Can You Have Your Cake and Eat It?

@p1kef1sh (45638)
August 25, 2009 3:39pm CST
Talking to the Boss earlier we discussed whether married priests can truly give their lives to God when they have other factors to consider - namely their spouses and families. I don't have an answer, if I were a married priest I'd undoubtedly say that I could accommodate both. Should priests be allowed to marry? Will Priests in the Roman Catholic church be able to marry first; or will women become acceptable for ordination first? What's your view?
8 people like this
22 responses
@TravisE (445)
• United States
26 Aug 09
The Catholic church originally allowed Priests to marry. They changed that policy in the 4th century, IIRC, when they realized that they could use the land that land-owning priests were leaving to their wives and children. I think they absolutely should be allowed to marry, and the fact that they aren't is what leads to so many priests having stunted development in an area that their flock could probably use counsel in, ie - human sexuality.
2 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45638)
27 Aug 09
I've not heard that line before about the church wanting priest's land. Can you give me a reference please.
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@TravisE (445)
• United States
27 Aug 09
http://atheism.about.com/od/romancatholicism/a/celibacy.htm
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@p1kef1sh (45638)
28 Aug 09
Thank you for that. An interesting read.
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@sugarlen (138)
• Philippines
27 Aug 09
Priests made a vow of charity, how in the world can a priest be true to his vow if he were married? The priest should devote his time serving God and those in need if he were married how can he resolve issues on family matters when he must be always out of his home serving the Lord and those in need. Priests should devote his time to the Lord wholeheartedly. It will be hard to serve two masters at the same time.
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@p1kef1sh (45638)
27 Aug 09
Roman Catholic priests are celibate - but many others aren't. But that's my question. Why can some be and others not?
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@sugarlen (138)
• Philippines
27 Aug 09
It is a matter of choice which we can't contest if others want or others do not to get married but it is still best to serve God with your whole heart and your whole mind.
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@dawnald (84069)
• Shingle Springs, California
25 Aug 09
I'm going to say neither is going to happen. I don't think they're going to change either one of those things in my lifetime.
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@dawnald (84069)
• Shingle Springs, California
25 Aug 09
PS What kind of cake?
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@p1kef1sh (45638)
25 Aug 09
I tend to incline along those lines too Dawn. In fact if I incline far enough I shall be able to reach this moist CHERRY cake from here!
2 people like this
@dawnald (84069)
• Shingle Springs, California
25 Aug 09
Cherry cake... I'm going to assume pun and go hahahahahaha
@MsTickle (25050)
• Australia
31 Aug 09
Why ordain anyone at all? Why insist on not marrying and celibacy? Why have a vow of poverty in the Catholic faith when the Catholic church is probably the wealthiest business in the world? What's the point of these men who take vows then spend a good part of their lifetime molesting children or lusting after young men and or women? It's all a load of bullshyte in my book.
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@p1kef1sh (45638)
31 Aug 09
LOL. I know a few female vicars - they're an uptight lot in the main - NOTHING like Dawn French. That sounds dreadfully sexist - I know a few uptight male vicars too!
1 person likes this
• Canada
31 Aug 09
The biggest plus I can think of with priests marrying is that they can preach from experience. I would have a very hard time receiving marital advice from someone who was not married, or parenting advice from someone who does not have children. I believe that the best teacher is experience.
1 person likes this
• United States
27 Aug 09
I see nothing wrong with priest marrying and I don't remember reading anything in Scripture to say there is anything wrong with it. I do have a problem with couples going out into the mission field when they have children. So much of their time has to be devoted to their work and the people they're serving that I think it makes it extreme difficult on their children who are often put into private school instead of being with their parents. I think they must feel abandoned.
@p1kef1sh (45638)
28 Aug 09
Me neither. There is a piece of scripture: Matthew 19.12 but I am not convinced that celibacy should be a requirement. Obviously if priests choose to be celibate then that is fine. But requiring them to be doesn't seem a necessity to my mind.
2 people like this
• Netherlands
2 Sep 09
Personally I believe that a Priest could have their cake and eat it too successfully as far as being able to serve God And have a family...after all, Other religions seem to manage just fine when it comes to teaching the Word of God and being married, so what would make Roman Catholic Priests any different? Besides the obvious that someone is going to say it is the only true religion, the best, goes against the teachings of God, etc.! Personally, as for your other question, I think that women being acceptable for Ordination will come before Priests being allowed to marry. I think it is a very prejudice religion at the moment. I don't know Why anyone would think that a woman would be any lesser of a leader of a church, if she had the "calling", than a man...if given the same education, I suppose that some people still think that a woman can not grasp things mentally as well as men can. We Won't get into how I feel about that theory!!
@p1kef1sh (45638)
2 Sep 09
I agree with the concept of married priests too GEL. As to the ordination of women - well why not. Personally I am always happy to be on my knees in front of a woman! LOL.
