Red pens are too aggressive ...

@guybrush (4658)
Australia
December 2, 2008 8:41pm CST
I've just read an article whereby teachers (in Queensland, Australia) are being told not to use red pens anymore in marking students' work ... because it's too aggressive! What next? Sometimes I think it must be April Fool's day - either that or the do-gooders have been let out of the asylum too early this year. The way I see it, red pens make it easy for students (and their parents) to see exactly what needs attention - it would be far more difficult to trawl through homework or assignments trying to search out comments in the same coloured pen as the student had used - and I'm a bit over this business of students not being graded because 'their feelings might be hurt'. When I was at school (in prehistoric days, admittedly), the end of year report would tell you very clearly you were, for instance, coming 4th out of 25 students. Therefore, you had an incentive to do better next year and your parents had a guide as to how you were going. We never looked on it as being 'hurtful' or 'mentally damaging' - it was just a fact of life. Isn't it about time this 'dumbing down' of student assessment stopped, and we got back to providing a decent, basic education without all the wank and ceremony? http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24745009-5001028,00.html
6 people like this
27 responses
@oldboy46 (2129)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
If this wasn't so pathetic it would be laughable. Sometimes I wonder about the people who dream up these suggestions and wonder how long they have sopendin fairyland that particular day. How on earth are the students and parents to see how they did in that particular class or subject. At least red stands out and mistakes are seen instead of being overlooked when checking the school books. This particular edict reminds me very much of one related to us by friends. They lived in a very small town in country New South Wales (Australia) and considered they were lucky it had a school. Their children used to go to the local school which was in fact in walking distance of the home. This was a very small one-teacher school as well. Every day the parents would ask their oldest who was in the second grade about homework and her school books and the answer was always the same. "Mrs XYZ does not give us homework and said we do not take our books home." After a couple of weeks of this, the parents send a note to the school saying they wanted to see the teacher. No response from the teacher even when they used to visit the school, she was too busy to talk to them. One day the mother went to pick up the children and told them to bring their school books home, which they did. The parents were horrified at the standard of the work and the fact that mistakes could not be corrected. When they spoke to the teacher, the parents were informed that correcting mistakes was demeaning and demoralising for young children who would end up with no self esteem. Over the following couple of weeks they chased up everyone in the education system, going right to the top of the chain so to speak. Basically that was the answer they got from everyone. So the parents moved their children to a private school in the nearest town which is some 80km away. Initially they drove them to and from school every day but then rented a house in the town and the mother got a job duringschool hous to cover the additional costs. As the parents were involved in agriculture, the entire family could not move into the town. I digress though. Our friends sent the education department saying they wanted their children to be educated to a standard that would allow them to live, work and support themselves in society and not "children with a high self esteem who know dog dung." Some bureaucrat from the education department replies saying "it is the parents choice where children go to school but the State SChool system has an excellent educational standard". Banning the use of red pens brings to my mind, the same thing as not correcting incorrect work in students bioug htto my friends.
4 people like this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
Yes, I have heard of this happening, oldboy! My husband is a high school teacher in New South Wales, and some of the ridiculous things which have now been implemented into the system would indeed be laughable if they weren't so mind-bogglingly scary. I'm very glad my children are all out of the system now, and even when the last two were finishing up in primary school it was impossible to make sense of the report cards because they just had 'outcomes' ticked in a wishy-washy manner. You could see whether your child could count to 100 - but not whether the rest of the class could! There was no means of comparison, therefore you were at a loss to see whether the child was keeping up with his/her peers. It would be terrific if the Education Department could put things right and go back to actually having some discipline and guidelines. Unfortunately, there are too many do-gooders and counsellors in the world now - and we wouldn't want to upset anyone!
2 people like this
@sconibear (8016)
• United States
3 Dec 08
kind of reminds me of being back in school, and we were always told to get out our notebooks and a "NUMBER 2" pencil. i mean, i wonder what would have REALLY happened if we would have used a number 3 or a number 1 and a half pencil.
