have no problems. It is as if people are not valued and we have to wait until we buy the product to find out if it is safe.
@pyewacket (44032)
• United States
27 Feb 08
Image Of A Rabbit Being Tested For Cosmetics  - image of animal tested rabbit
Suspenseful,...I think you may be all too aware of my viewpoints about animal testing...and please give me the courtesy of hearing me out about this. First of all, I have to agree with OreoCookie about a lot of points she made here. Many of the products, such as those from Body Shop, Tom's of Maine, even Avon, do not test on animals, and the ingredients of most of these products are usually one-hundred percent natural ingredients, many are made from derivatives of herbals and natural botanicals. Whether ingredients are natural or not, tested on animals or not, is no guarantee that some people might have an allergic reaction to them. As OreoCookie also pointed out, for those companies that do not test on animals, human volunteers are instead tested on. You no doubt may have an allergic reaction to one or more of the ingredients, but that could be true of any product you may use, whether natural or not. This is actually the kinder way and more realistic way to test any product, as how can any product that is tested on animals verify how humans will react to a product..their physiological make up is completely different from we humans. Slight discomfort to a rabbit (or mice, rats, monkeys)??? SLIGHT?? There is no such thing as SLIGHT discomfort in animal testing. Rabbits are given strong solutions of the testing product ( much stronger than the normal indicated usage of the product) often in there eyes (not their paws) causing them blindness. Beagles have been purposely set on fire alive to test the affects of burns...uh, don't we kind of know that already?What I say here are mere words.....but pictures are worth more than words...I invite you to watch these videos...please do watch....then maybe you will agree that there is no such thing as a slight discomfort to animals being tested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xubRQBkXk7Y&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWgoxbIzFhc&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iccmDK2UbZs&feature=related
2 people like this
@pyewacket (44032)
• United States
28 Feb 08
The Fate Of Cats After Testing - images of cats used for animal testing
I just have to add that you seem to think suspenseful that animals that are used for testing are taken care of by vets..this is the furthest from the truth...Here's a picture of cats that were used for animal testing...do they look like they've been taken care of?
1 person likes this
@Galena (9120)
4 Apr 08
got to disagree about those products being anywhere near 100% natural. don't really know about the Toms od Maine, never even seen those, but Body Shop and Avon are far from it. I'm not someone that thinks all products should have to be completely natural for me to enjoy them, but I like to read an ingredients list and know what everything on it is, and why it's in there. I read the back of a Body Shop banana conditioner bottle the other day, and could not find banana listed at all. lots of foaming agents, several kinds of preservative. no banana. this doesn't mean it's bad, just that it's really not very natural at all.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40312)
• Canada
14 Apr 08
I used to buy Avon, but since I found that I was allergic to chemically based perfumes, I am not wary of buying from them. But I remember when I had to have my eyes tested and that was when there was animal testing. The drops did not hurt my eyes, but I wondered what if the drops had been tested on humans and one of the human's eyes were irritated to the point of becoming blind. You see when you put animals above humans and say humans should volunteer and it is their fault if they get an itch, things might go wrong. That is what I am against, turning decent humans into guinea pigs. If you want some poor soul to test that cosmetic, cream, or soap, why not those for whom their crimes are so great, serial killers or ax murderers awaiting execution. And you should know those tests shown are not the normal ones done. They are the worse of the worse. Decent medical laboratories do not do them.
@Stiletto (4582)
27 Feb 08
The products are still tested but they are mainly tested on humans instead of animals, which is really the way it should be. I've taken part in trials of new products. It's not that you are less important than a rabbit but is it right that the rabbit should bear the potential discomfort or suffering on your behalf? We have a choice as to whether we want to wear cosmetics or use soap and other manufactured products when there are natural alternatives available. Personally I think it's right that humans should be the ones that take the risk because at least they can volunteer to do so, animals don't have a choice.
2 people like this
@suspenseful (40312)
• Canada
14 Apr 08
Well not many would like you if you smelled. So we do need soap. You talk as if being clean was not important and if you smelled out to high heaven, that is all right because it was your fault you were allergic.
