Wouldn't the message be heard better if the messager was less rigid?

United States
September 14, 2009 12:31pm CST
I was watching The View this morning and I heard Joy quote her feminist friend. Her frind said that the higher the heels a woman wears the shorter the consciences. I thought that was the wrong thingto say if you really wanted young women to be feminists.I took it as she was saying Real feminists don't wear heels. And if a woman does wear heels , she couldn't be a real feminist. I thought that was wrong on both counts. i personally see myself as a female -male chauvinist so I really don't care if thereare less feminists or not but to me it semed a stupid move. You really don't want yung women to choose between fashion and feminsm. many may just pick fashion.Your thoughts.
1 person likes this
7 responses
@nowment (1758)
• United States
14 Sep 09
When I was young, I had said something that maybe if I had a different parent would have gotten me in a great deal of trouble, but instead of telling me what I said was wrong, [the opinion and view point was valid] my mom corrected me on HOW I said what I did. Instilling in me the lesson that often it is not what you say but how you say it. Well I do think WHAT you say is very important, but that HOW you say it is equally important. So you have a good point here, the way it is phrased from what you have said is insulting to women who like to wear heels. While I personally do not like to wear heels I prefer barefooting to be honest, it doesn't mean I am illiterate, or with out conscious. The clothes a person wears their choices in style is not a determining factor in whether or not they have either intelligence or a conscious. By this statment it seems to me that the person who would say it is saying that women who wear heels are lacking in conscious and I would have a problem accepting the view points of this person in general. The person who made this statement may not be but comes across as being judgemental and opinionated to the point of disregarding the opinions and views of others. It seems that if someone can share their views with out demeaning and belittling someone else then that is the person more likely to be listened to. Interestingly enough if you take a dictionary definition of conscience then this "feminist" is saying that women who wear heels are lacking or short on moral or ethical judgement. Well ok if you knowingly wear shoes made in a sweatshop where child labor or other abusive labor conditions exist then yes you are with out conscience, however wearing high heels in general how does that make a person with out conscience. Not only is the statment petty, judgemental, and biased, it makes little to no sense what so ever. It does nothing to promote the concept of a woman's independence and having faith in her skills, strengths and abilities, which I would think would be the idea behind promoting something of the feminist idea. I do not see it as picking fashion or not, I know of a woman who even wore high heel slippers. It so happened that she was 4'11 and so wore 3 inch or more heels on everything she wore simply to add to her height and add to her reach.
3 people like this
@coffeebreak (17811)
• United States
15 Sep 09
I pretty much agree with you on the "how it is said" making the difference. IF it is said in an insulting or demeaning or berating way.. then I'd have to say ... "forget you... If doing things "your way" makes me act like you, I'm doing what I want no matter what you say". I also wouldn't have any respect for what they said or for them themselves. If you are trying to "convert" someone to your way of thinking... honey draws more bees than vinegar!
1 person likes this
• United States
15 Sep 09
I re saw the clip and she said consciousness.
• United States
15 Sep 09
Being for the other side,it sounded so stupid. I thought feminists were for women ,all women.This one must Only be for women who fit her specific vision.Sorry, not every woman will fit.
@coffeebreak (17811)
• United States
15 Sep 09
I have to wonder if those that say things like that, only are saying them cause they can't do it or wear it or whatever the situation is. I have to wonder if they don't wear heels cause they don't look good in them, can't walk in the high heels, can't handle the fit of the shoe.. whatever their reason, they can't wear high heels. So instead of just saying I dont' wear them cause I dont' like them... they have to put a spin on it and "blame" it on something else and hope everyone gets on the band wagon with you or at least...gives them a reason for not wearing heels when MANY other women do! I'd also have to ask... what difference does it make what a feminists wears? WHy can't they wear what makes them feel good about themselves? If I have to wear something just cause someone says I have to or I am not "one of them".. I'd rather not be "one of them". And since I love wearing high heels since I was 16 (about 35 years ago!) and feel really good about my self and how I look and just enjoy the heck out of a beautiful pair of shoes.... I will wear my high heels!
• United States
15 Sep 09
I am not a feminist, far from it.I never learned to wear heels.I am a grown up tom boy. To this day, half of my clothes are men's clothes.I would Never demean a talented woman, and I mean talented,who can wear and walk in heels.I guess because I never wear dresses or heels or make up,Joy's friend would assume I am a feminist . Well she'd wrong.
