Chines Red fascist police raid factory for making Tibetan flags

May 3, 2008 10:10am CST
Here's an interesting news story from a few days ago. It seems that the Communist Chinese police have raided a factory in Guangdong in southern China after being tipped off by some of the workers there that Tibetan flags were being made. Apparently the factory owner - who must be an unusually enterprising and worthwhile individual - had secured a large order from the Tibetan government in exile. Good for him, I say. It's unfortunate that some of his workers would apparently rather support a tyrannical regime like the one currently infesting Beijing, even at the cost of their own jobs. Apparently thousands of these flags had already been packed for shipping and some may already have gone overseas - now the police are wasting their time stopping searching traffic that's on its way to the Shenzhen Special Economic Zone and onwards to Hong Kong, in a probably futile attempt to seize all the flags before they get into the right hands. I hope the factory owner isn't mistreated too badly by the Red fascists - he sounds like the kind of citizen any country needs more of.
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9 responses
@Perry123 (363)
3 May 08
whilst there are problms wit China re dmcractic rform t is worth remembring how far it is come since the days of tanks in tianamen square. On of the underlying principles of Libertarianism is that it is NOT the business of a government to interfere with the sovereign affairs of another; and that trade will be the thing that gradually demands reform of governement authoritarianism and also conflict. Essentially it was trade that eventually brought peace after the crusades, and perhaps also northern ireland. Those that give credence to claims for Tibetan independance would do well to remember the Dalai Lama was educated by SS man Heinrich Herrer.
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• China
4 May 08
Please read 8 floor thanks
1 person likes this
4 May 08
The so-called reforms in China are exaggerated, IMIO. The Communist Party still has a tight grip on the reigns of power, and the limited pro-market reforms that have been taking place are intended purely to keep the economy going, as pure socialism obviously doesn't work. Of course the longer-term threat to the status quo there is the potential rise of a new middle class, together with the difficulty of controlling information when they're having to let people use the internet more and more. I give it maybe 10 or 20 years before political revolution hits in one form or another.
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4 May 08
Incidentally, I wouldn't make too much of the Dalai Lama's former association with Heinrich Harrer. Apart from the fact that guilt by association doesn't seem consistent with your normal libertarian outlook, Harrer seems to have packed in the nazism in later life. People do change - an acquaintance of mine took part in the poll tax riots in his foolish youth, and is now a libertarian Liberal Democrat.
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• China
4 May 08
Hi guy,I dont think here is the best place to talk about this,Also I think you do not know China at all,Have you ever been to China?Where you get the News?Of course from the newspaper or magzine,they all lead people to the wrong way or something.Yes,China Goverment are in the trouble of Tibet,But that is Chinese inside issue,anyone dont have the right to shout at chinese people.capitalism media always trying to control people in their land.if you want to know china,I think you can come to China and see what is happening there,Why all this happened,before this,dont say anything about anyone ok? anyway,thanks for your interest in China
• China
4 May 08
yeah,i'll be for you! Support China and Beijing Olympic Games!
4 May 08
So the entire news media of the world, both official and unofficial, plus all the human rights groups are completely wrong about the poor, pathetic, persecuted government of China? I doubt it.
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@Perry123 (363)
6 May 08
The massive couverage given to four demonstrators at the torch ceremony was way ott. Yet NO coverage has been given to massive pro smokers rights marches in France for example. I agree that the west's criticism of China is out of order. China is becoming more liberal it can't happen overnight and the best way ot support its move to gradual change is to support Bejing's olympics. Not to do so would be to hurt normal chinese people. As for you assertion Stuart that Communism can be compared with fascism: well yes in its state control and lack of respect for individual righs yes I agree. As I said it was a point of order; and also worth again raising the fact tha Buddhism CAN (though this isn't an inherent criticism of buddhism)be used to support elitist doctrines: and that it a particular worry when the present Dalai Lama was educated by a Nazi SS man (Heinrich Harrer) http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Harrer It is often convenient for the West to ignore unsavoury truths about Nationalist indpendence movements because it suits them . They have done exactly the same in recognising Kosovan indpndnce: forgetting the origins of the KLA were in the Skanderbeg SS , and more latterly having had close ties to Al Quaeda.
@xboxboy (5578)
3 May 08
i saw this in the news. it was a bit crazy to do this within china. god help him. i do not think the authorities will go soft on him. but it was either stupid or very brave. but to be honest, it was a money making decission as it had no political stance.
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• China
4 May 08
Please red 8 floor thanks
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4 May 08
Yes, it's one job I'd have turned down. No money's worth facing what passes for justice in Red China.
