abnormal behaviour
behaviour
boys
bull frogs
children
children
cruelty to creatures
friends
had children
parenting
That is not normal childhood behaviour
By cynthiann
@cynthiann (18602)
Jamaica
February 22, 2009 12:08pm CST
I said. A GF gave me a drive home from work last night. My son (yes, the one who came home sitting on a coffin) was giving the eulogy at a funeral and borrowed my car. This GF is an expatriate like myself but not from the U.K. She had married a man 25 years younger and they are now divorced. She has an adopted son who is now on mega doses of Ritalin and very hard to control.
I have always thought that a) the child is horribly spoiled b) bad parenting skills - he is nine this year and still sleeps with his mother, apart from hitting her etc. c) As he is black and she is white it is about time that she told him that he is adopted. This has been a problem for him at school and when he asks her why they are so different she tell him that this is the way that God made them and that is that. So that is a little of the background info.
Her step daughter called and said that the boy had taken a sharp kitchen knife and repeatedly stabbed a bull frog that was in their garden, in its neck and killed the creature.
I quietly said that this is not normal behaviour and when she takes the boy to his appointment with a child Psychologist in March she should mention this incident.
She went mental and said this is what all children do. So I zipped my mouth firmly closed and didn't say anything more.
Later in the evening I asked my son if he and his brothers had done anything like this when we lived on the farm. He said that once they were shying stones at a bull frog and their father saw them and explained that this was wrong but he also thought that this violent repeated stabbing on a bull frog was bizarre.
I thought so to, but what do you think? Is it unacceoptable behaviour fro a boy who is nine later this year?
6 people like this
20 responses
@ANTIQUELADY (36440)
• United States
22 Feb 09
of course it's not. i would have been very concerned if one of my sons had done something like that when they were young. i can't believe she has not told the child he is adopted especially with him being black & her white. bless his heart doesn't seem like he has much of a chance of growing up normally with her for his mother. sounds like she needs help to.
@ANTIQUELADY (36440)
• United States
23 Feb 09
that really puts u on the spot. i couldn't turn my back on her either. good luck.
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
23 Feb 09
so would I - she is convinced that it is ADHD and all the teachers and friends are wrong about him. Thanks for responding
@getnbuy (1312)
• United States
23 Feb 09
Yes, it is unacceptable for any child to do this. But, what is more unacceptable is the mother sleeping with the boy. There are lots of problems with this household.I would report this situation to whatever child protective services you have available to you in your part of the world.
@getnbuy (1312)
• United States
23 Feb 09
Well, it depends, ofcourse, on what is going on in that bed. it could be the reason the kid is so messed up and violent. I used to work in a facility for children with behaioral problems. Believe me, some of the things adults do with their children is disgusting. This mother may be using the boy as a substitute for her husband. At least, that is some of the things I have seen at the facility where i taught. Along with all the other symptoms this family has, I really think they should be checked out, as I said.
@stacyv81 (5903)
• United States
23 Feb 09
Yea It truly does depend what goes on in the bed, I agree.
I had this friend whose boyfriend and his mom had a weird relationship, I thought that deep down, her son was the only stable man in her life. While I dont think it was anything necessarily inappropriate physically, I think the bond was kind of sick, ya know? She was always really jealous of the attention he gave his wife (once they were married) and actually talked him into divorcing her, and he now lives with his mom and her boyfriend, so I see what you mean, Even if nothing inappropriate physically is happening, sometimes you can cause emotional damage by not having an appropriate mother son relationship.
@lilybug (21107)
• United States
22 Feb 09
Ok, throwing stones at a frog( as your son's did) and stabbing a frog repeatedly are 2 totally different things. To me it does not sound like typical boy behavior. If I caught my son doing something like that I would sure be grounding him and talking to his doctor/psychologist about it.