4 people like this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
We never would have dared be so rebellious, Sconi, would we? In those days there were guidelines for behaviour in schools, and we didn't challenge them. If you mucked up, you were punished and copped it sweet. Never mind about your feelings being hurt - your bottom was hurt, too!
2 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45681)
3 Dec 08
I was afraid that this would happen with the collapse of the former Communist Empire Guy. Deep in capitalist centres all over the world special shipments of red pens have been waiting, in some cases for many years, to start their campaign of terror. Like most bullies they will start on the most vulnerable. Children innocently going about their school work will be targetted and terrorised. Their teachers innocent, but impotent pawns in the insidious march against the spread of the blue that has characterised childish scrawl across the decades since WW2. The red forces, just individual spots of colour, will increase on exercise books until at last, cowed and beaten into submission, the children will start to see things from a different perspective. "Did you answer the question", "Are you sure that 5/10 is 25?", "See me after class". All the classic opening gambits of a rise against free thought, and a forceful reinforcing that collectivism in the playground is the sublime end state sought from the school years. Is this what we want for our children? So let's drive out the red and celebrate the blue or the black, the indigo and green. For they shall inherit the earth and learn bugger all as they do it! (Would I make it as a Queensland legislator?)
3 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45681)
3 Dec 08
Now I make a rather nifty three cheese and tomato flan with puff pastry. That should see me elected don't you think? LOL.
1 person likes this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
BWAAHAHAHA - P1kef1sh for Queensland Premier! You'd actually do really well - we've had some very strange Premiers indeed in Queensland, including one whose claim to fame was that his wife made pumpkin scones! You're probably right about the Reds under the Bed. Can't trust biros, markers, OR felt tips these days ...
1 person likes this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
I've seen photographic evidence of that, P1ke ... and I would say it beats the pumpkin scones into a cocked hat! So - come on down, El Premiero! Your apathetic subjects await you!
• India
3 Dec 08
Really a good decision for school going student. Hopefully it will help the school going students. As concerned to me, I used to hate those Red marks on my homework book, and answer books. It really hurts when u see "X" on your answer sheet. This sheets contains what u have learned and it also used some hard work, u couldn't write just any thing without thinking. Thinking should be developed in the schools, As we see on mylot, If someone dont know any thing about any topic, then too people used to write atleast 5-10 lines. And Mylot too dont disappoint these people, Mylot pays them too even it is out of subject. What can i say about "RED", Red is the color to say "Stop". It shows danger. I think if you avoid the red pens in the schools, and children see their paper without any red mark, just see the happiness on their faces. Even if any one gets the average marks, He still have confidence to achieve more. This "RED X" mark directly attacks on your "Self Confidence". I am from India, I dont think that, this rule will be applied here in 10 more years. Any ways, thanks for the article writers....
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
4 Dec 08
The red is also used for happy comments ... I suppose we just got used to it, because teachers in Australia have always used red. It's easy to see, and students can quickly scan through and check their work. I don't think teachers purposely want to be mean and horrible, but they do want the students to notice their mistakes, and read the teacher's comments so they can improve. I suppose it does hurt to see X on your work, but the answer would still be wrong, even if the teacher used a green or pink pen.
1 person likes this
@Cerego (117)
• United States
3 Dec 08
That's crazy! What in the world? Who cares what color ink is used, as long as it can be seen clearly and its not the same color as the students'? I hear the craziest things as life goes on...
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
It's baffling, isn't it? Almost as if there is a panel of people out there, making up stupid little rules and regulations to frustrate the rest of us. Being politically correct is so hard these days it would be easier to put one's head into a paper bag!
