Eloi, Eloi, Lema sabachtani...
November 13, 2008 5:45pm CST
Two Gospels only described the scene of Jesus Crucifixion and record his loud cry as follows: Eloi, Eloi, Lema sabachtani, (according to English Copies of the Bible), Eloi, Eloi, Lema asabtani (according to German copies of the Bible). As noted, both cries used a different slang than that of Jesus. It is near to the Arabic-Hebrew slang that was used by the residents of southern areas of Palestine in these times. Eloi or Elhij in Arabic-Hebrew means my God, as stated. Lema means also Why in Arabic-Hebrew as stated in the written translations. But sabachtanic, according to English copy, does not mean forsaken me, but it means pigmented me. Sabcha (or sabgcha) means a pigment. Asabtani, according to the German copies, also doesn’t mean forsaken me, but it means hurt me or shock me. So, there is a doubt concerning the man on the Cross because he used different language than Jesus, he is blaming God to be pigmented (may be by another shape) or hurt in some way. Finally, he is crying loudly in a completely different manner than that of Jesus to declare that he is another pigmented man. So, this scene is evidence to the fuzziness of Jesus Crucifixion. Someone claim that this sentence is a part of the Psalms. However, it not found there. And can you imagine a crying man may sing a song?
1 person likes this
17 Nov 08
I don't really understand why 'pigmented, stained, marked' or 'hurt' cannot be absolutely the same in meaning as 'forsaken'. Why might someone not say 'why have you marked me, singled me out for punishment/pain' at the point that they were due to be punished in Hell for all man's transgressions? How is that fundamentally different from - 'why have you forsaken me?' Jesus is known to have used languages appropriate to those he spoke to, though I honestly don't think he used any German in the Bible.... 'Mein Gott, Mein Gott, warum hat sie mich vergessen.....' you get the idea (it's thirty years since I failed German!)
18 Nov 08
for me I wouldn't care what language he said it in, I only know he said it. Deus meus Deus meus ut quid deriliquisti me? Perendia im Perendia im perse me ke braktisur? Ya tuhan-ku ya Tuhan-ku apaka sebabnya Engkau meninggalcan Aku? Boze moj Boze mjo zasto si me ostavio? min Gud min Gud varfor har du overgivit mig? No mater what language it is in it sounds as sweet doesn't it?
18 Nov 08
I find it astounding that people try to use the Bible to somehow disprove the Bible, far smarter people than me are happy with it's authenticity, and as I heard in another discussion recently - if you don't 'feel' it then don't believe it - simple as... either look at it with an open mind or leave it alone. I don't bother to read through the book of Mormon or the Qu'ran looking for mistakes - what would be the purpose - why would I be so arrogant as to think I would be the one to find the key to bring down an entire faith by examining it's own Holy Book?? I'm getting a bit sick of people trying to tell me my faith is somehow wrong. It is in my heart and it is informed from the Bible and my experience. A misunderstanding of a quote from Jesus is not going to shake that now is it?
• United States
15 Nov 08
You are incorrect in saying this word means "stain". I can find that NOWHERE. I think you may be using the incorrect root word, but I can't say since I don't know Hebrew. I do know your translation is wrong, according to everywhere I can find to look. The Psalms are a collection of songs and poems, of deep meaning to Hebrews, and later to Christians, as well as many of them being prophetic. It is not right to say that a dying man would sing a song! But a dying man may recite a poem or song that give great comfort and hope. More important, Jesus quoted His prophecy from Psalm 22:1 to show that the prophecy there was then being fulfilled.
15 Nov 08
I can not find it either, but some Semitic words have different meanings in other languages, I have shown that both the Greek and the Hebrew and Aramaic translations say 'left behind;forgotten ,or forsaken', I believe he is using an Arabic variation of the word. It is clear that Jesus was speaking both Hebrew and Aramaic.
14 Nov 08
As noted, both cries used a different slang than that of Jesus….why do you think it’s a different language than that spoken by Jesus? Historically, Jesus belonged to the middle east i.e. he was of Arabic origin so that language was his mother tongue. Secondly, the phrase meaning ‘why have you forsaken me’ is very natural to be spoken in such pain…someone like Jesus who is supposed to have been a messiah was expected to bear the pain and humiliation with a smile, but being human I think he was crying out to God for strength.
• United States
15 Nov 08
Where do you get the idea that Jesus was an Arab and spoke Arabic?? Do the Israelis today speak Arabic? NO they do not. Jesus was Hebrew, a Jew, and lived in a multilingual society and most Hebrews (Jews) there knew/spoke Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew. Both languages used in the Gospels were understood and spoken by the people living there. However, each gospel was written from a unique point of view, and to a particular group, such as Gentiles, Jews, etc. So that is probably the main reason two languages are used. Also, some people who actually heard what Jesus said thought that he was calling for Elijah. So that is an indication that Jesus probably actually spoke it in Hebrew, since in Hebrew, the word Eli could mean My God, or Elijah, which also could have been a reason for the one gospel to have it written in Aramaic.
14 Nov 08
Mainly again this is because of the Greek translation from aramaic toung, and you are incorrect. From the origanal greek the words are: Pari de ho ennotos hora anaboao ho Iesous phone Megas Lego, Eli(hebrew) Eli (hebrew), lama (Aranaic) sabachthani? Touto esti theos mou theos mou hina tis me egkataleipo. And literal translation with these words would be: Around now the ninth hour aloud he Jesus spoke exceedingly saying my God my God, why have you left me? (now it is translated into Greek) that is, God of me, God of me, for what am I deserted? So both in the Aramaic and the Greek (Sabachtani and egkataleipo) mean to be left alone or behind, forsaken or deserted. There can be some differences in the word sabachthani due to language variants among Semite peoples, but pigment is to stain and would be rendered "why have youy stained me?" as in the stain of sin, he took upon him our sins and our transgressions.
• New Zealand
14 Nov 08
You've raised a very good issue there because the Gospels in question are interesting in themselves. The "famed quote" is reputed to be pointing at Psalm 22:1. Matthew it is said, uses the Hebrew quote of what Jesus said, whereas Mark it seems uses a "slang version", or Aramaic. Both it seems are reflecting on the same verse, the question remains, are they translating to thier readers at the time? The problem is they both wrote thier gospels in Greek, where there a slight variations in the translations, and this causes more variants when translated to other languages. They were writing to thier "own" flock, so with dialect it can differ slightly, I know this to be true with my own language. Does that really question the authenticty of the Cruxifiction, I don't think so, we do have "biased" views of the incidents when it comes to the bible, but like any news report, what has been said will lose slight meaning when it is translated