1 person likes this
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
22 Feb 09
I'm glad that you think the same as I do. That is why I asked my son and he was totally honest about it. I never had brothers and my sons would never have shied stones at a bullfrog around me so I was just wondering what everyone thought. Many thanks
@dawnald (85135)
• Shingle Springs, California
23 Feb 09
I'm not any kind of an expert, from what I've read this is how abusive behaviour starts. First animal abuse, then other people. The child needs to be dealt with NOW before this escalates into something that can't be treated.
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
23 Feb 09
I've had so many great responses and they basically say the same as you. I am going to speak to her doctor about it all. many thanks
1 person likes this
@Humbug25 (12540)
•
22 Feb 09
Hey there cynhiann
You what? Normal behaviour? I think not!!!!!! My eldest son was 8 in January and would never dream of doing such a thing to an animal, I think the worst he has ever done in throw a worm, which I did tell him off about! I think that my son wouldn't even hold a frog especially if it kept moving. We have some guinea pigs and he is very gentle with them, I even hear him talking to them sometimes when he feeds them in the morning and evening, it's sweet. A child of 8 years old shouldn't be allowed sharp knives either, what's that all about? I even watch my son carefully when he borrows the kitchen scissors! I would worry that this child becomes violent towards your friend especially if he is already hitting her, what will he do next? It needs to be sorted before it is too late!
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
22 Feb 09
Hi Humbug, I sent you a pm for your address because I sem to have sent it to computer heaven or something.
He spends time with his mother's step daughter who is 11 (My friend has custody of ehr too)at home alone after school and for part of the day on Saturday. They were alone at home. She works full time and the ex does not give her money regularly.
I have known him from he was i day old and today,. I do not like or trust him. if he visits , the sitter knows never to leave the twins alone with him under any circumstances and to watch him constantly. He is sly and manipulative child who is not liked by the other kids in the community.
I'm glad to hear you give out as I wondered if it was hust me who is concerned.I hope that you had a good time with the boys. Blessings
1 person likes this
@Humbug25 (12540)
•
22 Feb 09
I haven't recieved a PM from you since you gave me your address and a postcard is on it's way to you already!!
I think the issue of the child's adoption should be addressed as soon as possible too. I feel sorry for this lad in a way because it sounds as if he has a lot of frustrations and needs to air them and maybe no one is listening to him because they don't like him and won't give him the time of day! I would be happy to discuss such things with my son at his age without going into too much detail but I would always be there for him for when he wanted to ask lots of questions which he would do to help him understand what is going on! I think your friend is in denial if she doesn't feel it necessary to inform the doctor, she doesn't want to be looked upon as if it is her fault or that she is a bad parent. She has a responsibility to that child to help him have a good life which any child deserves given the right guidance!
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
22 Feb 09
I have known the boy from birth. when he was two + I advised her to get a book or counselling or how to tell him that he was adopted. This has never been done. In the interest of the child, I told her doctor that he had never been told and asked her to tell the Child Psychologist. I hope that this has been done. Of course it is a big issue for him. My 8 year old grand daughter also told him that his mother cannot be his mother as he is black and not brown like she is. Kid's know as multi racial marriages are so common out here and to them black and white makes brown children. It is logical to them. So he asked my GF where she had got him from. She replied where did I tell you that I got you from. He replied the hospital and she left it at that after coming out with the God made us so that is o.k. remark. He has been violent from about 3 years old
but always a very difficult child. who knows? someone may have told him about his birth family. He is the image of his mother. He has hit her for years. She takes so much abuse and then gives him one when she looses it. I am so concerned. Thanks for getting back to me and please pm you address to me again as I am leaving early Thursday. Blessings
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
23 Feb 09
This is not normal behavior. The boy is a psychopath, either in the making or is one already. It is not about him being adopted, although if she told him then, he might have grown up resentful, and if she decides to tell him later, then he still will be resentful. This girl friend is in denial. She thinks by being a good mother that what is wrong with the boy can be overcome. I guess she take him to a child psychiatrist, one that is versed in deviant behavior and have him evaluated.
