Obama's birth certificate -- the controversy lives on ...
By ladyluna
@ladyluna (7004)
United States
July 9, 2008 8:03am CST
Hello All,
Many of us have seen the controversial image of Barack Obama's birth certificate on the Daily Kos, and Sen. Obama's website, and to be sure, much heated exchange has followed. Yet, it would seem that the controversy has not yet been put to rest.
Here is a link to the edited version of the birth certificate released by Sen. Obama:
http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg
"Jay McKinnon, a self-described Department of Homeland Security-trained document specialist, has implicated himself in the production of palpably fake Hawaii birth certificate images similar to the one endorsed as genuine by the Barack Obama campaign, and appearing on the same Daily Kos blog entry where the supposedly authentic document appears," the new Insider report said.
"McKinnon, who uses the "opendna" screen name, has posted various images described as a "Certification of Live Birth" on Photobucket, and they have a "common visual signature" which is a dot that appears in the same location on the images, the Insider said.
The same dot appears on the Kos certificate, and on the campaign's website, it also shows up "albeit a bit … smeared," the report said. It cited other similarities between the Obama certificate and the Photobucket version, including an identical birth time of 7:24 p.m.
"The odds of an identical time occurring by chance in two certificates is 1440 to 1," the report said. "Either the former is derived from the latter, or the latter is derived from the former."
"If the birth certificate endorsed by his campaign turns out to be a fraud – and the overwhelming evidence assembled points to it being precisely that – what would that say about the credentials and judgment of the presidential candidate it purports to represent? Let alone his Constitutional eligibility to serve," the report said.."
You can read the full story here:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=69126
_____________________________________________________________
[b]My questions to you are:
1. The Obama campaign could certainly put this whole matter to rest, if they simply complied with the request to release the unedited document. So, why do you suppose the Obama campaign has not yet complied?
2. If you were running for President, and questions about your Constitutional eligibility arose, wouldn't you want to quell the concerns? Or, do you see some value in keeping the hullabaloo alive?
3. Do you think that Sen. Obama should release the unedited version of his birth certificate?
What are your thoughts on this matter?
Thanks! I look forward to reading all of your responses![/b]
3 people like this
13 responses
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
9 Jul 08
The most plausible explanation for not releasing the real birth certificate I've seen is that perhaps Obama's religion is listed.
Obama is eligible to run for President even if he was born in Kenya as rumored because his mother was unquestionably an American. If your mother is an American, you are a naturalized American no matter where in the world you are born.
I'm sure that the Obama campaign, having wrestled the nomination for the Presidency away from the foremost political machine in Presidential politics, is quite competant. If they are not releasing the orginal, rest assured there is darn good reason not to release it.
4 people like this
@piasabird (1737)
• United States
9 Jul 08
Can you show me a web site where it says that he is an American if he was born in another country because his mother is American? I know it works that way if you're born to someone who is in the military and serving in another country. However I am not so sure it would work in this case since she was not in the military at the time of his birth.
And even if it has his religeon listed it would mean nothing to me if it says he was a Muslim. It doesn't mean he isn't a Christian now.
3 people like this
@redyellowblackdog (10629)
• United States
9 Jul 08
LadyLuna,
I'd like to know that darn good reason, too. The only problem is that the darn good reason could be just to distract Obama's political enemies and make them look foolish when the birth certificate is finally revealed.
I lean toward the hypothesis it contains his declared religion at birth.
3 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
9 Jul 08
Hello Red,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.
I'd sure like to know what the "darn good reason" might be, wouldn't you? It strikes me as counter-productive to allow these kinds of rumors to float about, when it would be so easy to assuage.
2 people like this
@Destiny007 (5805)
• United States
9 Jul 08
1. He obviously is hiding something for whatever reason, and that is why he does not release his birth certificate.
2. Yes, otherwise there would always be questions and the suspicion of ineligibility.
3. Yes, he should prove that he is eligible. After all, it is expected of candidates to release financial information and things much more sensitive then a birth certificate, so what is the big secret that he is so afraid everyone will discover?