@Stiletto (4582)
14 Apr 08
Yes most of us would prefer to use soap and ensure that we were clean and didn't smell unpleasant. However, most of us don't think it's acceptable that an animal suffers in order for us to smell nice. Apart from anything else animal testing is by no means foolproof - there are, and always have been, lots of products on the market that have been subject to animal testing but still cause allergic reactions in some people. No form of testing, whether on animals or humans, will stop that happening.
1 person likes this
@nancyrowina (3850)
6 Mar 08
When I was at school I visited the Body shop factory and we had a tour the woman who took us on it explained they test products on the staff, the staff wear a patch with some of the product in it for 12 hours and see if it gives them a rash. She also explained that if it hurts them they can take it off unlike the animals who are often bound and unable to get the products out of their eyes (rabbits are used because they have no tear ducts so can't get things out of their eye's). Are you absolutely sure it was the soap that gave you the infection? I get yeast infection too and all sorts of things can cause it, I get it in hot weather if I don't wear lose enough clothing. Even stress can cause it and antibiotics, it would have to be pretty strong soap to give you yeast infection as it would have to effect the chemical balance of your private parts to do it. Report it to them as I'm sure they'll test the product further and even remove it from the shops if they find it is causing rashes and discomfort to people.
2 people like this
@anniepa (27520)
• United States
27 Feb 08
I personally will not purchase any cosmetic product that does animal testing. We can argue about the necessity of using animals for medical testing which may save lives of humans but I don't feel a poor rabbit, or even a poor little mouse or rat should have to go blind or worse so I can find a make-up or cream that doesn't irritate my eyes or skin. There are plenty of people who are more than willing to volunteer to test new products in a controlled setting for a reasonable compensation or even just for the opportunity to try new products for free. Testing soaps and other similar products on animals is no guarantee anyway that there won't be people who have reactions from them. Of course you're not less important than a rabbit but neither is the rabbit just a disposable object that it's fine to subject to pain and suffering and ultimately loss of life so you, I or anyone else have a slightly smaller chance of getting an itch or rash anywhere on our bodies. Annie
2 people like this
@suspenseful (40312)
• Canada
14 Apr 08
Would it not be feasible for the products and I do not use makeup, to be used on bad people, like they used to do years ago? That a convict in prison who was going to executed volunteer to get his sentence commuted to life? But assuming that animals are all innocent and we all are bad, that they have not be contaminated by original sin but we have is wrong. If a human deserves to have a rash and a animal does not, then why not test it on humans who because of their crimes deserve to be hurt?
@Nykkee (2523)
• Canada
27 Feb 08
Most companies that do not use animal testing do test thier products, they just test them on humans, which I think is more effective anyhow. They just pay people to be thier "guines pigs". There are even website where you can sign up for this and all other types of paid testing work. www.gpgp.net/ go check it out. Plus there are things that humans may react to that would not affect a rabbit as well as things that could be benficial to us but would hurt a rabbit. It's not very effective testing.
27 Feb 08
Thanks for the link! I'd love to sign up to volunteer for things like this. I have very sensitive skin so I'd either be a perfect pick or ignored... oh well, worth a try!
2 people like this
@Galena (9120)
4 Apr 08
seeing as the body shop is owned by L'oreal I don't really hold much confidence in it being "against animal testing" as they claim. I mean what does that mean anyway. saying "against animal testing" is not the same as saying "not tested on animals" the vast majority of ingredients used in skincare have existed and been used for a long, long time. it's known what quantities of certain ingredients bring an increased risk of reactions or sensitivity. and often new products are tested on panels of willing human guinea pigs. the way products are tested on animals it would be more than a "slight reaction" in their case. it would be prolonged pain and suffering. they don't just wash them in it and see what happens. to certifify a product for sale, the ingredients have to be in quantities not exceeding those recommended by a central panel. there will always be someone who will react to certain ingredients. a surprising number of people are sensitive to lavendar essential oil, which is particularly good for sensitive skin. if you are prone to thrush, urinary problems, or rashes, then start reading your ingredients lists and avoid products that foam up, as some people are sensitive to foaming agents, whearas others can brush their teeth in SLS heavy toothpastes twice a day their whole lives and never have the slightest problem. cosmetic testing is inexcusable.