Her life and the life of her other daughter may be in jeopardy.
That boy needs help before he turns from hurting animals to hurting people.
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
23 Feb 09
wow! you certainly don't pull punches and I appreciate your frank and honest reply. We both use the same doctors and I am calling the dcotor tonight to inform her of what is happening. I am really scared of what he will be when older. This boy has a nuclear family , mother & father and three siblings who live in the same vicinity. What will happen when he finds out? yes, she is in denial. I'm going to stop by her house tonight and broach the adoption issue. many thanks dear friend
@checapricorn (16061)
• United States
23 Feb 09
H[i]i cyn,
That is alarming..I will not say that is normal behavior. I will also think that is it better for the mother to mention that incident to the child's Psychologist! [/i]
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
23 Feb 09
I am going to call her doctor and ask the doctor to talk to the psychologist. many thanks for responding
@stacyv81 (5903)
• United States
23 Feb 09
It would be completely unacceptable to be me! My son would definitely be taught about why it is wrong to kill things and be violent towards things. I think it should definitely be handled and not shrugged off as normal....It seems this little boy has anger issues that need to be addressed before this frog turns into someone.
I am not sure what the "normal" behavior is for a nine year old boy as my son is still 5, but I can assure you that, it seems a violent, angry outburst that should definitely be dealt with =)
There was a 6 year old boy in a mentalk institution in my area for killing a cat and eating it....Which makes me think that this isnt normal behavior, if it were, he wouldnt have been in there.
The fact that the mother is trying to address his anger issues, which he obviously had before the incident, is disturbing, because it is obviously getting worse, and should be dealt with before he gets himself into trouble abd hurts someone else.
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
23 Feb 09
dear stacy - I have read all your comments with great interest and I have to say that I agree with you. all his anger needs to be addressed and dealt with if he is to have any chance in life. It is awful and I am going to call his doctor and ask her to deal with it. Many thanks for your interesting responses.
@rychelle314 (285)
•
23 Feb 09
I have several documentary books about serial killers where their psychological profiles, background etc. are discussed (Just in case anyone might wonder, I have a huge collection of books, not necessarily all about murderers :P), and torturing small animals during childhood appears to be a common denominator among would be killers.
I know it's a bit overboard, but I believe parents should always make it a point to balance everything, that is, disciplining their children but letting them know and feel nonetheless that they are loved. Most childrens' problems after all, are rooted from not being able to get enough attention and guidance from their parents/guardians.
This kid that you are talking about is still a kid, so unless he is really a sociopath, I reckon something other than just sending him to a shrink, ought to be done for him.
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
23 Feb 09
I know what you mean. You punish the behavior or 'crime' but the child still knows that they are loved. he is seeing a child psychologist and hopefully she will able to help him. He is definitely an attention seeker and is always butting in when we are talking. Refusing to wait etc until we have finished speaking. so very aggressive. Many thanks for your response.
@Bebs08 (10681)
• United States
23 Feb 09
As I analyze the situation, this boy is a troubled one. One thing that bothers him for sure is the color of him and his adoptive mother which he is in so much trouble understanding why it happened. I think he experienced teasing by his friends why he looks different from his mom and that is one cause. It is the mother's fault of not telling the truth to him. The kind of behavior is not normal. Emotionally and mentally he needs help.
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
23 Feb 09
I should think that he has gone through a lot of teasing from his friends - especially as he insists that my GF is his birth mother. It is not unusual for adoption of different races but he difference is that the kids know and say that they are adopted. It is all a secret and he is confused over this. Many thanks for responding
@Barb42 (4214)
• United States
22 Feb 09
This woman needs to wise up and fast! This young boy is headed for trouble big time. The people who deal with this say that this kind of bad behavior in young people lead to worse things in their teenage years and adult life. She may be waiting to be killed! It is happening more and more in families who think this kind of child is how children act, and it is not! She definitely needs to tell him he's adopted and be prepared to have to put him in a home for problem children. I believe that is what it will come down to, unless something worse happens before. She needs to get some counseling and advice from professionals. And she sure does need to mention this when she goes to see the child Psychologist. By the way, why are they seeing him? Has she had trouble with him before? At least, you have warned her, although it fell on deaf ears.
