Has politics invaded science?

@debrakcarey (19887)
United States
November 12, 2009 9:16am CST
I try to always look at both sides of any story before I make up my mind. Seems logical to do so. Isn't it necessary to do so when you claim to have any knowledge on any subject? Most certainly scientific knowledge. I learned back in grade school about the 'scientific method'. Make an observation. Ask a question. Formulate a hypothesis. Conduct an experiment using a control group and an experimental group. Analyze data and draw a conclusion. What is happening in science when one scientist draws different conclusions from the data than other scientists? Why are we so trusting of 'scientific' pronouncements? Is it because we have limited knowledge and must trust them? Why don't we look into the 'other side of the story' more often, rather than take anyones word, no matter how many letters come after their name. Are we lazy or are we gullible? And why is it that if someone disagrees and has data to prove their differing conclusion, so many are ridiculed and denied money to further their research? Is this not counter productive if we are REALLY looking for truth, which is what science is suppose to be all about, right? Textbooks present science as a noble search for truth, in which progress depends on questioning established ideas. But for many scientists, this is a cruel myth. They know from bitter experience that disagreeing with the dominant view is dangerous - especially when that view is backed by powerful interest groups. Call it suppression of intellectual dissent. The usual pattern is that someone does research or speaks out in a way that threatens a powerful interest group, typically a government, industry or professional body. As a result, representatives of that group attack the critic's ideas or the critic personally-by censoring writing, blocking publications, denying appointments or promotions, withdrawing research grants, taking legal actions, harassing, blacklisting, spreading rumors. My question is do you think that scientific conclusions should be made based on consensus or raw data? What should happen when two scientists come up with differing conclusions? Here are some wise words from Michael Crichton spoken at Cal Tech. "I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science. I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you're being had. Let's be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus. There is no such thing as consensus science. If it's consensus, it isn't science. If it's science, it isn't consensus. Period." He goes on to list instances of scientific consensus that ultimately proved to be wrong. One such instance is when nuclear bombs were dropped on Japan, many scientists made the pronouncment that nothing would grow for decades on those spots. In fact, vegatables were grown the next year. Here's the link to his whole speech if you're interested: http://www.s8int.com/crichton.html
2 people like this
6 responses
• United States
13 Nov 09
Reading scientific studies is an art. Casual observer read summarys and news reports which give a rundown of conclusions. More interested and more educated folks read the studies themselves, but focus on the conclusions. Experts in the field spend a long time reading the methods of the experiment before they trust the conclusion. Unforotunately we cannot all read every study critically so there is a need for us to trust others, and we learn very quickly who we can trust. Because science can never prove something to be true (things can be proven false, but never universally true) Because of this there becomes a point where widespread trust in consistant results from multiple tests becomes common knowledge or even Law. This consensus is valid in the scientific community only if it is reached by persuasion rather than stifling debate.
1 person likes this
• United States
13 Nov 09
Depends on who comissions the report. There has been evidence of data produced by government agencys being discarded because it didn't follow party lines. In particular with global warming there were a couple of guys whos research was burried because they concluded that there was no evidence of man made global warming
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
13 Nov 09
How about consensus being reached by bribery and data being discarded by blackmail? You think this happens?
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
13 Nov 09
Does this bother you? I think that when science steps into the role of policy setting it is over stepping it's bounds. I feel it has become the 'priesthood' of the new world order. By that I mean we are asked to take their word, on faith, and act accordingly or be insulted, sometimes even punished and made to feel 'outside' of society. What say you?
@DavidReedy (2378)
• United States
19 Nov 09
Very interesting article. Could apply to anything. I don't know much about Crichton, those are some awesome words, though. I've always been fond of Sagan,if I had to choose a scientist, or if I could choose a group of scientists, though, I'd have to go with those quantum physicists, some of which with enthusiasm and some of which with reluctance, are espousing and extoling findings that easily suggest a higher consciousness invovled. It's beautiful stuff. I wonder about the aforementioned vegetables, though,--safe to eat? Yeah, awesome posting, both great advice for would-be scientists and the public at large.