2 people like this
@angemac23 (2004)
• Canada
27 Feb 08
It's not a matter of importance here, its equality....sorry to burst your bubble, but rats, rabbits and mice are living things as well and we humans have no right to take their lives in our hands! Humans are selfish and becasue we have to have beautifully smelling products that make our hair silky and shiny and prevent break outs on our faces, innocent creatures die....This testing on animlas has to stop....we would not like it if animals decided to test products on us!! But we have no worry about that because animals are defenseless and humans, being the bullies that we are, prey on the weak and innocent....
2 people like this
• Australia
29 Feb 08
The Body Shop products are control tested very carefully on humans. Patch testing they call it. Most of the ingredients they use are natural any way so are less likely to cause irritations.
1 person likes this
@Galena (9120)
4 Apr 08
you really need to read their ingredients lists. they contain some essential oils. this isn't the same as being mostly natural. because it's not. and they're owned by L'oreal. who aren't exactly known for an animal friendly policy.
2 people like this
• Australia
14 Apr 08
And that really goes to show that I need to get out more! Hhhmmm, my glass box is getting smaller all the time! lol. Tbanks for pointing that out. I'm not going to resort to making my own soap from animal fats though! Eeewwww, slimey stuff that you just can't get rid of! lol. I don't think there are any truely natural products out there these days. Sad but true.
1 person likes this
@Galena (9120)
14 Apr 08
not many. I work for Lush, which is pretty natural, but not 100% natural. some products we sell are, others have things like foaming agents, some synthetic fragrances (synthetic musk being a prime example, as the real stuff is nasty) and some preservatives. fairly natural, but not entirely. some companies sell some natural products, but they are fairly sparse.
2 people like this
@callarse1 (4787)
• United States
15 Apr 08
The companies have people that try the products. I would hope they would choose ingredients that are gentle for sensitive people if that's what they're trying to market. Animals aren't good test subjects on many things because they may have different effects than us. It's better to have lots of people try it to see what happens. Pablo
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40312)
• Canada
15 Apr 08
Why do they use good people? Why do they not go to the prisons and ask the bad men and women to volunteer to get reduced sentences?
27 Feb 08
You are clearly allergic to a certain ingredient. This would not have been discovered in animal or human testing (unless some of the volunteers were also allergic to that specific ingredient). I haven't used cosmetics tested on animals for thirteen years and have experienced no ill effects from 99.9999% of them. Actually, the only non-animal tested products I have had problems with are those from Body Shop. Heaven knows what it is but I am allergic to something they put in their soap and shower gel. Creams and moisturisers I'm fine with, but cleaning products and bubble baths are a no go. You probably have the same problem I have. Try something more natural, a handmade African neem soap, for example. I love neem oil... it smells yummy. I have far more problems with animal tested products. As a kid I found I was allergic to almost every soap on the market. Most just made me itch but Imperial Leather brought me out in hives! "Where is the justice?" Where is the justice in torturing, for days or even weeks, a hundred animals so that you can use a beauty product? There are many, many ethical products out there; ethical in animal welfare, ecology protection and fair-trading standards. Look them up, try them out. Use something without SLSs in it...
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40312)
• Canada
15 Apr 08
That is where my younger son got the set he save me. So I must be allergic to Body Shop Products as well. I know there are ethical animal testers out there, but all we here about are the abusers.
@xkristalx (231)
• United States
28 Feb 08
Thats not exactly the point, the point is rabbits don't need body lotion. Company's like Bath and Body Works, Clinique, and Urban Decay, that do not test on animals still test their products. First they use ingredients that are not known to be allergins or to have negative side effects. Then they pay people to try out the products to see if there is any kind of reaction. Animal testing isn't forbidden, infact its completely legal and common brands like Covergirl and Loreal use animals to determine if their product is safe. I personally would rather buy a product that doesn't have a ton of strange chemicals in it and then was actually tested on people, since a rabbit wouldn't experience the same side effects anyway. Clinique tests each new cosmetic on 600 different people and if a single one has a reaction, they formulate. And you might be thinking "OMG how could they test on people thats HORRIBLE" but people are well compensated, given health care if there is a problem and continously checked up on for their long term health. Plus many products by law have to be tested on people in the first place. And as a broke college student I would try a new type of makeup for a few humdred dollars.
1 person likes this