1 person likes this
• Canada
15 Sep 09
And I wear nothing buy skirts and dresses because they are comfortable. I dress very plainly, and the only person I've met who dressed more modestly than I do, was wearing a religious head covering! LOL I don't dress that way because I'm by any way prudish, I dress that way because it's comfortable. The ironic thing is that by their definition you probably look like more of a feminist than I do. hahahahahahahahahahaha
@coffeebreak (17811)
• United States
19 Sep 09
I never even owned a pair of pants until the 8th grade andt hen only to wear to school under my dress on snow days. Got my first pair of slacks inthe 9th grade, made my own for the next 4 years, never owned a pair of jeans! Always in a skirt casue I think that is what I looked nicest in, felt the best and more confident. And always with heels!
@jillhill (37377)
• United States
14 Sep 09
That isn't the brightest think I have ever heard.....of course you have to remember that some of the feminists....aren't very girly....it doesn't matter to me what someone wears....it's what comes out of their mouths that counts!
3 people like this
• United States
15 Sep 09
Same here. To me it seemed like she was dismissing most women Just because of their clothes. It's soo stupid!
@Angelwriter (1955)
• United States
15 Sep 09
I consider myself a feminist and I hate heels. Even so, the idea that you can't be a feminist if you wear heels is idiotic to me. There are a lot of views on feminism and not even feminists all agree on everything, but last time I checked, there's no dress code that you have to agree to in order to be part of the club. And, any young woman who considers herself a feminist but gets the idea from this friend that she has to choose between that and heels? I'd tell her, "No you don't have to choose. That woman didn't right the rulebook on feminism."
3 people like this
• Canada
14 Sep 09
I am as big a feminist as you will ever meet. The problem that I have with high heels, married names, Miss to Mrs. (what does Mr. become?), man has head of household, makeup, gendered language (why do we say "you guys" to a group of people who clearly are not all male?, and MANkind?), is th ROOTS of all of these traditions, and the fact that when people like me try to break them, I'm looked at as a kind of a freak!!! IF tradition vs. choice could be more clearly emphasized, then it would be different, but with our "that's just how it is" mentality, how can I tell a woman who wears makeup because she thinks she needs to, versus a really good makeup artist who wears it because she's creative? How can we tell the difference between a woman who does something because it's right for her, vs. one who does it because "it's the feminine" thing to do? I AM A FEMINIST, but I am not going to say that that's not the feminist thing to do. I will, however, educate, and say "you don't need to wear heels unless you are totally comfortable in them" or I'll ask WHY someone would be comfortable in them, because I really WANT TO KNOW WHY. Take my friend Tori, for example. HIGH heels, pointed toes. My feet hurt, just thinking about those shoes. It became the running joke between us, but I didn't go around telling her not to wear them. No one ever asked me why I didn't wear them (I'm legally blind and walk with a cane! Woudln't it be dangerous?) but I have been bugged for not changing my name when I got married. Whether it's certain feminists pushing, or non-feminists pushing, as long as women still do things that were once symbols of opression, people will object. As long as women who do not see these things as symbols of opression see women changing the status quo they too will object. The problem in all this is that female opression still exists. if it did not, there would be no problems. My question is not how do we get women out of high-heels, it's "how do we stop opressing women?" What do you think?
2 people like this
• United States
15 Sep 09
Well I must be more of a feminist than I thought.I saw this statement as telling women What they Had to look like to b Real feminists.I thought it was strange that a feminist couldn't accept a woman who Likes heels and makeup. And I thought that type of view would turn young women off being a feminist. I never learned to wear heels or makeup. I guess in Joy's friend's eyes I look like a feminists but I'm not. Never will be. ps. you are not freak to me,.You have your views and you stand by them.And not wearing heels is your choice. Believe it or not ,there are blind people who wear heels.
@Qaeyious (2361)
• United States
15 Sep 09
Heh - I'm glad I'm a man. I just where what fits. I even wash them every once in a while
1 person likes this
• United States
15 Sep 09
So do I.I never learned how to walk in heels.I live in t-shirts and jeans.
@prinzcy (5034)
• Malaysia
14 Sep 09
If she said, a woman with heels is less feminist, then it make a woman with make up is less feminist as well. Does this conclude only a real woman wear both make up and heels and the one that is real feminist could care less to be a real woman? That's ridiculous. I love both make up and heels but it doesn't mean that I am not feminist.
1 person likes this
• United States
15 Sep 09
That's the way I heard it and I couldn't believe it.
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