4 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
9 Jul 08
Hello Destiny,
I agree! Though, what I believe he is hiding relates to the absence of a marriage certificate between his mother and father. His mother, Stanley-Ann, according to Obama's own accounts, and others that I have read (like his sisters and friends of hers) are that she was very anti-establishment, and ran with a red crowd. Given that mind-set, and the lax standards of 'official business' in Oahu during the 1960s, I tend to doubt that Obama's birth was ever registered with the County Clerk. If he cannot prove that he is a citizen, given his early upbringing in Indonesia, then there will most certainly be a legal challenge.
Excellent point, Destiny!!! Yes, a Presidential candidate is required to provide much more sensitive documentation than a birth certificate! So, why has he released his financials, and not a simple, verifiable birth certificate? Hmmmm?????
2 people like this
@Destiny007 (5805)
• United States
10 Jul 08
Since I was required to provide a birth certificate to prove my citizenship for my last employer as a result of immigration and hiring laws...and this was in 1986... I see no reason for a presidential candidate to refuse to produce proof of their citizenship.
1 person likes this
@academic2 (7000)
• Uganda
9 Jul 08
Americans really Amaze me- just look at the tea cup storm they are trying generate out of a petty issue such as a birth certificate fraudulently made in Hawai? Is Obama all that fake? I dont know because am not going to any polls here in my country-Catch him if he fraudster! Return him to Hawai via the back door? Politics can make human beings really so full of the loophole hunt! That is what we call Real Politik!!
2 people like this
@piasabird (1737)
• United States
9 Jul 08
I am so glad that we amaze you.
I think that we are pretty amazing myself.
Thank you!
2 people like this
@gewcew23 (8007)
• United States
9 Jul 08
Question 1 is the big one. If anyone wanted to know if I was a born American, it would be easy for me to prove it. Obama cannot and will not so that should prove something right there. The reason Obama cannot present an unedited document is because he does not have one.
Question 2 Well of course I would have dispell it right away. Proving my birthplace is not that big of deal. I can see not see anything good that could come from not producing the document unless their is no document.
Question 3 Obama should release an unedited version of his birth certificat, but do not hold your breath waiting for it. If you do, you will be setting an all time breath holding record. Though you could land a job with Star Trek as one of those Blue Aliens.
3 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
9 Jul 08
Hello Gewcew,
1. Yes, it is troubling that he has not disclosed certified, independent verification of the documentation. Having lived in Hawaii in the mid-1960s, I am very familiar with how the island mentality affected 'official business'. I would not be at all surprised if there was never a birth registered with the Honolulu County Clerk. Particularly in light of how 'anti-establishment' his mother was (based on Obama's own accounts, and those of his sister, and others who knew Stanley-Ann).
2. I also see no value in Obama allowing these rumors to still breathe. If he has the proof, then he needs to release it. Otherwise, if (Heaven forbid) he wins, and a legal challenge is brought after the election, then the US will be in a real mess. While a legal challenge is pending, he would not have the authorization to take the oath or office. Wouldn't that be a mess???
3. Hmmm, a Star Trek Blue Alien, now that's an intriguing career change. (chuckle, chuckle)
2 people like this
@wachit14 (3595)
• United States
9 Jul 08
Other than the fact that someone needs to prove that they are an American citizen, why would a candidate need to provide a birth certificate that is unedited? What exactly do people think he is hiding? My children have an altered birth certificate because they were both adopted. Some might think that they are false because of that, but they are perfectly legal as long as there is a seal on it.
As for the judgment or lack thereof of any candidate; they all lie about something or other, and/or they will tell their constituents exactly what they want to hear. When I vote this year, I will be voting for the less likely to be offensive rather then trying to discern who is being more truthful.
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
9 Jul 08
Hello Wachit,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this.
If you open the link I provided to the birth certificate, (which is zoom-able, you will see three troubling particulars:
1. There is a Nov 6 2003 or 2007 date stamp in the lower, middle-right corner. You'll identify it as a blue smudge. So, this is not a copy of his original birth certificate. That's not that big a deal.
2. What is a bigger deal is that there is no signature of "registrar of vital statistics", or the raised seal required to confirm that the "registrar" actually issued this copy in either 2003 or 2007. Allegedly, in Hawaii this registrar cert. & raised stamp would be on the back of the document. Yet, the Obama campaign has been unwilling to provide a scan of the back of the document. Or better yet, to present the birth certificate for independent verification and authentication.
3. And third, and most troubling is the fact that the certification number has been 'blacked out'. That certification number is the most vital 'proof' of the documents authenticity. Without it, this document is completely unverifiable.
