Why are people so angry at Christianity?

@katran (590)
United States
November 14, 2008 2:07pm CST
I think people have a very unfair view of the Christian religion, and I cannot understand why this is. It seems like people are so eager to dig up all the dirty scandals on Christianity and ignore the fact that Christians do much more good than harm. They give away millions upon millions of dollars in aide, they send missionaries all over the world to give food, medicine, and clean water to people who have no access to it, they run hundreds of thousands of soup kitchens, schools, and shelters, and they clock millions of volunteer hours. How come every one ignores this and focuses on the VERY few and far-between bad things that some Christians do. Things that outrage the rest of the Christian community as much as they outrage everyone else. Also, why is it that other groups are given the benefit of the doubt, but Christianity is not? A group of Muslim extremists can blow up a building and take thousands of lives, but people say, "It's okay. They are mostly a peaceful religion." But one or two priests are caught in a scandal involving the molestation of boys and all of a sudden ALL Christians are evil. Or someone runs in to one pushy, obnoxious Christian and all of a sudden all Christians are pushy and obnoxious and look down on others. The truth is, Christians are people just like everyone else. There are bad people in the world, so there are also bad Christians, just like there are some bad Muslims, some bad Jews, some bad Atheists, some bad Agnostics. That does not mean you judge the entire religion based on the behavior of a few people. Religions should be judged on the MESSAGE behind them, not the people that follow it. Because people will ALWAYS be imperfect, no matter what religion they follow, or even if they follow no religion at all. Would you think it fair if I justified my reason for not being atheist by listing all the bad things atheists have done? Of course not! So please tell me...why does Christianity get viewed so much more harshly than anything else? John 15:19 - "If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you."
7 people like this
20 responses
• United States
15 Nov 08
My problem is the christians that can come down on everyone and tell them they are going to hell. I am not a christian at this point in my life, as I was in my past, but I have read the bible a few times in my life.I'm not a fan of big organized religions, due to the fact that they have been used only as means to control populations and destroy other peoples. I don't much care to take part in that. Therefore, I merely study religions for the hell of it, and don't care what hell or heaven i end up in, if any.
3 people like this
@katran (590)
• United States
15 Nov 08
If religions have been used as a means only to control populations and destroy other peoples, we are doing a pretty crappy job of using it to those ends. Obviously organized religion is not controlling the population of America since there seems to always be a nearly 50/50 split on all points of contention that are primarily religious. Obviously religion is only controlling HALF of America. I guess we messed that up. You don't have to participate in organized religion to have religious beliefs. People use the whole "organized religion is evil" argument as an excuse, I think. Organized ANYTHING causes problems, because when you get people into large groups, the collective IQ seems to lower a bunch. That is why I try to emphasize that people need to choose their religion based on the MESSAGE and the TEACHINGS and try to forget the fact that people are, invariably, dumb.
1 person likes this
@mommyboo (13198)
• United States
16 Nov 08
50/50 means there is no clear majority and you end deadlocked on many issues. This is why the religious aspect needs to be removed - it isn't something that 100% of people thinks is important, just 50%. It is not supposed to be a reason we make or enforce rules, laws, and social standards. You may disagree with me but it doesn't affect what you do in your own life. When it comes to a law or amendment, it does affect that other 50% that does not believe religiously, and that is not fair. The presence or absence of religion should not have a determining factor, and it seems the presence has - to slant things for everybody towards it. It is also true that people in large groups somehow have a collective IQ many times less than the average. Mob mentality I tell you. People stop being individuals and stop having their own thoughts and opinions on matters and begin to just agree with the group because they are part of a group. Very scary situation, almost like brainwashing. People use the 'threat' of hell as a way to try and convince people to believe in God - or their God. They use the threat that you are not a good person. This is so petty, to threaten people into agreeing with you. I realize it does work but it shouldn't.
@edujccz (929)
• Philippines
17 Nov 08
The words of Jesus was happenning, ' when you preach the Gospel in my name' you will be persecuted". this is the role of christianity.
2 people like this
• United States
29 Nov 08
That's just Jesus pointing out that he knows how ridiculous this stuff is even as he says it (he also is aware that heresy is a serious offense in the society in which he lives, another no-brainer), so by stating the obvious, it makes him look like he predicted the future...only if you're extremely gullible, though. Christians can't abandon this silly persecution complex fast enough. It's a downward spiral of self-righteousness--if they make their claims and people believe them, they feel like they're right. If they make their claims and people reject or ridicule them, they feel like they're right, because they've been indoctrinated to interpret opposition as a sign that they are justified, and that the 'opposers' are 'the bad guys' who are just trying to trick them, or whatever. In other words, the indoctrination is such that people are left in a position that NO MATTER how the claims are receieved, they are reinforced. Without any critical thinking, this is a dangerous mental state indeed.
