Trying as an adult

@dawnald (85147)
Shingle Springs, California
November 19, 2009 10:45am CST
I read an article in today's paper about a 15 year old girl who had killed a 9 year old neighbor. When asked why, she said, "because I wanted to know how it felt." They are going to try her as an adult. So my question is, why try a child as an adult? Obviously she isn't an adult. In this part of the world she can't drive, vote, quit school, enlist, etc. The legal line for pretty much everything except consumption of alcohol is 18. Not to say that somebody is more mature at 18 years and zero days than somebody who is 17 years and 364 days, but you have to draw the line somewhere. But 15? The purpose of trying somebody as an adult is obvious, I think - harsher penalties. In California, a child as young as 14 can be tried as an adult for certain more serious crimes. Do you think it's right to try somebody who's younger than the legal age as an adult? If yes, where is the line drawn in your mind? Is it the child's maturity? Prior record? Severity of the crime? Mental state? Does parental responsibility factor into this at all for you? In California, parents can be held civilly or criminally responsible for their child's behavior. Should the authorities be required to prove neglect before they can punish the parents? And when do the two become mutually exclusive? Is it a contradiction in terms to prosecute parents for letting their child run wild and yet still prosecute the child as an adult?
8 people like this
28 responses
@thea09 (18305)
• Greece
19 Nov 09
I'd say it is right to try her as an adult. In the UK two children were tried as children for the murder of a toddler and now they are free under new identities. The lack of conscience in this type of crime indicates severe sociapathic problems which will not disappear when the girl becomes of adult age.
5 people like this
@zed_k4 (17589)
• Singapore
19 Nov 09
I'm with Thea on this one...
1 person likes this
@jennybianca (12912)
• Australia
20 Nov 09
I agree too. I know about that terible murder. The rumour is that one or both boys were sent to Australia under new identities.
1 person likes this
@thea09 (18305)
• Greece
20 Nov 09
They were certainly cossetted and protected far more than normal children. I don't know their ages now but they should be serving a sentence for murder in an adult prison.
1 person likes this
@jennybianca (12912)
• Australia
20 Nov 09
This is a very good discussion and I wish I had more time to spend on it, but its after midnight here. Our laws may be slightly different. It would be unusual for a teenager under 18 to be tried as an adult. Unfortunately though, if a 15 year old was tried as a child, she would only get the youth detention centre. For the murder this girl did, & her reason for doing it, I would be very, very concerned. Its her reason that worries me more. There is something seriously wrong with this girl. Yes, it may be her background, & yes, her parents can & should be held partially responsible. This girl has no sense of right or wrong, no sense of guilt... that in itself leads me to believe that she is seriously physchotic. Yes, try her as an adult. She may well be found criminally insane anyway. Either way, she needs to be put in a secure facility for a long time, and to receive thorough mental asssment. It may well be her parents fault, but at age 15, she is not going to change in the near future, if at all.
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
20 Nov 09
I suspect she isn't treatable, whatever's wrong with her. She probably does need to be put away for the safety of the community.
• Australia
19 Nov 09
WOW! Thought provoking questions is the right place for it! I guess the line is drawn at 18 and as you say, must be drawn somewhere. It seems though, that in California, they have made other considerations to that rule and made allowance for some younger than 18 to be tried as adults. I think that is a good rule and no doubt much "testing" of the girl was carried out before the decision was made. Without knowing all the facts of the case, and going merely on the information here, I'd say she SHOULD be tried as an adult. Her statement discloses a very troubling situation which raises questions: Does she have a mental problem? Evidently! Were the parents aware of it? or did they ignore it? Has she been treated for it? (if so, it would have been reported?) Has she been exposed to a great deal of time playing violent electronic games or similar things? Again the parents should have been aware. Have the parents noticed a change in behaviour? Or has she always had these tendencies? Unless there is a definite medical problem which has only just surfaced, the parents must share the guilt. If the medical problem has not just developed (I don't think that type of problem does) and has been ignored by the parents, they share the guilt. If she has been having treatment, shouldn't the medical team have foreseen something like this? There are many questions to be asked before deciding whether or not the parents should be held partly responsible, and as an onlooker without the facts, I am pleased it isn't my decision, but I tend to at least partly blame the parents.
• Australia
19 Nov 09
I have just read that this crime was very premeditated. It was planned and carried out with decision and purpose.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
20 Nov 09
This one actually took place in Missouri. There is one going on here in my county though, a young girl who conspired with her boyfriend to kill her mother after the mother had the boyfriend arrested for statutory rape. This week was a hearing to determine whether she will be tried as an adult. Apparently she is claiming that the boyfriend was abusive and controlling. At any rate, I read that the judge considers the circumstances of the crime, the person's mental state, their testimony, etc. to make the determination. In the Missouri case, I really do wonder if there wasn't some sort of abuse or neglect and if there were any signs that the parents could have picked up on.
