A modest proposal

That would work in some cases, but you need to keep in mind women change. Let's say a 17 year old girl gets pregnant by being irresponsible. She knows she's too young to care for the child, and is a bit selfish about not wanting to be ridiculed at school and have the whole world know she's pregnant (there goes her adoption option) so she chooses abortion. Your theory would have her sterilized, but in 5-10 years she could be married with a great career and have so much to offer a child, yet she was sterilized for a mistake she made in her youth and can never have a child of her own. You're right, in a perfect world abortion would be unneccessary, but that's not the world we live in. In case it's not obvious, I'm pro-choice, but I don't agree with women who have multiple abortions. I do believe abortion is a selfish choice in many cases, and that's dispicable, but what would happen to these women and children if abortion weren't an option?? That's precisely why I am pro-choice!

You don't need your flak jacket Dawn, but I have to disagree on this one. Maybe you'd better pass your flak jacket to me, though, because I believe abortion at any stage, including immediately after conception, is murder. That is MY opinion and I apply it to me, but I also hold that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and as long as an action is not against the law of the land, I have no right to object to what others believe or do.

Okay - so the mother could have an abortion if they SPAY the B*TCH right after? works for me - dogs should be treated like dogs... now, I know a lady who had a son who they said would die within a few days, maybe up to a month and even if he DID live, he would only have the ability to function at an infant's level. That was about 30 yrs ago, and while he was definitely not functioning at a the same level as an undamaged baby, he was WAY above an infant. He also can't walk and is now blind, but he was never as retarded as the doc's told her he would be. I do believe that mother's life and rape are acceptable reasons, tho even then they should be counseled because it isn't the baby's fault the mother was raped, and a lot of women who's lives are endangered by the unborn baby actually want that child and they need all the help they can get. I worked for years with an adoption registry, and heard at least one case where a woman was raped. This was before abortion was legal, but she worked for the Air Force and they offered to give her one, but she chose to place the child for adoption because while she didn't want to keep the baby. She couldn't blame the baby for the rapist's actions (the rapist actually murdered her friend before her eyes.)

hi dawnald you have really put some thought into this and I find myself agreeing with your ideas. if it could be implemented it would'sure save a lot of grief.. I hate it when women are careless'and have a dozen guys and keep using abortion as a method of birth' control. they act like female dogs so why not spay them.?I also think that a woman should not hAve to carry a rapist's child..

Okay but that's not abortion that is induced labor.. for number 4.. "4) Where the child is unwanted, but only up to the point where the child could possibly live outside the womb" As for the sterilization portion.. ouch... As far as im concerned no need to duck for cover and run lol because this is just your opinion no one can judge you on that right? I agree with all of what you said except the last part about sterilization... why? Well.. first off im not condoning premarital relations.. not in the least.. but some teens get pregnant too young and don't want a child then. Does that mean because they made a stupid choice (now im ducking) that they should be punished for it for the rest of their natural lives? When they get married or IF that is the course they do choose.. what if they want kids?? Here is the thing.. 3 and 4 sort of go hand in hand because a rape victim who doesn't want a child also would be considering this course of action. Does that mean she has to be sterilized? In your opinion.. just curious.. Abortion is a personal choice.. but in my humble opinion after week 8 it shouldn't be allowed at all. It boils me when i think of people getting an abortion at week 20 and up (read that some lady had at week 20.. when is it NOT allowed??). In some of the conditions you described, danger for the mother that i can grasp. I to am in favor of personal responsibility. Why? If you are grown enough to go into that aspect of a relationship then you are grown enough to handle the outcome that simple. Someone who doesn't want a baby because it doesn't suit their career or some other hogwash doesn't at all settle with me. Have the kid give it up for adoption. Case closed. Or as you said.. induce labor in month 7 .. many if not all month 7 babies survive with the development of medicine. It just AHHH... yeah you got my blood boiling on this fine day lol

First off I like the way you presented this and that you are getting good input back. That can be hard in such a topic. I have to agree with your points here. 1) when the mother is in danger, such as a tubular pregnancy, I agree whole heartedly. 2) There is a fine line here and think that would have to be monitored. Taking this a step further some babies are born with conditions that are critical but can be corrected through surgery. The heart outside the body cavity is a good example of that. I din't think that instance should be left up to limited funds by a person because it's easier. Just my opinion. 3) I agree also if this is the mother's personal choice. Some cases they want to up the baby up for adoption but have seen where it was a repeat of the event that actually hurts the mother over and over again because she has a nine month reminder of it. I think that is personal choice. 4) I have some mixed feelings. If this is a teen, then what? If it is one mistake I can understand the the personal choice becuase they aren't ready. If it is a form of oh well I'll just have an abortion as part of a birth control thing then I say fix them because that is just wrong on so many levels. That is saying they are irrisponsible period. I also think that woman that just pop out child after child is a form of abuse on the woman's body. There are times when a man has been fixed and his wife still gets pregnant and then she got her tubes tied and then she still gets pregnant. I've seen that happen with a couple I know. They were done at 2 children and then still had two more after he was fixed and then she was. Here the parents are taking responsibility, but then a more drastic way of preventing more pregnancies needs to take place, like removing the overies or the big H. I do not agree with couples that just consider abortion as a way to stop having another child. There are means out there for them to prevent (aside from the rare cases like above) but I don't understand why a person would just go have an abortion because they weren't taking the proper measures not to have a baby to begin with. That again, to me, is wrong.