@RMGray (16)
• United States
14 Nov 08
I believe that a lot of the animosity has to do with the general Christian persona. In my discussions with a variety of people, there seems to be a consensus that Christians present themselves as if they are perfect...as if their way is the only way. The overriding belief among non-Christians is that believers see the rest of the world as completely arbitrary in light of their personal religious beliefs. This is evident if you examine American puritanical history, where you will find Christians burning people because they believe they are witches, branding people with the letter 'A' to signify adultery and all sorts of manner of scorn and abuse, usually because a simple matter of faith was not shared. Carry that forward to today where we find self-proclaimed Christians shaking their rear-end at the club on Friday and Saturday night, but condemning and gossiping about others on Sunday. And finally, how about the Sunday and Saturday morning harassment perpetrated by some Christians in the name of proselytizing for the Lord. News Flash! Almost everyone in the world knows of Jesus and the Christian faith...either they affect it or they don't...leave people alone. I am a Christian, but I'm also an interfaith minister/counselor. These items I identify are collected from my experiences exclusively...your mileage may vary ;-). RM Gray http://www.GrowThyself.org
@katran (590)
• United States
14 Nov 08
A lot of Christians do present themselves like they are perfect, I agree. But a lot of atheists present themselves as if they are smarter. Arrogance and self-righteousness are not traits exclusive to Christians. That is why I think it is important to look at the message that Christianity puts forth and not judge it based on the people. I am sure if you look into any religion there are people who can be branded as hypocritical or judgmental. Because PEOPLE at large are hypocritical and judgmental. It does make me sad that many Christians do not put forth much effort in imitating Christ, and I know that I am guilty of this quite often too, but that is why Christianity is so amazing. Though I may slip and fall, as ALL humans do, I have the opportunity to pick myself up and try again.
2 people like this
@mommyboo (13198)
• United States
16 Nov 08
there seems to be a consensus that Christians present themselves as if they are perfect...as if their way is the only way. The overriding belief among non-Christians is that believers see the rest of the world as completely arbitrary in light of their personal religious beliefs. That is absolutely true and one of the reasons I end up in screaming typing matches with some of those very folks. I explain again and again that if I don't subscribe to 'their' truth, then it doesn't matter, but they rail back saying I have to accept their version anyway or they will find a way to force me to. No I don't, we are equal and exactly the same - except I don't think everybody needs to live like me. I do think people who disagree need to leave well enough alone, but then again, I am not the one witnessing and telling anybody they are bad. Everybody has their own 'right' path - newsflash, we are NOT all on the same path!!
@ClarusVisum (2163)
• United States
15 Nov 08
"Christians do much more good than harm." Looking objectively at Christianity's history, as far as I'm concerned, they haven't even broken even yet on the whole. I'd also respect the missionary work a lot more if indoctrination/conversion wasn't on the to-do list when Christians are sent to these third-world countries. Also, being an atheist, it's hard for me to take seriously a Christian complaining about being negatively stereotyped for his/her beliefs (or lack of them), when people like me have gotten it exponentially worse. Even today, it's socially acceptable to hate on atheists. In fact, there are still state laws on the books, unconstitutional though they may be, that say that you can't hold public office unless you acknowledge the existence of some god or another. (http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/StateConstitutions.htm ) And when was the last time atheists got together to lobby to put atheistic language on currency? Never, but Christians were more than happy to lobby to put "In God We Trust" on the currency of a secular nation, a nation that's supposed to be INCLUSIVE of EVERYONE, and not favor any religion over any other. So, frankly, cry me a river. You have no idea what non-Christians go through in this regard (hell, you talk about the molestation thing, which was a big scandal in the Catholic Church, but half the time, I hear Protestants claiming that Catholics aren't even "true" Christians to begin with!). I've been compared to Stalin and Pol Pot, even Hitler (who wasn't even an atheist, but is called one anyway for the sake of 'argument) more times than I can count, for no other reason than the person discovering that I wasn't a believer. P.S. Muslims are also negatively stereotyped to a FAR greater degree than Christians in this country, especially after 9/11. Your analogy on that point couldn't be more off-base. P.P.S. Please try to restrain yourself from responding to this by saying you'll pray for me. Few things could be more arrogant and condescending.
