What is so TERRIBLE about the bow? (Of course referring to President Obama)

@lumenmom (1986)
United States
April 9, 2009 7:52pm CST
There has been so much controversy about whether or not President Obama actually did bow to the Saudi King, but my question is what is so terrible about it if he did? Some have said "it just isn't done", but what does that truly mean? Are there not times that you go to someone's home and they have customs that you don't have but you defer to their custom for the time that you are there out of respect for them? Is it so bad a thing to show respect to someone?
3 people like this
14 responses
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
10 Apr 09
The President of the United States is of equal standing to the King of Saudi Arabia. He should never bow to the King just as the King would never bow to the President. Just a polite nod of the head is all the is required. Obama bowed to him as though he were a subservient subject. He made the U.S.A. look like puppets. Shalom~Adoniah
2 people like this
@lumenmom (1986)
• United States
10 Apr 09
I do see your point that a nod is all that is required. Maybe he was trying to go beyond what is required in an effort to work on repairing America's tarnished image. Just a thought.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
10 Apr 09
Yeah, if going beyond means acting as a subject of the Saudi king. Pardon me if I don't think we need to address our supposedly tarnished reputation with a king who rules a country that tortures rape victims and elderly women.
2 people like this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
10 Apr 09
Hello Adoniah, If it's alright with you I'd like to add to your poignant point. I hope that's OK. What I believe is most objectionable about our President bowing to anyone is that our President represents We The People. So, when Obama bowed down to Abdullah, he was representing the whole of the United States of America as deferring to the superiority of Abdullah's monarchy. Which, of course, causes my blood to boil!
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
10 Apr 09
You fail to understand. It's not customary for a ruler of one nation to BOW in subjugation to the ruler of another nation. The two are equals. The Saudi king is NOT superior to the US president. It would be different if this were Japan where it may be customary for BOTH leaders to bow mutually as a greeting. Only subjects bow the the Saudi king.
2 people like this
@lumenmom (1986)
• United States
10 Apr 09
You mentioning the mutuality aspect of it helps to shed light on why it would seen as questionable. I am glad to get these kind of responses rather just the emotional ones because it gives me more to process in my own interpretation of the situation.
@jonesy123 (3948)
• United States
10 Apr 09
Problem is, it wasn't the Saudi King's home, not even his country. Obama didn't bow to the Queen of England, nor to any other person in attendance, but to the Saudi King. That is strange in itself. Nobody else did it, and it appears the White House is insisting it didn't happen that way. It's hard though not to see a bow in it, lol. IMO, if he wanted to show respect, he should have shown it to all royalty in presence, not just to one. He simply didn't treat everybody the same and it was the strangest thing to do, but the worst for a President of the United States of America.
2 people like this
@lumenmom (1986)
• United States
10 Apr 09
Now that you put it in that perspective, I can see where the act would be questionable. It is helpful for me to hear actual issues rather than just angry outcry. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt and since I know his every move is scrutinized and or criticized, I try to be fair in my own assessment of him as President.
@ZephyrSun (7381)
• United States
10 Apr 09
I don't know something else for conservatives to bytch about I suppose. It's nice to see a President traveling to other countries again and rebuilding our lost ties to other nations.
1 person likes this
• Belgium
10 Apr 09
*Terrorist fist jab*
@lumenmom (1986)
• United States
10 Apr 09
Personally I think it did have more to do with trying to repair the bad image we as Americans have unwittingly obtained than it has to do with showing a weakness to the Muslim people. Whether or not it was a bad decision, I cannot judge but I want to give our President the benefit of the doubt that he is trying to do what is best for the American people and the support of a person who believes that we can and will prevail.
@Fortunata (1135)
• United States
10 Apr 09
1. A president of the USA never bows to anyone. Protocol. 2. People suspect he was saying 'Salaam," and this only stirs up the tinhats that think he is a closet muslim. He shouldn't have done it. He screwed up, and his staff shouldn't have lied for him.