2 people like this
@katsmeow1213 (28717)
• United States
9 Jul 08
Wouldn't they have had to prove his constitutional eligibility before he actually became a candidate? I mean he couldn't have gotten this far if he had a fake birth certificate, I assume that somewhere along the line he had to have show someone all of his documents such as the birth certificate and social security card. It just makes no sense to me, it all seems like a big rumor. Perhaps he started all this controversy just to get people talking about him, perhaps he feels it will help his campaign somehow.
3 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
9 Jul 08
Hello Katsmeow,
The burden of proof falls on the challenger! So, this issue would not have been disclosed, discovered, or investigated without a challenge.
I am a candidate, and all that I had to provide as proof of citizenship, and eligibility was my driver's license, and my voter registration certification. So no, he would not have automatically had to prove that he was a U.S. Citizen, that would have been assumed to be so. Yet, the failure to release a verifiable birth certificate is certainly suspect.
I lived in Hawaii in the mid-1960s. To say that they were lax would be an understatement. Hawaii had only been a state for a few years when Obama was born, so it is quite likely that there is no proof of citizenship. In which case, this is a matter for the courts. And, the election is only a four months away -- there is not enough time for a court to rule on this before the August Convention, or the November election.
Without proof, Obama can and very likely will be disqualified from holding the Office of the Presidency! This is why I am so confounded that Sen. Obama has not put these rumors to rest. For him, everything rides on that little official document!
1 person likes this
@piasabird (1737)
• United States
9 Jul 08
Maybe they felt it was no big deal when he showed them the fake, IF it is a fake. But now that he might win it's authenticity has come into question by the opposing side.
2 people like this
@katsmeow1213 (28717)
• United States
10 Jul 08
I see, that makes sense. Well if that is the case, and he is still not producing the document, I would have to assume the reason being is that he is trying to hide something.
1 person likes this
@clrumfelt (5490)
• United States
9 Jul 08
Of course Obama should release the unedited version of his birth certificate! To not release it means he is trying to hide something. Why not put to rest all the speculation by simply releasing the original? I can't think of a single political strategy that could be accomplished by withholding it.
@ClarusVisum (2163)
• United States
9 Jul 08
This is not a controversy. This type of identifcation is required before one is even allowed to RUN for President. If there was any issue, he wouldn't have even been able to enter the RACE in the first place.
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
10 Jul 08
Hello ClarusVisum,
Time will tell! This is not some new 'smear' tactic. The Illinois press has been trying to obtain proof of Sen. Obama's citizenship (i.e. his birth certificate) since before his Senate election.
Below is a copy of the "Statement of Candidacy" form from the Federal Election Commission. Please note that nowhere does the form ask if the applicant is a U.S. Citizen!
http://www.fec.gov/pdf/forms/fecfrm2.pdf
And, here is the link explaining all of the requriments relating to a national run.
http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/candregis.shtml#Registration_Candidate
1 person likes this
@baileycows (3665)
• United States
9 Jul 08
Yes, I think he should release an unedited version of the birth certificate. There is no reason to keep everyone wondering and making a big deal about it unless you have something to hide.
2 people like this
@retribution (23)
• Romania
9 Jul 08
In my opinion Barac Obama shoudn't be ashamed by his name and his race. After all ,we are only what god wants us to be and maybe Obama with a little luck and hard work will help USA become a better place
2 people like this
@piasabird (1737)
• United States
9 Jul 08
No one said he was ashamed of his name.
To be president here you have to be an American citizen, born on U.S.A. soil. That is what is in question here. Was he really born in Hawaii? Or was he born in another country?
4 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
10 Jul 08
You're welcome 6iovanni! And, welcome to MyLot. I hope that you thoroughly enjoy your time here.
Please feel free to copy any part herein. Though, there is much more information out there about this. Specifically, the Illiniois press has been trying to get Sen. Obama to release his proof of citizenship since before his Senate election. So, this is not some new 'smear' attempt.
1 person likes this
@bubbles20555 (1)
• United States
9 Aug 08
Yeah, this presidential candidate has been jetsetting all over the world. How hard would it be for him to fly over to Hawaii and pick up a certified copy of this document? Sheesh!
always, Derek
Apple Valley, California
1 person likes this