1 person likes this
@AnnaB7 (757)
• United States
15 Nov 08
Doing good does not make a Christian, but trusting in the complete and finished work of Christ is what makes someone a Christian, everyone who claims to be saved is not. Also you are right the United States is a secular nation, but it was founded by men of faith. And because of that America has been blessed by God, and God has been merciful to America. But sadly America has turned her back on God, which means that America will go through many hard trials soon, because any nation that turns their back on God is cast down. Unless America repents and turns back to God, we will live to see America fall. And it won't be because of false doctrines or muslims or perverts etc. It will be because those who are saved have turned to wickedness, only if those who are saved humble themselves and pray and repent from there sins will we see our land healed. It is not because of the lost that America will fall it is because the lost have no light to guide them because those who are saved have hiddedn their light. Instead accepting the things of this world as did Lot, and the cities were destroyed back in Lot's day because God could not find ten righteous, but if Lot had lived before his family as a man who feared God then there would of been a min of ten, and that would of been enough light that God would of kept judgment from those cities. Everyday America grows darker, but as America and this world grows darker heaven grows brighter, and last those who are saved are supposed to pray for the lost that they will get saved, if we do not do that, how can we say we have fully accepted Christ. So as condescending and arrogant as you may think me to be my prayer for you tonight is to come to a saving knowlege of Christ, that God will be merciful to you, and that God will allow someone to come into your life who will be able to fully and completely and clearly explain the gospel of Christ so that you may be saved so that you would not have to spend an eternity in hell. Hell's a bad place, and it has no end, Heavens a good place and it has no end, and hell's a place of flaming fire, where all those who reject Christ will find themselves one day. But for all those who find their way to heaven they will find a peace like no other peace and their will be joy and happiness in heaven.
1 person likes this
@katran (590)
• United States
15 Nov 08
According you to, it seems like every time someone says that they are right and someone else is wrong, they are being arrogant. Therefore, you are being arrogant right now. Therefore, you are also being a hypocrite. How can you call our beliefs garbage and then call US arrogant? How can you use the argument "Oh you think YOU have it bad?" and then call US arrogant? How can you say that Christians have done more harm than good without listing the harm the atheists of the world have done and then call US arrogant? How can you spit angry words at us, forbid us from telling you we will pray for you, and then call US arrogant? Religious debate has turned the word arrogant into a word with absolutely no meaning whatsoever. The nature of a belief is something that YOU will stand up for that other people may not agree with. Having beliefs and standing up for them and thinking that you are right does not make you arrogant, it makes you convicted. So, if you are calling us arrogant, you have to examine yourself as well.
1 person likes this
@mommyboo (13198)
• United States
16 Nov 08
I'd also respect the missionary work a lot more if indoctrination/conversion wasn't on the to-do list when Christians are sent to these third-world countries. *claps*. Obviously you get it, and this is how I feel regarding missionaries. If you want to help people, by all means, just HELP PEOPLE. Bring them food, water, clothing, help them learn how to make shelters and grow gardens. Don't make it about helping people and THEN proposing to tell them they have to accept your 'God', whomever that is. To me it isn't socially acceptable to hate an atheist OR an agnostic, like I said in another comment, I don't see atheists or agnostics beating down strangers' doors in the name of god. I don't see atheists or agnostics hating people who live different lifestyles. I don't see atheists or agnostics calling anybody a 'sinner' or trying to tell other people they should ALSO not believe in 'god'. BUT - all I see are religious people promoting their religion and calling anybody who doesn't agree 'sinners' or they try to say we are stupid or ignorant. I am not stupid nor ignorant because I don't want religion in my life, and for someone religious to think so is ABSOLUTELY arrogant and condescending. Great point.
1 person likes this
• United States
15 Nov 08
The previous responses all have essentially one thing in common: a religion that says that it is the one and only 'true' religion. It is human nature (and animalistic nature) to be on top - to be the top dog; i.e. the 'alpha male'. This sets other religions against christianity. (I know it's ultra-simplistic, but at its core it is the basis of the hatred) Secondly, another part of human nature is what most marketing people will tell you: if customer service is bad, you tell everyone; however if the customer service is good, you only tell a handful of people. (Again, simplistic, but part of that basis of the hatred).
@AnnaB7 (757)
• United States
15 Nov 08
The God of the Bible is a God of love, it is because he first loved us that we love him. And yes it is a simple message and the gospel is so simple that even a child can understand it. God loved us, and it is because he loved us enough to come and pay a price we could not that we have learned to love him. the Bible says "God is love"
1 person likes this
@AnnaB7 (757)
• United States
19 Nov 08
if you have made something with your own hand and designed that with your own hand then someone later says that many hands designed the item that orginated in your thought and mind and that you created with your own hand, would you consider that person to be misleading others when they say "many hands made the item that you alone had created?" This is the way it is with God there is one God, who is the creator, he has created and has even gave us the freedom of thought and choice, he does not force us to believe but he has told us that there is only one way to him, and that is through his son, he created the one way, man did not. It is the same as if you had designed something and someone else came along and decided to tell others that there were many hands used to design or make whatever it was that you had made. I think if you think about it you'll maybe at some point on some level see why it is those who believe in one God the God who created heaven and earth you will see how it is silly to try to take away from what God has already done, and change what he has said and done into nothing more than one of many paths.