2 people like this
@lumenmom (1986)
• United States
3 Dec 08
When I was young my grandmother told me to never write a letter in red or use red pen when filling out forms. She said the red meant that you were angry. Of course when we were graded they used red pens (and red markers) but I was so use to it I did not think of it as offensive. Thinking more about it now that I am older, I was a good academic student and loved the challenge of getting good grades. I was not straight A, but I certainly had the potential to be. School work came easy to me. But there are students who struggle through school and have to work so much harder to get the information. I imagine that being compared to other students can have a negative effect on their psyche. The red pen certainly brings attention to the mess ups. I think it may not be a bad idea to stop using them. Schooling tends to be a competition of who is better than who when in actuality it should be a journey where everyone learns at the pace that's good for them. My daughter currently goes to a school where she gets no grades and she has such a love of learning and exploring because no one is rating her.
3 people like this
• United States
3 Dec 08
yeah , same here with writing in red pens and such. however i always use my red pen for xmas cards . to me red is the perfect color , ya know and i am so used to seeing papers in red from teachers like the grades , and well just notes. my teachers used red for good and bad, but i see what ya mean with it stands out , and could make ya feel shy.
2 people like this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
I agree, I also always thought of red as a 'rude' colour to use for normal writing, and it was accepted our work would be marked in red, as it was a teacher's colour. It was an excellent feeling to see a big A at the top of your paper, in red with a circle around it! It wasn't very good to see a D ... but at least you knew you needed to put in some work in order to do better in future. I also agree school is a journey - but a bit of healthy competition is a good thing, and gives us goals to strive for. Also, in the big, wide world there will inevitably be competition - when trying for promotion in jobs, etc., and it's a good thing to be prepared for life's disappointments.
1 person likes this
@ronaldinu (12422)
• Malta
3 Dec 08
I had a teacher who used green ink instead of red for this particular reason that you mention. I do consider red as a shocking colour and a colour that attracts your attention. I don't believe that the colour will inflict low self esteem on students. i think that a good teacher can encourage his students to accept correction and not to repeat it another time, no matter in what colour you write whether violet black or red,
2 people like this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
A good teacher is indeed the most important thing - and I think a good student is happy to see where he's gone wrong and improve his work, no matter what coloured pen is used.
@James72 (26790)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
Really? Maybe they should remove the use of pens altogether and embrace aromatherapy and whale sound music only? It is certainly a bizarre directive to be issued and yes, it will be very interesting to see what the heck they decide to come up with next! Educationg youth is a big enough challenge as it is without all this airy fairy crap in parallel.
2 people like this
@James72 (26790)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
I am 36 years old and am constantly amazed how much schooling practices have changed even since I was educated. If I played up too much, I was caned for example and I turned out just fine! A Teacher could give you a hug when you were sad as well. There is too much emphasis on "nurturing" these days, but it is nurturing with human elements practically removed in entirety. 20 years from now kids will hook themselves up to friggin' 3-D projection glasses or similar and there won't be marks or anything at all for fear of institutions getting sued for causing stress disorders or something! It's all quite silly really.
2 people like this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
Things have certainly changed. My husband started teaching in 1975 - back in the days when the cane was still a threat and most reasonable kids were scared enough of authority to behave themselves. Now, there's even 'medication time' at schools, so the kids with ADD, ADHD and other behavioural problems can pop down to the office for their pills at appropriate times. That was unheard of when I was at school - so what's going wrong? It's all very bizarre.
2 people like this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
Hahahaa - you've probably REALLY done it now, James! Some of those PC types will have seen your suggestion about the whale music and aromatherapy and it'll be implemented into Australian schools by next week! I wouldn't be one bit surprised, as it appears saying anything even slightly negative to the little darlings will probably be a punishable offence before long. Who'd be a teacher?
2 people like this
@cher913 (25782)
• Canada
3 Dec 08
oh, i believe this! we have several friends who are teachers (both male and female teachers) and here in ontario (canada) they are not allowed to fail students because it will damage their psyche! i guess it was inevitable that the red pen follow suit! crazy! i agree with you!
2 people like this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
Incredible, isn't it? Personally, I'd rather have my psyche damaged so I'd learn to cope with life's inevitable disappointments.