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
23 Feb 09
We do not have homes for problem children - or at least only one and this is so overcrowded. He is seeing the child Psychologist for assessment for ADHD and is on mega doses of Ritalin which send him to sleep at night but I have not seen any changes in behaviour. He is manipulative and says that he sees an angry red face before he acts in a destructive manner. I don't know. he lies like hell. His face actually changes - horrible to see - I am going to speak to his doctor. Thanks for your input.
@CRIVAS (1815)
• Canada
23 Feb 09
I think that this is a very big warning sign and if she doesn't mention it, you might want to. This is not normal behavior by any standard and it is something that she definately needs to get checked into. If this continues what is to stop this boy from taking the next step and doing it to bigger animals until that's not good enough. I know that killing animals is one of the biggest signs that a psychologist will look for in determining if the child is healthy mentally, I personally would report him before it is to late. I think that you are also right about he needs to be told about his adoption, he is old enough now to understand what that means and he is too old to be lied to. I don't think that this girl should have children if she isn't willing to do what is best for her child. The fact that she thinks his behavior is normal is not a good sign, it could mean that she herslef is not ready to be a parent and that she needs help. I hope that everything works out and that the boy gets the help that he needs before it is too late. Happy mylotting.
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
23 Feb 09
My GF is not young - she must be in her early 50's with menopause looming. she married a man 25 years younger and is now divorced from him. I am going to speak to the doctor as I am so concerned. This is not normal behavior at all. Thanks for your great response,
@alharra (507)
• United States
23 Feb 09
I have 3 kids with ADD/ADHD and NONE of them have ever done anything like you described. There is something definately wrong with this little boy and something needs to be done. If the kids Mom wants to bury her head 9in the sand she needs to have it yanked right back up and she HAS to face this. That boy needs special help and if she doesn't tell the dr. he is not going to get it. I don't suppose this kid wets the bed and sets fires does he?
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
23 Feb 09
I don't know if he wets the bed as she takes him to the bathroom several times each night. he does have a fascination with fires but don't all boys like fires? I'm not sure - you have made me think. I don't remember mine lighting fires except to cook when they were working all day on the farm and the workers cooked.
I really do not think that it is ADHD`- as you rightly said - she has her head in the sand over this. Thanks for responding
@alharra (507)
• United States
23 Feb 09
I hate to say this but the 3 major signs that someone either is or will be a killer in future is wetting the bed, setting fires and torturing small animals. Just because all 3 are present doesn't mean someone will definately be a serial killer but most of those killers have these things in common. This woman needs to take steps to protect herself, any other kids that my be around and the little boy with the problem. This child is in serious trouble and without intervention he will hurt or kill someone- and it probably will be soon.
@mummyofthree (2715)
•
22 Feb 09
I agree with you on all counts!
I would be seriously concerned if any of my children rpeadetly stabbed an animal!
Actions like that are often the begining of psychopathic behaviour! Look at some of the most infamous pschopaths through history and they had animal cruelty in their childhood!
I'm not saying he will turn in to a mass murederer over night but there is definately something wrong. His mother really needs to sit him down and discuss his adoption and get to the bottom of what is causing him such anguish!
Perhaps you could send his psych a letter or contact them in some way and express your concerns? For this childs well being I think some one really needs to step in.
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
23 Feb 09
I actually did step in for another child of a friend many years ago. I told his Psychiatrist that he always stopped going to Psychiatrist when his s*xuality was addressed. I knew that he was g*y. I know it because he went in my son's bed one night and my son ran to me. There were repercussions but this boy was a teenager.