• United States
15 Nov 08
I personally believe that those who don't like Christianity don't like it because the Bible teaches that there is a Heaven and a Hell and the only way Heaven is guaranteed is through acceptance of Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Lord and Savior. I believe they don't want this to be true. They want to live their lives as they please and die into nothingness or be reincarnated or everyone goes to Heaven no matter what. If you are a follower of Jesus Christ, you're suppose to following His teachings and examples and too many people are not willing to do that, believing it will ruin their fun or independence. They can't understand that there is true freedom in following Christ and that they are in bondage to the world. They don't like the prohibitions that go along with the faith and would rather live by the teachings of a fallen world. I do believe there are people who believe Jesus is the Son of God and have accepted Him as their Savior, but not their Lord. In that way they feel they can do unspeakable acts and get away with it (i.e. Crusades and the Inquisition). I believe their fooling themselves, but it's not for me to say who will or won't get to heaven. God makes more sense to me than evolution. His plan for the salvation of the world through His Son Jesus Christ makes sense to me and I'm thankful for it. I realize there are some who don't want to be converted, but I think Christians have a duty to share the good new, then it's up to the individual whether or not they accept it.
1 person likes this
• United States
17 Nov 08
So very true, 6precious! They want to "shut us up" because they are afraid we are right. They are afraid to believe that heaven and esp hell exists. They think that if they don't believe in it, it will go away. It doesn't matter if one believes God's Word or not. It will not change a thing! God will judge each of us according to His Word, the Bible, whether we choose to believe in His Truth or not. Praise God I am forgiven and have been adopted into the family of God!
• United States
17 Nov 08
I'll say amen to that!
1 person likes this
@bryanski (497)
• Philippines
15 Nov 08
Well, I don't think angry is the right term for this one. Or if maybe it is right, then only on a specific locale. Here in our country, Philippines, Christianity is still respected as a very good religion. There has been no major qualms about it here. I am myself a Catholic and honestly, not a good Catholic. Well, other people from some country may seem "angry" at Christianity but I guess they are just doing some inquiry on it. Maybe religion is replaced by philosophy. I respect your viewpoint and I understood that some people misunderstand Christianity. Islam is more misundertood than Christianity, I say. But all the more, let us just hear out what others have to criticize about our religion. Engage in a peaceful dialogue, not a debate. And don't be angry when people try to bring out the worse in Christianity. If the religion and its members have nothing to hide, then there's nothing to be guilty of when people start questioning its integrity, right? Have a great day!
1 person likes this
@katran (590)
• United States
15 Nov 08
It is good to hear the story of someone outside the US that is a Christian. I am glad to hear that Christianity is still a respected religion in your country and that you do not face much hatred for it. You are so right that we should not have to fear criticism! Christianity has survived this long under intense scrutiny, and it will survive even longer. Your words are very calming and uplifting, and I thank you so much for sharing your opinion. You have just made my day. :)
1 person likes this
@bryanski (497)
• Philippines
16 Nov 08
Well, glad to hear that one. And thank you too. Good luck with life!
1 person likes this
• Morocco
15 Nov 08
My advice: Be your religion. i mean that you are your own heaven if want, or your own hell. i'm religious but not christian, but i do know that the most peacefull peaople are christian, so what is in the bible does not influence. Most of my "best" friends are christian and not with the same religion as me.
1 person likes this
@AnnaB7 (757)
• United States
15 Nov 08
If someone reads and understands the Bible and reads it as a saved person then the Bible does have the power to influence. also if a lost person reads the Bible the Bible also does have the power to influence, The Bible has the power to change lives. It is a very powerful book, there is nothing more powerful, because it is the word of God. And God tells us in his word that his word will not return void.
1 person likes this
• Morocco
15 Nov 08
What i meant by "not influence" is the fact that it doens not make them bad people, no, but that make then good ones.
1 person likes this
@Averiex (83)
• United States
15 Nov 08
I'm not angry at Christianity. I'm angry at the people that take the religion out of context and make excuses for their hateful actions. Yes, they do good, but if God loves all his children, if he forgives all our sins -- then there is no reason to be down on homosexuals. Unfortunately, those "people" that are following the religion are giving off the WRONG message. Love everyone, EXCEPT... Help those, EXCEPT... The other reason Christianity gets harshly treated is because it has not evolved with the ideas of the modern people. Let's face it, a commitment is a commitment. You can call it whatever you want, but homosexuals are going to get married. It's alright for our civilization to marry, divorce, re-marry, divorce and TARNISH the idea of marriage, but you have two people of the samesex that genuinely adore each other and the idea is stomped on. That's why no one respects our (AND MY) religion. And I'm not a homosexual preaching, I have just have an open mindedness to the idea of evolving.