All sounds good to me. I am anti abortion but agree with the scenarios you describe. I have even encouraged a woman to have an abortion as she already had four children under 8 and her health was seriously threatened by another pregnancy. I thought it was best for her other children to grow up with a mother. The last one is what should happen so people cannot use abortion as a form of birth control. There, at least one person hasn't shot you down in flames.

in the end, it's all about the mother's choice. if she doesn't want the child, but gets forced to keep it, she will resent the child born. is that kind of life really worth it? if I got pregnant I would listen to no one and do what I want. many mothers will choose to keep the baby even if it threatens their own life, or if it's going to be born with disabilities. it all comes down to the mother, in the end.

And the first barrage of stone, brimstone and fire comes from the little baby foetus. " Don't I have the right to live ? " He or she asks. " Even if that murderous guy raped you to get me I stiil want to get born and live. " Then another one says : " I know you can't feed me but I'd like to try and live to see if the neighbours or somebody God sends will bring milk and stuff for me. " Yet another says : " Please don't sterilize my mom, she needs me to take care of her when she gets old and sick and I love her too. " THINK ABOUT THAT !

[i]So in our imperfect world, here is my modest proposal. Allow abortion under the following conditions: 1. Where the mother's life is in danger 2. Where the baby is damaged to the point where it will die 3. Where the mother was raped 4. Where the child is unwanted, but only up to the point where the child could possibly live outside the womb, and only under the conditions that the mother allow herself to be sterilized immediately [/i] I copied and pasted this to make it easier for me to respond I like your ideas here because I think and feel along the same lines. I think it would be most excellent if people could ONLY have WANTED children and that they could ONLY get pregnant IF they were in a committed relationship (even if they were not married) and ONLY if they were independent ie living together on their own without reliance on other people like parents, family, or the government. Yes, I realize that is also a utopian theme but it would be BEST because then the couple could provide for the baby and the baby would be something the couple was looking forward to, both things I think are integral to the success of a new family. 1. I agree fully with abortion if the mother's life is in danger, unless she had already expressed a desire to continue with the pregnancy no matter what. In something like this, it's important to get an advance directive and have someone like a husband or partner to understand and share and execute the wishes of the mother with medical personnel. 2. If the baby has no chance of living beyond birth or is likely to be stillborn or have such severe physical or mental disabilities that they'd be a literal vegetable, again I believe it should be up to the parents with input from their doctors or specialists, and abortion should be an option. Some couples will choose to meet their child anyway, even if they only get to see and hold them for a little while. 3. With rape you have the whole 'assault' issue and then unasked for pregnancy. This can be horribly physically and emotionally harmful for a lot of women, who are still trying to come to terms with having been attacked and violated. It certainly makes sense to offer the woman a way out since she wasn't given a choice prior to the situation she is now in. Keep in mind some women may not believe in ending a life, even if she was violated and assaulted in order for that life to begin. 4. With this one, I think it is important to look at the type of home situation the unwanted child would be born into. Whether it's because they are conceived because birth control failed or it was an accident because somebody FORGOT birth control, whether they are a couple who eventually wanted children but just 'not now' vs a couple who NEVER intended to be parents AT ALL, whether the couple is very young, ie teenage and still living at home, or a couple who is almost retirement age, ie early 50s and already has grown kids... I mean there are so many different scenarios. I think if the mother and/or parents NEVER want to be parents or they are deemed to be dependent drains on society, sterilization would be a good idea. If they are past the point where the baby could survive, then the baby could go to an adoptive family upon birth and immediately be adopted with the biological parents signing off all rights to said child upon birth. I also believe that illegal immigrants who receive ANY type of assistance ought to be sterilized - unless they are completely financially responsible for themselves... I do not believe this country should pay for the costs of children who aren't supposed to be here.

Dawn, I guess my feelings on the matter for myself is that it's murder but my feelings for others is that they have the right to choose and the responsibility to live with that choice. If I was faced with the choice of a terribly damaged child I might very well choose the abortion after all I would do that for any animal. But I would feel this was my right to choose along with anyone else. I live with the results of two abortions that my daughter chose to have and I have seen what this has done to her life, she has never forgiven or forgotten those unborn children. So never would I support this decision lightly.

I cannot see any part of abortion as a positive; I respect other’s views and I do not condemn nor criticise anyone who has had an abortion. I personally don’t see it as the right thing to do; even under the circumstances you’ve mentioned. If a woman was raped it is perfectly understandable she may not want the baby but it is not the child’s fault he or she is a product of nasty evil and should be entitled to a normal, happy life. Certainly if it came down to the child or the mother…That makes it tough and I would appreciate a husband who would choose his wife over the child. If the child is so very sick I would let nature take its course once all medical avenues have been exhausted. And as far as not wanting the child there is such a thing as adoption. These are not easy options but they are better than the killing an unborn baby.

#1) yes, absolutely if the mother is any danger. #2) Yes, absolutely #3) Yes, absolutely #4) yes and no, the question is to broad for one answer. see my post in box #2 for more info

This proposal's a non-starter for me. The state has no business deciding what's an acceptable reason to have an abortion.