What is the difference between salvation and Enlightenement?

Hello freethinkingagent!! Well at first I thought that the enlightenment and the salvation are both the similar things with different words. I understand what you meant. But with this thread, I came to know that the salvation is the different thing and the enlightenment is the different thing. The concept of salvation is totally depended on God. In the first response, I saw that the Bible has stated that even the enlightened person can still go in hell. Because he is not in the state of salvation for not believing in God. This I felt the extreme stupidity. The religions that are depended on gaining the enlightenment is found to be opposing the existence of God. They say that the belief in God is in fact the barrier to the path of enlightenment. And if you look at the concept of salvation according to religions then they are totally depended on god. And I understand what you meant about saying every thing is the same. Yes I totally agree with you. It is our perceptions that made it different. Light and we are the same thing, sound is the same thing. Everything is same, they are seen varied depending upon our senses. This creates the illusion. Actually everything is made from the same thing. Like you said, when we look the things or its source then we will find that everything is made from the same thing. This is the oneness. But to realize this thing, we need to reach the state of enlightenment. It seems that the concept of salvation and enlightenment is totally opposing. Thought the meaning of both is to reach the similar thing. i.e getting rid of pain and suffering. Thanks for your intelligent response...happy mylotting...

Enlightenment without the knowledge of God is not enlightenment at all. Enlightenment with out God is folly. The fool says in his heart there is no God, and with his intelligence he proves he knows nothing. Salvation begins with enlightenment, with out enlightenment how can one know he is in need of Salvation? Therefore true enlightenment is salvation, and salvation is the breaking of the earthly chains that keep us in the dark and on the same spiritual road to nowhere.

Hello freethinkingagent!!! I disagree with your statement "Enlightenment without god is foolish." Lord Buddha, the first enlightened person in the timleline, he had never took the support of God. At that time, there was no proper knowledge about anything. And he clarified most of the happenings of this world. He said not to take the support of God. In fact, the belief in God is one of the ditches that prevents you from reaching the enlightenment. The same is with Osho. He also say the same thing. If you look at the concept of enlightenment in both of Buddhism and Osho, you will find that the Enlightenment means the same thing. Not like salvation in Christianity and Muslim is different. Salvation is totally related to God according to the religions like taking the support of God and saying forget himself/herself. At least the people who reached the enlightenment don't see the God in the concept given by the religions. They give the different meaning. They talk about oneness made everything from the same thing like you mentioned.

Can it be that they are two sides of the same coin? Freedom from suffering and the eternal absence of suffering are very relative to each other. Can salvation come from enlightenment? With out enlightenment can one know of salvation in the sense that he/she really needs it? I am not speaking in a religious sense of the word salvation and forgiveness. For me forgiveness is only important to self. One can not find enlightenment with out forgiveness of self, because if i am constantly thinking about things I have done that have caused me pain or caused pain to others, I can never find enlightenment. Religion tries to give man forgiveness by saying God forgives them, but this alone can not get rid of guilt and remorse. So for me to have "salvation", I must forgive myself as a flawed being that does not know who I am, and then realize i may be something more than I am. Then have an understanding that I must find out if i am more than I believe. This is the rode to enlightenment, and with enlightenment I find my own salvation and forgiveness of self. Because when I see myself I now understand that all things are not good or bad, black or white, that all things come and return to the same point of light, and that even I belong to that point of light. and thus I am enlightened with my salvation, their is no guilt nor remorse, only knowledge that I am not alone, and I never will be. I have rambled enough, I am sure i am making no sense what so ever.

Whether Salvation could come without Enlightenment depends on the the way the religion was conceived(pardon me: Revealed to the Prophets/Seers). Like for example within the SD-fold, we have the school that would vouch for Salvation and/or Enlightenment certain by the grace of Guru/God, which school also dismisses Enlightenment and Salvation occurring at different times. The only method for this is to surrender the ego to Guru/God. This is the Vishishta-Advaita School or Qualified Monotheists as that can be translated into English. There is the other school which says Salvation is possible only by the Grace of God(mediated by the Guru) and in no other way. These are our Dwaita-Vedantis(or Dualists). This school dismisses Enlightenment as unnecessary even. As I understand the literary meaning of Salvation is "being saved(?)".Correct me if I am wrong, and if it has any more connotations than that. Let's take it that it means being saved from ruin/eternal damnation or as in the SD-belief system being saved from being born again into the cycle of births and deaths. In a way you are right in saying that E and S mean the same in the ultimate analysis: I was trying to bring out the subtle differences between religions in the concept, why, the differences between different schools of Vedanta within SD. Onlly the Advaitis among the Vedantis and the Buddhists/Jains place the responsibility of Enlightenment as a necessary prelude to Salvation. In fact Salvation(viewed in the H/B/J paradigm)there is no other way. Advaita however incorporates the SD view of Faith-Grace path as an alternative available, but goads one to strive for it actively.

I would say that an enlightened person he who has attained Nirvana does not need salvation because there is nothing to be saved or liberated from. Suffering is a myth because it has nothing to do with our true state of being or the superconscious. Enlightenment is that state of being where one is in total bliss, where one will not even think 'I have been liberated'. Salavtion is to do with mind (Believe in Jesus/Allah/Yahweh and you will attain salvation.) Enlightenment is supposed to happen when you have no beliefs, no worries, no thoughts, when the ego disappears. Salvation is needed for the ego, and not for the superconscious. During EN, the ego disappears by merging or dissolving into the superconscious. However, all this is not fro my personal experience. I may be wrong here.

But by reaching Enlightenment you have gone beyond suffering and pain.

Yes, that's true...

Hello sarahruthbeth22!!! The concept of salvation you mentioned is right. But the concept of enlightenment you mentioned is vague. Enlightenment is also the sate of freeing from suffering and pain. It is reaching the ultimate wisdom, the phenomenon of life in its true form.

Very True. One mustn't shy away from adversity. Even the bard said: "Sweet are the uses of adversity". Enlightenment is the end of both "pleasure" and "pain" the result of duality and in its place you have unalloyed bliss. Well, I didn't use Bliss as an equivalent of "pleasure"!

That is very true bird123!!! Adversity is the part of learning. I meant is the same. The adversity brings in the awareness in human beings in search of knowledge or liberation. It is the adversity itself due to which all the religions emerged, philosophy emerged. I am also more towards enlightenment concept than the salvation. Thanks for your response...happy mylotting...