1 person likes this
@katran (590)
• United States
15 Nov 08
God loves all his children and he forgives all our sins IF we ASK forgiveness first. If you are a homosexual and you do not think that being homosexual is wrong, then you cannot ask forgiveness for it, and therefore God cannot forgive you for it. However, you are right. As Christians, we should love EVERYONE, even those that we think are wrong. We should not be hateful and judgmental, because it is up to God to judge in the end. And who says it is alright to marry, divorce, re-marry, etc? I think a lot of Christians are just as outraged about that. Divorce is only acceptable in the case of mental, emotional, or physical abuse, and that is that.
1 person likes this
@lvaldean (1612)
• United States
16 Nov 08
I could give you a host of reasons but I will try to keep it simple. 1. Most Christians don't read or understand the Book they hold sacred and therefore are constantly misquoting it. 2. Christianity has done a great deal of harm historically but most Christians will not own that harm instead constantly making excuses for it. 3. Most Christians refuse to accept other people as they are instead demanding they change to accomodate their personal belief systems or be excluded from participating in society as a whole. 4. Most Christians refuse to view history, even the short history of this nation, realistically and truthfully instead demanding that we believe untruths despite documented evidence to the contrary (such as we were were founded as a Christian nation - NOT). 5. Extreme right wing fundamentalists give all Christians a bad name. 6. Most Christians want to legislate their belief systems into law thus imposing themselves on me and my kin without my agreement or permission. No I don't think all Christians are evil. I think the schisms of the Church has created an atmosphere of competition and even ignorance. I think that most religion is that of man rather than faith and belief. I think that most people are lazy by nature and rather than read and study they go to church and listen to the doctrine of whatever church they happen to belong to. I don't think people are mad at individuals as much as they are made at the fundamentalist leaders who have frankly led many down a path that is more hate filled than love filled.
@katran (590)
• United States
17 Nov 08
1. You are right on that point. The Bible is a very large book and there is a lot of information in it that spans a long period of time. It is very easy to take things out of context, and a lot of uneducated people do so. In fact, even some educated people probably do so. However, if someone misquotes a physicist or a chemist or a biologist, that does not mean that the original message is wrong. That simply means that someone misquoted it. So, yes. People are dumb. I know this. I admit this. That is not Christianity's problem. 2. You are also right on this point. It is the nature of people to try to deny that they have done wrong. I will admit that some serious atrocities have been committed in the name of Christianity in the past. Atrocities have been committed in the name of all religions. Atrocities are also committed on a daily basis AGAINST Christians and other people of faith. There are some countries where you get shot (or worse) just for having a page out of the Bible. I am ashamed to say that most Christians in America would probably not be willing to risk as much for their religion as Christians in other countries do. Yes, Christians then and now are far from perfect, to say the very least. I do not know how to change the past though, so I do not know how to make this one better. Are we to pay for it forever? 3. A lot of Christians are quite judgmental. A lot of Christians do demand that people change. I personally only make apologies for the former point, not the latter one. I think what the world NEEDS is for people to change. The "do whatever you want, whatever makes you feel good" mentality makes me depressed, to say the least. I will not apologize for having high standards for humanity. I think we as people have responsibilities for one another, as is indicated by the fact that we have laws at all. 4. No, we were not founded as a Christian nation, but all the documents drawn up by the founders mention God. God does not have to be the Christian God, but God is definitely interwoven into our political system. John Adams, the most outspoken of the Founders against the atrocities of Christianity and a man who did not believe in the doctrine of damnation nevertheless is quoted as saying "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." Thomas Jefferson said are liberties are only secure when thought of as a gift from God. James Madison said America's future was dependent on the ability to follow the Ten Commandments. George Washington in his farewell address says "reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle." So, no. We were not meant to be a Christian nation, but it was the belief of the founders that our MORALITY as a nation is dependent on our religion. 5. Extreme right wing, extreme left wing....they are both nuts. People are dumb, as I said. Get over it. 6. I have news for you....where do you think our laws came from? Do you think "do not murder" is simply human nature? It's not. Otherwise there would be no cannibalistic cultures existing today. Do you think "do not steal" is human nature? Nope. If you are hungry, you'll steal. Does that mean it is right? A country whose laws are not based on religious principles might say that it is. Our country says it's wrong. Why? Self-preservation? Of whom? Certainly not the person stealing to survive. Why is it illegal to marry your brother? That is DEFINITELY not human nature, because it is ENCOURAGED in some countries. Our system of morality is based on religion, whether you like it or not. The different sects within the church do not really compete with each other anymore. At least not in my experience. (Yes, some Baptists still think they are the best, but the rest of us mostly just shake our heads at them. ;P) I don't think that Christianity is as hate-filled as you think. It is only that those are the ones you remember. I bet you run in to nice people every day, multiple times a day, who are Christian but you never notice, because it is only the obnoxious ones who run their mouths...which is something that is true of humans in general.