@ellie333 (21016)
3 Dec 08
Hi Guybrush, Oh this is ridiculous, whatever next I agree. I thought, like you, that the whole idea of marking in red was to highlight mistakes so they could be learnt from and corrected for another time. If we stopped pampering and molly coddling the kids of today perhaps the next generation may have a chance at being respectful and law abiding but these days there are no deterrents at all, can't even mark their homework in red in case we hurt their feelings, it is no wonder they think they can get away with murder literally in some cases, grrr. Huggles. Ellie :D
2 people like this
@ellie333 (21016)
3 Dec 08
Remind a 7 year old but a 17 year old no way and the parents wonder why these kids can't think for themselves and survive in the real world. Huggles. Ellie :D
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
Hi Ellie - I remember a few years ago my husband failed a student and gave him a zero for his assignment - which hadn't been handed in. The lad's parents turned up at the school, very angry, to ask my husband why their son had gained no marks at all. My husband told him the lad hadn't bothered doing the assignment - to which the parents said, 'Why didn't you remind him?' WHA? Remind him? The student was 17 years old - where's the responsibility? It's laughable!
2 people like this
@di1159 (1580)
• United States
3 Dec 08
I am also from the prehistoric school days and agree with you. The red makes it easier to hone in on items that need attention. I don't know who came up with that one, but it's obvious that whoever came up with that conclusion has way to much time on their hands!
2 people like this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
FAR too much time on their hands, di. If only their misplaced energy could be channelled into something useful, the world would be a far better place!
• United States
3 Dec 08
This is nothing new, happened in my school in Middle School also. They handed out purple pens to teachers and for a time some of them graded using them, or green pens, or blue pens. Didn't really matter to me, I still knew the difference between an A and an F and felt crappy about the second one no matter the color it was written in.
2 people like this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
You are so right, TPG. A rose by any other name. Glossing over something doesn't change anything - it is what it is.
@metschica25 (5399)
• United States
3 Dec 08
Hey hey ! A red pen should be the least of everyones worries ya know . Gosh , its just a color and I am so used to having techers use that .What next makes me wonder . I am not giving up writing up my christams cards in red or green take cares
2 people like this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
Good for you, metschica - enjoy your red and green pens! Coloured pens show personality and are cheerful ... especially at Christmas!
@relundad (2310)
• United States
3 Dec 08
Unbelievable! But it doesn't surprise me. Seems more frequently I am scratching my head thinking what will they come up with next. Its like somebody is have a contest to see who can come up with the stupidest arguement. I wonder how long it will take someone to figure out that unless we can figure out a teaching system that teaches our children to think and analyze rather than memorize information it wont matter what color ink the teacher uses.
2 people like this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
Very true! Why fix what isn't broken? There seems to be a lot of time and money wasted on ridiculous committees coming up with ridiculous things.
@Aussies2007 (5336)
• Australia
5 Dec 08
This sort of non-sense has been going on for the last 20 years. Many teachers have left the profession because they are terrify to be sue for doing their job. I am looking forward to the day when it is not politically correct to send your children to school because it interfere with their civil liberties. On one hand you have a law preventing children from being educated. On the other hand... you have a law throwing children in detention centres because they broke the law due to their lack of education. The more laws we have... the worse it gets. lol
1 person likes this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
5 Dec 08
You are so right, Aussie. My husband has been teaching for 33 years - he's glad to be nearing retirement because the system has gone mad. It makes you worry about the next generation.
@MsTickle (25180)
• Australia
8 Dec 08
How embarrassing. That makes me ashamed to be an Aussie. What a pathetic bloody joke. Why do kids go to school?.....they go to learn...and learn about life, not just the 3 r's...though they don't seem to be learning a whole lot. If hurting their feelings through the use of a red correction pen is a problem then I'm surprised they have to attend school at all. And actually having to do any work must be perilous. God help the poor darlings. Scuse me...think I'm gonna be sick.
1 person likes this
@MsTickle (25180)
• Australia
8 Dec 08
It's times like this that I remember the children of today will be running this country when I am elderly. Oh dear.