1 person likes this
• Netherlands
3 Sep 09
That is because you are a HIGHLY INTELLIGENT man P1key!! Being on your knees in front of a woman is where all men should find themselves sometimes, they very well may find that they enjoy it also...after all, you never know What will happen when you are in That position!! LOL
@jlamela (4906)
• Philippines
26 Aug 09
Hello there! I am a devoted Roman Catholic that's why I got interested answering your nice discussion. Well, as a Catholic all my life, my opinion is this: Though, men may express their total loyalty and dedication in serving the priesthood even if they are married, the very concept of the priesthood prohibits men, who want to consecrate himself in the sacrament of priesthood, to get married for the very reason that Jesus Christ himself did not marry and only married to his ministry. Therefore it is in direct opposition to Christ's role in the universal church to allow priests to marry, the very reason why Vatican City never permitted such unthinkable situation. Women should never be accepted in the priesthood, again as this is in direct opposition of Jesus Christ's role in the church. Priesthood should be assumed only by men as a response to the role and vocation instituted by Christ himself, that's why Pope John Paul II, known for his devotion to the Catholic faith and whose legacy in the Papacy claimed him as one of the most effective God's messenger of peace ever sat in the throne of St. Peter, strongly maintained that no women should be admitted to priesthood. I do agree with the late Roman Pontiff's stand and the Vatican's rule about the ministry and the priesthood, no doubt about it. I will remain devoted to my faith no matter what happens.
@p1kef1sh (45638)
26 Aug 09
I admire your faith jLamela. But how does the Roman Catholic Church deal with the problem in the west of falling numbers of men coming forward for ordination? Does not the Church have to be pragmatic at times? The role of women in biblical times was to be supportive and second to men. How do we reconcile that in the 21st century when women are increasingly more equal in almost every other aspect of life.
@mtdewgurl74 (18118)
• United States
26 Aug 09
I think everyone deserves a person to love, hold, kiss and to have children with. I think if they choose to marry then it is what is right for them.
@p1kef1sh (45638)
26 Aug 09
A good response Becky. Exactly. Is that not the meaning of love?
@mtdewgurl74 (18118)
• United States
27 Aug 09
P1key that is what it is supposed to mean...But some sadly get it mixed up and lose out on a very special thing..
@ElicBxn (61134)
• United States
25 Aug 09
I would guess marry first, because I already know a married RC priest, of course, he was an married Anglican priest before he converted to Roman Catholicism.
@p1kef1sh (45638)
26 Aug 09
Is he celibate now? Many converted when the Anglican church ordained women.
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@ElicBxn (61134)
• United States
26 Aug 09
I don't know. Now, I do know that married priests are common in the Eastern Orthodox religion and they consider it normal to have relations with their wives, but abstain during fast seasons and before serving mass.
@catdla1 (6005)
• United States
25 Aug 09
How we conduct our lives outside of places of worship are also our gifts to God. I see no reason why some one can't be married, have a family and be a priest (or sister) too. I know some excellent female ministers, so cannot understand why there is a ban of female priests. I was raised Catholic and have never agreed with their stance on those issues. Here in America church attendance for Catholics has been on a steady decline for years. Parishes and schools have closed, not only because of fewer people attending, but because fewer men and women are taking vows. If the Vatican wants to see a reversal of that, they should at some point consider changing their stances on both issues. I haven't attended church for a long time, but would start back up again if we had a husband/wife team of priests in our parish.
@p1kef1sh (45638)
26 Aug 09
I fear that the RC church is moving backwards under the present Pope. He has already commented that he feels that too many women are involved in parish life. What hope for female priests under such a regime? However, they have to accept that firstly there is no biblical requirement for celibacy and secondly they are just not attracting sufficient men forward to enter the priesthood. That said, The idea of a husband and wife team fills me with some concern. All that holiness in one place! Like Ned Flanders!
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@catdla1 (6005)
• United States
26 Aug 09
The bible was re-written so many times that we don't really know that there's any biblical law excluding ordained female priests either. There's been so many problems with the RC church in this country that it almost looks like an exclusive club for men with sexuality problems. The huge settlements that have been paid out certainly undermines any visual good that they are trying to do. Many younger clergy (at least here) are very open to the idea of being able to get married and ordaining women. Rome is making the church obsolete by refusing to take some steps forward. Living in the 'bible belt' like I do now, I see many successful Protestant parishes of various denominations with husband/wife teams. They certainly draw families and have been extremely profitable. Many that's the problem in Rome. They have enough resources without parishoners.
@bhanusb (5709)
• India
26 Aug 09
In my opinion a married person should not be a priest.A priest means who is above all the earthly affairs.In Buddhism having a spouse a man can't be a monk.A unmarried person should be a monk. A married person also can be a monk. But before being a monk he must leave his wife and family. He should be devoted to become free from all desires.