• United States
21 Nov 09
"The Science of God"--I'll have to look that up. thanks for that.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
19 Nov 09
I feel the same as you do. And am also especially interested in the science of Physics for that same reason! I'm trying to find the book titled 'The Science of God'. My neice recommended it to me, I've forgot the author...but I'm sure I can find it at Amzon.com if I search. Perhaps you know of it. It explains how both the creation story and the scientific explanation are correct according to physics. I was looking for something else when I stumbled upon the lecture by Crichton. Glad I did.
• United States
13 Nov 09
Most scientists work for the government. Government is controlled by politicians. Politicans make their real money manipulating the government to favor those who contribute the money to get the politicians elected. Therefore, it took the corrupt scaliwag politicans about 2 seconds to realize it would be possible to control science through manipulating the government to hatch schemes to make money. That is what is going on.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
13 Nov 09
jb is off looking for rabbit conspiracies....got anything that might help her? btw....you are right on with your accessment as far as I'm concerned.
@Destiny007 (5805)
• United States
12 Nov 09
Science by consensus is not science... it is political activism. Anyone who proclaims the science is settled on any given issue is not talking abut science. Science is a never ending pursuit of knowledge which uses educated guesses called theories. Man made global warming is nothing more than a theory7 which has been mostly disproven despite the proclamations that the science has been settled. Usually, when theories are disproven, they are rejected. In cases like this, they are turned into a political agenda.
@jb78000 (15139)
13 Nov 09
destiny007 - accidently left comment for you in box underneath.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
13 Nov 09
And so have many other 'theories' but I'll leave that one alone!
1 person likes this
@dragon54u (31636)
• United States
14 Nov 09
Crichton was right. I can't believe how much junk science there is out there and how political it is. I always try to investigate everything before I decide to believe it. Science can be wrong if you don't follow good methods and results can be skewed. I wish people would investigate for themselves. Like my grandma always said, don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you read!
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
14 Nov 09
I believe that there is a concerted and purposeful effort to sway the minds and opinions of people. It is becoming more and more obvious everyday. It becomes more and more difficult to find information anywhere, that is not bent and twisted to fit a political agenda.
@bwindsor (25)
• United States
12 Nov 09
The problem is that all education at any point is at a transition phase. We must take a deep breath and trust each other until there is evidence so obvious and pronounced that we much change things. On a small side note about the textbooks, this is one of the main reasons why the idea of digital textbooks is becoming so popular since it takes roughly TEN years for new information is added or old information is corrected in a textbook then a further year or so to reach actual students. Digital textbooks can make changes and additions a great deal easier. Usually a span of months is all of the time that is needed. Consensus is merely part of academic life. Some people have to agree with each other or we would never get anywhere. And while a handful of scientists make a career of disagreeing with each other so as to formulate their own hypotheses, politicians kind of do the same. I mean there are hundreds of political parties in the United States because people disagree. Even within the parties people can argue with each other--just look at the democrats going at each others throats about the health care bill. However, a balance of consensus and conflict is truly what makes the world go around. Even the human brain acts through the process of disagreeing with itself until it reaches a plausible answer that seems most reasonable.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
12 Nov 09
The trouble is not in consensus in and of itself, it is in those who silence an opposing voice with ridicule and by holding monetary support to those who do not agree. There is even some who claim murder has taken place within the scientific community to silence those who disagree with the consensus. There will always be differing opinions. It is what makes the world go round, so to speak. But should those whom we trust for truth be allowed to silence those who have drawn differing conclusions? If science IS the search for truth, it should be that every voice is given equal footing and consideration? I'm glad you brought up textbooks...they are the main focus of some 'special interest' groups within science. While I agree that we must be very careful what is in the textbooks our children use or our future doctors and such use....if you look into how, what and why certain things make it into the textbooks and what doesn't make it...you would be surprised. Talk about special interests!
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
12 Nov 09
btw, welcome to myLot!
1 person likes this