@lvaldean (1612)
• United States
17 Nov 08
The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind ... to filch wealth and power to themselves. [They], in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ. -Thomas Jefferson Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind. -Thomas Paine Of all the animosities, which have existed among mankind, those which are caused by difference of sentiments in religion appear to be the most inveterate and distressing, and ought most to be deprecated. I was in hopes that the enlightened and liberal policy, which has marked the present age, would at least have reconciled Christians of every denomination so far that we should never again see the religious disputes carried to such a pitch as to endanger the peace of society. - George Washington, letter to Edward Newenham, October 20, 1792; When a Religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its Professors are obliged to call for help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one. - Benjamin Franklin from a letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780 During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. - James Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785.) Just a few of my favorite quotes by some of the founding fathers regarding Christianity. I will respond to the rest in a second post.
@lvaldean (1612)
• United States
17 Nov 08
This is the second set of quotes specifically in response to # 4. I thought it was important to provide counters to your quotes as it ensures a complete picture. “The government of the United States is not in any sense founded upon the Christian religion” John Adams "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it” John Adams (this one is also attributed to George Washington, however it is believed that it is John Adams that originally made it) "On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind.” Thomas Jefferson "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God.” Thomas Jefferson "In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.” Thomas Jefferson "In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people.” James Madison "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries.” James Madison "Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history” James Madison
@mommyboo (13198)
• United States
16 Nov 08
I was raised with religion and now I don't find anything really of value to take from it. Yes, I have heard the 'God loves you and God loves everybody' deal. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Love your neighbor, respect your parents, don't steal, lie, commit murder. The problem with a lot of christians (as well as religious people from other venues) is that they are hypocritical. They judge others for things yet they condone it when THEY or other people who believe as they do do the same things. For instance - they get up in arms about someone having an abortion, so they go rally at a clinic and trample or hurt people. Then they say - well at least she didn't kill a baby. They go to other rallies in support of their cause and when they encounter people who disagree, they peck at and harrass and provoke them and guess who gets the blame? The other group when they finally get fed up. These are just some examples, as these happen countless times. I don't even take the scandals into account when I think about why I choose to avoid religion. I don't like being judged by someone I don't know because I want to drink coffee (some people cannot), wear shorts (some people cannot), or support gay marriage (many religious people don't and won't). I don't like how so many of them think because they believe in the value of their religion and teachings that everybody should and everybody should therefore act accordingly and also not drink coffee, wear shorts, or allow a gay couple to get married. See where I'm going with this? It's hypocritical. Your truth is your truth. Not THE truth. Not all christians are this way, but enough of them are to discount the ones who are good examples. Good examples are not pushy, they don't knock on your door, shove a pamphlet in your purse, or tell your kid there is no easter bunny. Good examples don't even come here to mylot and argue and spout bible passages, but you know there is a pretty sizeable group here that does that very thing, and they are the reason most people are sick of them. If your message is that you are happy and saved and loved, great, but beyond that, just stop. While you are right that many good things have been done, many things are also taught, which include certain attitudes towards other people. If your religion teaches you to love ALL others equally and not have an issue with what anybody else does since you are ultimately only in control of yourself, then you're one of the good ones. If your religion teaches you that you are better than others based on your actions or because God said so, and you do have an issue with other people's choices and want to grapple and argue and control what they do, then I am sorry, that is the gist of why religion is turning into a cesspool. It is hard not to blame the whole thing on the loudest and most obnoxious members. I don't necessarily believe everybody needs to love each other either or even agree. We simply need to let everybody be free to do as they wish though. Let non-religious laws be the ending point, not what someone's god says.