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@gewcew23 (8010)
• United States
3 May 08
The owner will probably be either shot or never heard of again. That is what happens when you let government take care of you, they really take care of you. Chiness are owned by the Chiness government. I do not understand why people cannot put two and two together. Some will say well yes it is horrible what happen in China, but will elect politicians that bring us closer and closer to China. What harm did this guy, nothing, but neither the guy who wants his food cooked in transfat. It is a flag, not a nuclear bomb. Yes I understand that the Chiness government is at war with Tibet, but arrest someone for making flags. Here in the States we call that Capitalism. Companies here in the States make flags of other Countries all the time. Some will still say that government controling everything is still a good thing, I do not get it.
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• China
4 May 08
Please read my response in 8 floor thanks
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4 May 08
Absolutely right, I could probably buy Red Chinese or Nazi flags with no problem. Governments that suppress free expression are obviously afraid of their own people. This story actually slightly reminds me of a story I read a year or two back, about a shopkeeper in Beiruit who specialises in selling flags for protestors to burn (flag burning being a popular pastime in those parts). He said American and Israeli flags were his biggest sellers, but he didn't personally take any political stance, he was just selling a product. I imagine Syrian flags would have been selling quite well lately ;-)
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• United States
6 May 08
what if some factories in USA is making banners and supply stuff for taliban? how will the US government react?
7 May 08
They wouldn't - why would they? There's no law against making flags. If there was, Nazi swastikas and communist flags would have been banned years ago, but you can still buy them, can't you?
@Alle91 (188)
• Australia
10 May 08
The nazi flag is banned in some countries...eg. germany, france, italy
@Perry123 (363)
10 May 08
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/5003/buddhisttempleat0.jpg Some places of course will nver ban the swasika. It is a buddhist symbol. http://www.bookch.com/pictures/7394.jpg
• China
4 May 08
The factory owner should be punished,when the so called tibet gorvernment in exile want to seek independent from China,and it may be sponsored by those who wants to separate China.This is no democracy,This is the unity of a country.
@Alle91 (188)
• Australia
4 May 08
I don't think he should be punished...maybe given a good warning. I doubt he actually knew what they were making...
• China
4 May 08
If the owner of the factory is only a blind businessman who has little to do with politic,he will surely be OK.The Chinese government won't punish him too hard.But if he is a member of the Dalai Group,things will be diferent...
4 May 08
Legitimate governments don't punish people for disagreeing with them, and they don't suppress political debate. If the Chinese government want the Tibetans to stay in their empire, they should use persuasion instead of force.
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@Alle91 (188)
• Australia
4 May 08
I fail to understand if Tibet is so anti-China, why they would still be getting their flags manufactured there.
@Perry123 (363)
4 May 08
Par of my point is that trade, whether supply or demand, can overcome obstacles of ideology and dogma. China will realise that actually they could have made this factory owner a hero and at the same time ridiculed Tibetan independence ideas. I hav little sympathy for th noton of tibtan indpndence , think it i dangerous and in the nd the Wts support of it will backfire. Far better is to encourage trade and that in the end will overcome politics; AND the dogma of ideologies whether they be that of the Dalai Lama or that of China....or for that matter that of the West
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@Alle91 (188)
• Australia
4 May 08
logical comment perry =] thanks.
• China
4 May 08
please read 8 floor,thanks
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• Philippines
4 May 08
Chinese sovereignty will always resides in the chinese government whether it is communist or democratic. Chinese citizens and other people who resides in china must always follow its law and policies. If they feel otherwise then they should leave the country. If its citizens feel that the government is a tyrant then they should do something about it legally or extraconstitutional. So I feel the situation is justified imagine if one makes a flag for al-queda in the united states, what do you think the US would do to that person?
• China
4 May 08
Please read 8 floor,thanks for your interesting in this discussion
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4 May 08
The US government wouldn't have done anything to someone making Al Queda flags - there's no law against that. They probably would have discreetly investigated to see if those flags were going to anyone who was doing something illegal, but the factory owner himself would have been OK. Legitimate governments aren't afraid of criticism.
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@Perry123 (363)
4 May 08
Pont of order Stuart the reason China are so hard on tibetan independence and Buddhism is that they remember the attrocities of the buddhist state of japan against them, and make the same point as me of the links between the nazis and the Dalai Lama. So they may still be authoritarian but not Fascist: they are profoundly anti Fascist.
• China
4 May 08
please read 8 floor,thanks for interesting in this topic
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4 May 08
I disagree. Fascism being a variant of socialism where a certain amount of private ownership of business is allowed, but the State still has overall control, it seems quite a good description of the way the present Chinese setup has evolved.