@MsTickle (25180)
• Australia
8 Dec 08
As I read through the responses here the memories come floating back....my own exercise books or tests with ticks and crosses in red and a score at the top. Later it was phrases underlined, a spelling correction and the occasional question mark. There were comments too...the ones I remember were "Well done." "Good work" and "Excellent" and the scores again....either a percentage or A+ A- etc. I have no recollection of the hostile destructive environment these red markings emanated from....perhaps I have false memory syndrome???
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
8 Dec 08
I'll join you at the vomit bucket. These 'experts' don't seem to realise they are doing far more harm in not allowing children to experience all life's ups and downs. It's like bringing up children in a sterile environment without any germs - they can't build up immunity, and the first virus will knock them over. Same goes for disappointments and failures. Rising above them makes us what we are and gives us a coping mechanism. The strongest and most capable people have usually gone through hardship. Nothing is gained by wrapping children in cotton wool.
1 person likes this
@alindahaw (1219)
• Philippines
4 Dec 08
I personally do not like it when teachers use red pen to mark the papers of their students. My mother is a retired school supervisor and she is against marking student's papers with red ink because children tend to associate red markings with failures. Red markings on the paper are also very prominent that it is easy for the student's seatmates to see how badly he or she fared in the exam. I think it is a good idea for schools to refrain from using red pens to mark the papers of students.
1 person likes this
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
4 Dec 08
Quite a few people seem to agree with you on this, alindahaw. I must confess it had never crossed my mind before reading this article. I was astounded!
@violeta_va (4831)
• Australia
3 Dec 08
oh for Gods sake what next. Yeah I am sure we are all scared for life because our teachers used red pen to mark our work. So what now they have to use silver and gold pens I supose. Should those people that are deciding this things be working on something more useful like how far behind our school system is and that half the kids dont know how to read when the finish school. Or they will stop telling the kids how bad they are doing or they will get depresion or something. They are saying things like its ok for kids to use sms kind of writhing but think teachers writhing in red is the bigest problem????
2 people like this
• United States
4 Dec 08
Hi, Guybrush! It's been a while! Many years ago, a girl came to me crying after class one day. She said she's tried really hard on an assignment, and I disliked it so muchh I made her work bleed. I never used red again! It just began to feel creepy. Now I do the grading in purple or green. I still often write more than the kids do, but they take it OK. Classes are too big for much other individualizing than that.
1 person likes this
• United States
5 Dec 08
One of the kids gave me an early hliday gift today. It was a box of purple pens, because she likes it best when I use that forcorrecting her work. I treasure them, since most kids just put their graded work in their folders without even looking at it!
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
4 Dec 08
It WOULD make you feel awful that the little girl cried. I'm a proofreader, and I confess to loving my red pen - so I hope they're not banished from the face of the earth! I'd never associated red pen markings with blood before (probably won't be able to get it out of my mind now), and when I was at school I rather enjoyed seeing the bold, red corrections - and not all the comments were negative. It seems quite a few people agree the red is aggressive or threatening - I never would have thought it!
2 people like this
@GreenMoo (11834)
7 Dec 08
Couldn't agree with you more. I've heard this rubbish about red ink previously, and really do think it's a load of bunkum. Really, you'd think that educators would have better things to think about when considering how to best serve our children. The reason teachers have traditionally used red for marking is so that it stands out and is easy to see. Students are unlikely to use red, so it's not likely to get confused. Positive comments are written in red as well as corrections, so I really don't understand the logic behind this.
1 person likes this
@GreenMoo (11834)
19 Dec 08
Thankyou! I'm still about, just not often any more. I've been told I can't get internet at my new place but I'm not taking no for an answer and am determined to sort something out!
@guybrush (4658)
• Australia
8 Dec 08
Lovely to see you back, GreenMoo! The sad thing is, all the teachers I've spoken to think it's ridiculous! This idiocy comes from 'above' because of the bleeding hearts who are worried about the hurt feelings and possible emotional damage to the students. I really feel sorry for these kids when they're spat out into the hard, cruel world after being protected from any kind of disappointment or hiccup. They'll crumple in a heap.
1 person likes this