@katran (590)
• United States
17 Nov 08
I don't think it is a good argument to say you don't want to be involved in religion because they tell you what to do. That sounds immature. "I want to do whatever I want and not have anyone tell me what is right and wrong." You are GOING to get told what is right and wrong all of your life from when you are born until when you die. Maybe you are threatened by right and wrong when it is labeled as religion, but I hate to tell you that some of that religious dogma has already found it's way into your mind. A lot of our laws are based on religious principles, probably more of them than you would even expect. By the way, Christianity does not teach ANYONE that they are better than others, and if anyone says so, they should be completely ignored. God loves everyone equally. It is just that not everyone loves God. Have you ever tried to love and forgive someone who hates you? Doesn't work very well, does it? I cannot believe how people insist and insist over and over again, "God doesn't love me because he won't accept me for who I am." No, it is YOU who do not accept God for who HE is. People say "I don't like it that God tells me to do this, this, and this. That's mean of him. I want to do what I want." In which case God can do nothing but let you run off and do what you want. He still loves you. He still wants you to love him. But HE waits for YOU. It is up to YOU to choose to love him back and accept his message. So, basically, God has the ultimate "Live and let live attitude." Do whatever you want. That doesn't make God stop loving you! It just makes him unable to reach you because you are ignoring him. Many Christians just want to try to help people stop ignoring him. Some go about it in an entirely obnoxious fashion. Or maybe it is all obnoxious to you. But it is a matter of opinion. To you it is annoying and you want them to quit, to them it is an act of compassion and it is against their morals to quit. Neither of you can prove you are right. So...it seems the only solution is learning to live with it.
@Ravenladyj (22936)
• United States
17 Nov 08
God loves everyone equally. your god does NOT love everyone equally...
• United States
17 Nov 08
Oh yes He does! He loves you very much even when you rebel against Him. He's still there. You cannot run from Him!
@Ravenladyj (22936)
• United States
15 Nov 08
It seems like people are so eager to dig up all the dirty scandals on Christianity and ignore the fact that Christians do much more good than harm. Truth be told thats not different to ppl doing that to religions and paths like Paganism, Vodou, Satanism even Buddhism and of course pretty much every other religion out there... one or two priests are caught in a scandal involving the molestation of boys and all of a sudden ALL Christians are evil. "one or two"..ONE OR TWO??? sorry but it was WAY more than that and the cold hard truth is the church HID IT FOR YRS...does that make ALL Christians evil? Of course not but occurances like that certainly dont help boost their rep by any means... I think you misunderstand ppl....of course i can only speak for myself even though numerous ppl I know and have talked to over the yrs agree and feel the same as I do...Its NOT CHRISTIANITY that disgusts me or rubs me the wrong way..its the fundementalist, narrowminded, opinionated, loud mouthed Christians that make me ill...is that the whole of the Christian population? Of course not..and I dont have issues with the whole Christian population...not even close..Sadly though its those fundementalist, narrowminded, opinionated, loud mouthed Christians that are heard above the rest and intentionally make the presence known and do everything they can to be noticed before the true, decent Christians so of course ppl will react to them first..
@katran (590)
• United States
15 Nov 08
Why can't you just say it is fundamentalist, narrow-minded, opinionated, loud-mouthed PEOPLE that bother you? Why do you have to say Christians? Have you never met someone who was all those things who was not a Christian? This is the point I am trying to think. Think about this....what if I said I hated fundamentalist, narrow-minded, opinionated, loud-mouthed black people. You would say, "HEY, THAT'S RACIST AND YOU'RE A JERK." Why? Because I just implied that black people have a monopoly on all those negative traits. What does being a Christian really have to do with being opinionated or narrow-minded? I have met some pretty darn opinionated atheists in my life.
2 people like this
@katran (590)
• United States
15 Nov 08
By the way, I may just be ignorant (and it is very likely that I am), but I have never seen a Pagan or Satanist relief organization, charity, or missionary team. I don't know if those religions necessarily are HARMFUL to the world at large, but I don't really seem them being helpful either.
2 people like this
@Ravenladyj (22936)
• United States
15 Nov 08
Why can't you just say it is fundamentalist, narrow-minded, opinionated, loud-mouthed PEOPLE that bother you? Why do you have to say Christians? LOL they DO...BUT this thread is about CHRISTIANITY therefore saying CHRISTIANS is appropriate.. As for Pagan or Satanist orgs etc...I can't say about Satanists BUT Pagans are VERY MUCH involved in bettering the world, society etc etc...chances are you've never come across any because #1 you don't care to and #2 you havent looked...
@kholid78 (341)
• Indonesia
15 Nov 08
There's no reason to angry. Your religion is for you, my religion is for me and his religion is for him. Bad act of people is not produced by religion. Its produced by a sick of soul and/or a poor of mind on certain people
@katran (590)
• United States
15 Nov 08
You are absolutely right. Religion does not make people bad. People are bad to begin with, but when they are bad within the context of a religion, people blame it on that religion. It makes little sense to me.