I am going to phone the doctor and let her speak to the Psychologist, many thanks for this suggestion and for responding
@Opal26 (17679)
• United States
23 Feb 09
Hi cynthiann! That is by no means normal behavior! This child
sounds like he is bipolar! And that child is extremely mentally
disturbed! That is not normal behavior for a child, even one
diagnosed as bipolar! That is extremely agressive and angry
behavior that needs to be stopped before the he decides to
use the knife on a human being! That type of behavior will
only progress if it isn't stopped. The child needs to be
taken to a psychiatrist and right away. This woman is putting
herself, family and anyone that comes in contact with this
child in extreme danger! This child could kill another child!
That is the first sign when they start by killing animals. I
have heard about these cases many times. This is so serious.
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
23 Feb 09
Opal, many responses have virtually said the same thing. This is not normal behaviour. I do not see mood swings but I do see manipulative and out of control behaviour to his mother and the mothers 11 year old step daughter. I think that yo9u are so right - it needs to be stopped before he uses a weapon a child. I caught him teasing the twins cruelly and so he is not welcome in my home unless his mother is there and also my son to watch him constantly. He doesn't mess with my son who has spoken to him sternly several times. he behaves around my son so this is why I do not think it is bi polar or ADHD - but bad parenting and he doesn't know who he is or where he stands in the world.
@GAUCI123 (1042)
• Malta
22 Feb 09
Well a difficult situation, i think this boy needs some help and need to know the truth about his adoption. The more time passes the more difficult it will be to tell him the truth until he will figure it by himself or by some friends.
It is not normal for me, stabbing a frog like that, this maybe a signal that where he was before being adopted, maybe he was hurt or something. Maybe the boy needs to forget and start a new life, I don't know but if I was her i will sure be worried and will tell the doctor about such behaviour.
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
22 Feb 09
His birth mother was very poor and gave him up at one day old - so my friend almost has had him from birth. He only knows my friend and does not know that he has a mother and father and at least 3 other siblings who all live together. I really feel that he needs help with all this issues. many thanks for responding.
@blue65packer (11826)
• United States
23 Feb 09
This child and women need help! The mother is in denial that her son has major problems! If nothing is done to help this child he'll end up in jail! Probaly for hurting or killing his mother! If the mom won't do anything, would the father get the boy help? Proving he is part of the boy's life! Maybe social services should be called in to check out this situation or child services? It is ovious something has to be done!
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
23 Feb 09
The father did not want them to adopt a child. he already has a daughter that the wife is looking after. He does not really care for the boy but will see him every few months or so. he left them all when Travis was two weeks old. Travis thinks that the father is his real father etc. The mother paid the father to pretend that they were together so that the adoption would go through o.k. We do not have resources re children. We have some but they are overburdened. I'm going to talk to his doctor when i return to office. many thanks for your good advice
@forslahiri (1042)
• India
23 Feb 09
Hi,
Of course,it is!
U r Right.The boy should have repeated sitting sessions for counselling with Psychiatrics.I am sure the lonliness,the seperation-episode's reflection on child's mind will come on to the surface.Hitting the frog several times ruthlessly is only the reflection of his underlying frustration on Love,affection etc he is deprived of in this age.
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
23 Feb 09
Thank you for responding. I think that he does need a lot of counselling too. It can only help him as he is deeply disturbed.
@NessaFilth (341)
• United States
22 Feb 09
That's definately not normal! Actually its been proven that a lot of murderers used to harm smaller animals when they were younger. That little boy definately needs help- before he hurts someone badly.. or even himself!
@cynthiann (18602)
• Jamaica
23 Feb 09
Thank you Nessa for responding. If that is a picture of you then you are a very pretty young woman. I thought that I had read this too about murderers. I am going to talk to his doctor about all of this.
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