1 person likes this
@lumenmom (1986)
• United States
11 Apr 09
I do agree that his staff should not lie about it or cover it up. It is what it is and if he felt he did nothing wrong or to ashamed of, there should be no problem addressing it since it has apparently offended so many American people.
@lampar (7584)
• United States
10 Apr 09
Actually bow to a S. king only performed by Saudi subject. No free person need to do that, as he does not have to accept this nonsense. Unless you regard royal family in a feudalistic society as legitimate authority.
1 person likes this
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
10 Apr 09
Hello Lumenmom, A monarchy is defined by its embrace of 'superior ancestral lineage' as a justification for absolute dominance over others, and/or in certain instances the outward projection of the monarch as a representative of The Divine Creator (however "Divine" is defined) -- or both. In other words, the king or queen rules (absolutley) over others because his or her genes are declared superior, and he or she is the most senior authority of all. Our U.S. system of governance defers ONLY to a supreme being -- The Divine Creator, as the most senior authority. That is what is meant by the following quote from our Declaration of Independence. "... and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." That Obama bowed to any monarch demonstrates deference to that monarch's perceived 'right to dominate', and disrespects every facet of our founding -- our Constitution, the Founders & Framers, and 233 years of history and tradition based on the principles of our Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The U.S. Founding Documents declare, with impunity, that all of our citizens are equal under our law because of rights conveyed by The Divine Creator. In a monarchy, all rights are conveyed at the pleasure of the monarch -- hence, absolute rule!!! Still, what I believe is most egregious about Obama's action is that because the USA is a representative Republic (not a Democracy), and because the President is the most senior representative of every U.S. citizen, Obama deferred to King Abdullah's right to dominate every U.S. citizen! Everything that our president does is on behalf of the American People. So, Obama's protocol blunder projected the untenable, unspoken sentiment that the citizens of the USA are subordinate to the Saudi royal line, and that our rights come from other than our Creator. I, for one, am pretty darned peeved about that. King Abdullah rules over a nation that strictly adheres to policies that uphold beliefs that contradict every fundamental of my beliefs, and those of the whole of our nation. The U.S.A. was founded upon the principles of unalienable rights endowed by The Creator -- not a monarch, a senate, or a president -- but by God -- alone! As well as equality under the law. The Saudi empire's tenets define and persist, based on bias and favoratism under the law, where exceptions and leniencies are defined at the whim of the monarch and its assignees. The Saudi King isn't just the political leader of Saudi Arabia, he is also the head of the nation which proudly boasts to be the holy center of Islam. As well, Islam boasts that Muslims are superior to non-Muslims, and that certain Muslims are superior to other Muslims -- all based upon a system that does NOT respect lawful equality. Which of course suggests that Obama, while representing all U.S. citizens bowed in deference to the absolute ruler of the land which raises Islam up as it's most venerable law, as the sanctioned religion of the Saudi Royal line. These are slights (perhaps ??? based on ignorance or something else) that cannot go unchallenged! Add the Quranic tenets of Islam that Muslims are superior to non-Muslims, and we begin to see where the difference in cultural perceptions indicates that Obama bowed down to the superiority of Abdullah, as well as Islam. "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves…" (48:29) "Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors." (3:110) http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Quran-Hate.htm On top of all else, Obama's team has the "audacity", after the fact, to declare that it wasn't a bow, when anyone with a set of working eyeballs could clearly see that Obama bowed down to the level of Abdullah's waist. How dare he, or any elected American public servant declare that we're all either blind or too stupid to have the wits and knowledge to interpret what we saw with our own two eyes. Imagine if anyone else usurped the right to tell us what we saw! We'd be fighting over who'd have the right to tell the clown to go to Hades first. Diplomacy is called an art for a reason. This latest blunder is but one more demonstration that our new president is in way over his head, to the detriment of the nation as a whole. There are limitless interpretations that can be made by Muslims all over the world about Obama's deference to the king of 'the land of Mecca'. Now that Obama has declared deference and subordination to an Islamic state, the next time something comes up, and Obama decides to stand in opposition to subjegation and forced subordination, he will be perceived as a hypocrite -- as will the nation that he represents -- which will no doubt, damage our negotiating position, regardless of the subject.