@p1kef1sh (45638)
26 Aug 09
But I'm not sure that is the practice with Buddhist monks Bhanusb. Many have been extremely political.
@dragon54u (31638)
• United States
26 Aug 09
I think that priests should be allowed to marry. How in the world can they counsel people if they have no idea what a normal life is like? Every sermon is hypocritical when you life such a limited life.
@p1kef1sh (45638)
26 Aug 09
I have had those thoughts too. I suppose one ought to be able to divide spirituality and more earthly matters. But often one is in conflict with the other.
• India
26 Aug 09
Well I am not Catholic and my answer is purely from a Hindu point of view but I hope I’m eligible LOL. I would say NO…it is not possible for us to have our cake and eat it too with respect to God and family life. I am not saying that its best to denounce the family life in pursuit of spiritual progress, as that would contradict the very purpose of having life on earth and its continuity! There are two aspects to this, I feel…one is serving the Church or the Temple or the Mosque and the other is pursuit of God. To me these two are completely different though the latter is often a continuation of the former. Hindu priests are not required to stay celibate in order to perform their religious duties … they marry and breed and die as content family men do…what they do throughout their lives is to take up the profession of serving the temple, either by choice or coz it’s a family profession and they know nothing better. Similarly I feel Catholic priests can marry and take up the profession of serving the church as well. Pursuance of God is an altogether different cup of tea and family is a big hindrance to that. In fact, the entire gamut of family and professional life is a hindrance to the pursuance of the spirit. It needs years of study and diligence and solitude to detach the mind from the family and love God instead. We all come on earth to love life and live it to the fullest…it is but fundamental to the continuity of creation, we don’t come to love God and dedicate our lives to know Him. But if we can do it, then family life becomes a burden. So we have to choose between either of the two…we cant have our cake and eat it too.
@p1kef1sh (45638)
26 Aug 09
Of course it is easier if your Dad was a priest, but that's not an option for Catholic priests.
@sweetie1026 (1723)
• Philippines
26 Aug 09
I am a Catholic and i have friends who are priests and they too do not like the idea of Catholic priests to be married. I have nothing against women to be ordained as priests but for me, women should not be ordained as priests. I think our Catholic church is best left as it is, just my opinion.
@p1kef1sh (45638)
26 Aug 09
That's a traditional opinion Sweetie. But how does the Church respond to falling numbers of men coming forward for the priesthood?
@gabs8513 (48710)
• United Kingdom
26 Aug 09
To be honest I really don't know P1ke, I mean in my eyes the Family should always come first and I am sure that is how God intended it to be He creates and this is what he wanted to create so I guess yes a Priest should get married as long as the Wife realizes and accepts how her married Life is going to be But that is just my Opinion
@p1kef1sh (45638)
26 Aug 09
A perfectly valid opinion too Gabs. I think pretty much along those lines too.
@Hatley (164226)
• Garden Grove, California
26 Aug 09
hi pikey oh yes I think p riests should be allowed to marry even though I am not a catholic but a protestant. that way they could keep themselves honest. when I tried to become a nurse in a catholic school for nurses,big mistake for a protestant,but anyway I found out that some of the priests were how shall I say this,less than celibate.so my suggestion is let them marry instead so maybe they wont play around i have always thought women should be ordained and let them become acceptable first.just my opinions as i tred lightly around the subject of religion, and smoking and politics specially poliics
@p1kef1sh (45638)
26 Aug 09
The bottom line is that even priests are human Hatley. They an give in to temptation as easily as your or me.
@novataylor (6570)
• United States
26 Aug 09
Knowing nothing at all about the catholic church, I'll still throw out an opinion here, if ya don't mind. I figure that priests will be allowed to marry before women are allowed to be priests. It's sexism, plain and simple. And the church needs to be able to keep its priests, so better to let them marry than lose them altogether. Hey, a happy priest is a godly priest, eh?
@p1kef1sh (45638)
26 Aug 09
But is celibacy (male or female) not more important Nova. That way you give yourself entirely to God.
26 Aug 09
Hi p1key, I think priest should be allowed to get married as it is naturel and at the moment its going against nature what the catholic has done, also women should be ordain as women are just as equal to a man. Why not? Hugs. Tamara xxxx
@p1kef1sh (45638)
26 Aug 09
I can't quarrel with that Tamara. That's my view too. XXXX
@guybrush (4660)
• Australia
26 Aug 09
I think priests should be allowed to marry. After all, it's good enough for Anglican ministers, and they're not all going to hell in a handbasket (no more than the rest of us, anyway). The celibacy thing is probably appropriate for monks and nuns in closed orders, but I think where religious leaders are dealing with a congregation it would help to have an understanding of 'normal' relationships.
@p1kef1sh (45638)
26 Aug 09
Maybe they all are Guy. LOL. I truly don't know. But it seems to me that it has to be one way or the other.