@mommyboo (13198)
• United States
16 Nov 08
Katran - it is because people do BAD things and then TELL OTHERS that they are CHRISTIAN! Then they go and say 'God wants me to stop sin' or some such nonsense. It's like taking the law into their own hands or something. Things are blamed on religion because people are doing horrible things in the name of the religion they claim. That is why people ultimately blame religions.
@GLOBALSHEEN (1005)
• India
24 Dec 08
The reason why people are angry with christians is because they are very tolerant. People know that Christians wont hit back. They forgive and forget the mistakes of others.Bible asks them to do so. Because of that many think it is safe to attack Christians and become heros in an easy way. And another reason is they find it easy to spread all sorts of false stories about Christians. In India thats why some uncivilized politicians make open statements about Christians. It is not possible in the case of other religions. No body will have the boldness to talk about other religions like that.
@GLOBALSHEEN (1005)
• India
19 Nov 08
There two spiritual forces. One is of GOD's.And the other is of Satan. Good belong to GOD and the evil is from the Devil. Both are opposit. Christianity is speaking about GOD. All that belong to and has the influence of evil doesnot like people getting close to GOD. This is the answer for your question.
@sid556 (30997)
• United States
16 Nov 08
It is not the religion at all. Of course, there are many wonderful christian people. I think the problem with far too many of them is the judgementalism of others when it comes to issues like gay rights & abortion. It isn't just the Christian religion here but also other religions.
• United States
16 Nov 08
My best guess is that for many years if you weren't a Christian, then you were deemed less of a citizen or even a person.Good Christians would never, ever make a non Christian feel inrerior. The problem is that not All Christians are that good. For too many years in the past, you Had to Christian to join certain clubs.So I guess there is still resentment out there.I am only guessing. I am not Chriatin and yet I never felt like a second class citizen. I do feel sorry for those Christians that try to convert every non Christian they meet.But I would never bad mouth anyone's religion.
@goodkat (63)
• Romania
15 Nov 08
Hi... I guess there is no simple answer to your question(s). Religions are what they are, as the result of some people's action of setting up a religion. Following them is just a matter of option. Unfortunately, I am a Christian myself, and ashamed of it. Mostly, I believe Christians don't have a tradition for being honest. All they do is for facade, not because they believe in what they do. I think Christians are the filthiest. They try to show mercy, forgiveness and charity to people that they don't care about, just for maintaining a good image to Christianity. Muslims, on the other hand, believe in what they do. They are faithful and true to their beliefs, and some of them sacrifice themselves for those. At least nowadays, there is no Christian that would sacrifice himself in the name of Christianity. Most Muslims are poor, they don't afford running soups and other things you mentioned in your message. They help each other at the best they can, and they somewhat contribute to a natural selection, where everybody gets only the chance that they deserve. Artificially sustaining the life of people who don't really do much for the world is unfair to the others, the ones that contribute to the world development. I'm not saying that life itself isn't valuable, but there is a scale of values that should not be forgotten. Some child in Africa is not, rationally speaking, more deserving than a child in Germany, nor is he more likely to bring a contribution to the world. Most probably, he will spend all his life hunting animals and drinking the water of UNICEF, for the sole reason that he exists as a human being. But he will not work in a laboratory, university or art museum. Instead of supporting a child that is bound to not do anything special with his life, I'd rather support one that proves a talent and is materially limited from manifesting it.
• India
15 Nov 08
let me put it in a simple way rather than going into a long paragraph. a small story which many can sit back and laugh at. The story: Con had returned to his native town after many years abroad. "I hope," said his parish priest, "that you have been loyal to your faith while you have been away." "Indeed, father, I have. I lied, I fought, I cursed, I robbed, and I had women, but not for one moment did I forget the religion I was brought up in!" Angry or not, its the basic christian attitude that is bad. That is how each christian is brought up. if you can understand from the above, i think you should send it all the way to vatican too.
@Zezloler (497)
• United Arab Emirates
15 Nov 08
I know where you're coming from. They are driven by the overbroadcasted (I don't think that's a word, but you probably know what I mean so I'll just use it anyway *Shrugs*) media coverage of extremists that are going way too far and going away from what religion really should be. I find it really sad that people tend ot focus on the negative rather than on the positive. No one really stops to consider what good it has done in the world, only the bad. =/ If it's true what you say (I don't really follow the news =P), then I see no reason why Christianity should be treated any differently than other religions. It's true what you said - that people are imperfect - but unfortunately, there will always be a group of people that are looked upon more harshly for reasons we can't really tell. Just as Christianity can be extreme, so can others. I know this girl, an atheist, that slapped her mum once she told her to go to church. -.-' I really don't know why Christianity is judged like this. A huge part of being correct is respecting others' religion and being tolerant, but sadly, most people today forget this. By the way, I like your quote. =P