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
10 Apr 09
Thank you for the support, Rjscott. It is much appreciated.
@lucy02 (5016)
• United States
10 Apr 09
I have no idea.I didn't vote for Obama but this seems like such a petty thing for someone to complain about. There is too many more important things going on than this to worry about.
@LittleMel (8742)
• Canada
10 Apr 09
I am not American and I am not moslem but I came from a country that has over 90% moslem population maybe his bowing can be considered a sign of surrendering but in some traditions bowing is also a sign of respect such as bowing to someone of higher position or important position, maybe also richer when visiting his house then again we are talking about two rulers of two different countries whose position is equal despite of financial condition now I read that Obama is related to a moslem so he might have learned what bowing means and he does that for whatever reason I think it's the reason why he bows, not the bowing itself that some people are not sure of and not become comfortable with just my 2 cents, not trying to interfere with your country's politic
• United States
10 Apr 09
To bow to someone is showing submission..
1 person likes this
@Sgurleyd (68)
• United States
10 Apr 09
For me at this point, the worst part is the STUPID explanation from the White House. He wasn't bowing but bending to shake someones hand. Perhaps a dwarf??? The pictures don't lie but apparently they think we are all just total morons! HE BOWED!! No other explanation!
1 person likes this
@smartjack (520)
• India
10 Apr 09
seriously there was no need to create such a controversy for such a small issue, he didn't kneel down in front of the Saudi king
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
10 Apr 09
So are you telling me you would have considered it an issue if he had kneeled?
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
11 Apr 09
Lumenmom, he chose this job and in so doing he chose to accept the scrutiny that goes along with it. Bush spent 8 years getting bashed for everything he did, and many things he didn't do. When you are the leader of a superpower, you have to take it and do your best.
@lumenmom (1986)
• United States
10 Apr 09
I think anything he does gets scrutinized so completely that he can't do anything at all without some criticism. I imagine he has to be in one of the toughest positions right now, being an imperfect man trying to turn around such monumental problems that were in place long before he came into office and yet he is expected to do everything perfectly even though we all know that is not possible.
@Jenniferp (210)
• United States
10 Apr 09
I think that Obama is a class act and that arrogance is the last thing that we need. One of his endearing qualities is that he is respectful to all people and I think that is the best way to be.
@ladyluna (7004)
• United States
10 Apr 09
Hello Jenniferp, First, welcome to MyLot. I hope that you enjoy yourself among our little community. Second, to the supposition that it would demonstrate arrogance for our president to not have bowed before the Saudi monarch: Protocol dictates that a sign of respect, without demonstrating deference to another sovereign leader is to keep one's shoulders straight, do not bend at the waist, but lower the head only, while shaking hands. There are very specific rules outlining protocol as it relates to diplomacy. While some may find it "endearing", and "respectful", the fact of the matter is that if Obama bothered to humble himself to having learned what is expected of him, he wouldn't have made this blunder. There is a staff desginee "Chief Agent of Protocol", who is at the beck and call of the Commander in Chief. All that had to happen was for Obama to have taken two minutes to confer with the Chief Agent of Protocol to learn the appropriate measure of demonstrable respect. You, and far too many others seem to think that this is an either/or scenario, which is NOT the case. The POTUS is expected to know the balance between diplomacy and cultural exchange -- it's part of the job, and requires very little POTUS time, and just a smidgen of humility. He confers with all manner of advisors in transit, and behind the scenes every day. So, why not take the two minutes to learn the appropriate protocol for greeting sovereign leaders? How is it that he knew that it would have been inappropriate to have bowed before the British Monarch, yet didn't know that it was inappropriate to bow to the Saudi Monarch???
@dadafra (14)
• Nigeria
10 Apr 09
I do not see any thing wrong. bowing only proves Obama's man handling capabilities. As they say "when in Rome do like the Romans"