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
20 Nov 09
This is a really tough question, dawnald. I have a 15 yr old daughter. I am thinking that if she went so far as to commit murder just to see how it felt then she must have some serious mental issues that should be addressed. I know some parents do let their kids run wild but most do not turn into murderers as a result. When a young person commits a crime as serious as murder then there is more than likely something else going on in their life that needs to be paid attention to. Then there are the victim's family to consider. I really don't know what the right answer to this.
1 person likes this
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
21 Nov 09
It is really sad, dawnald & you really had me doing some deep thinking earlier. I don't understand these young people that have so little value for human life and their lack of compassion just blows me away. Where does that come from? There is so very much of it these days. It wasn't always this way.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
20 Nov 09
I don't either, but I'm sure the judge weighed all the evidence pretty carefully before making the decision to try her as an adult. Sad....
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
21 Nov 09
I'm sure there were always people like that, but not as many. And the ones there were used to be dealt with pretty quickly..
1 person likes this
@zed_k4 (17589)
• Singapore
19 Nov 09
My thoughts are mostly like others too. If she is able to do adult-like crimes, then she must be prepared to receive adult sentences too. I don't think parents should be blamed, because they are not the ones doing the crimes. Unless it is like intentional on their part and instigating their child to do it..
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
20 Nov 09
What if the parents are never home and totally allowed the child to run amok?
1 person likes this
@zed_k4 (17589)
• Singapore
23 Nov 09
Not all kids would resort to killing if left like that. Parents are to blame for neglecting, but the hands that do the deed; is always the guilty party..
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
24 Nov 09
You're right. My siblings and I ran pretty amok and none of us ever came close to killing anybody.
@ANTIQUELADY (36440)
• United States
19 Nov 09
I think how your child turns out is up to the parent. U sst the rules early & have have to abide by them. Making a child behave from an early age does not mean u don't love them in fact i think it's right the opposite. I always took it personally when my child misbehaved, i felt like i at failed them. I think at 15 a person knows right from wrong. This girl had to know that killing that child was wrong. I think she should be tried as an adult & PUNISHED LIKE ONE. i THINK HER PARENTS SHOULD BE RIGHT THERE W/HER. MAYBE IN FRONT OF HER.
1 person likes this
@ANTIQUELADY (36440)
• United States
19 Nov 09
I'm sorry i don't agree w/u. people were killing others a long time before there was tv & internet.
1 person likes this
@ANTIQUELADY (36440)
• United States
20 Nov 09
dAWN, I'M SURE THE GIRL HASN'T HAD A CHANCE FROM BIRTH BUT THAT STILL DOES NOT EXCUSE WHAT SHE DID. i T IS A VERY DAD STORY.
1 person likes this
• United States
19 Nov 09
They don't know where the parents are at this time. The girl had been living and had been raised by her grandma for the last nine years. So we can't totally blame the parents, because we don't understand why she had to live with her grandma yet. Blame t.v. and the internet. Where can a kid learn to kill someone these days??? The t.v. and internet.
2 people like this
@cher913 (25782)
• Canada
24 Dec 09
while parents raise their kids they cannot control every move their kids make, that would be wrong too. you want kids to develop and grow so they can be useful members of society.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
24 Dec 09
yes, you do and sometimes it is difficult to decide how much freedom to give them...
• United States
21 Nov 09
i would say the severity of the crime,with me. however they still should evaluate the mental status of the individual-some adults don't think on an adult level either. in the case of murder,"adult" should be used in the sense it doesn't automatically get wiped from their record at 18.that could be dangerous if they have serious issues and could do it again. we have a case local where the murderous former child has said point blank if he gets out,he would do it again.but as far as him thinking as an adult,i don't think he does.i think he has some clear and definetly bad wiring going on.i can't remember if they said if his home was abusive or not.
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
21 Nov 09
I"m sure the severity of the crime, whether it's pre-mediated, etc. etc. etc.
@katsmeow1213 (28716)
• United States
19 Nov 09
Wow that's a lot of questions! As far as trying a child as an adult, I don't really have any opinions on it. I guess they should probably create harsher punishments for children who commit serious crimes, so they can still be tried as a child... either way, the punishment should always fit the crime. This particular girl, sounds like she belongs in a mental hospital and not a jail! Should the parents be held responsible? Absolutely! I ALWAYS blame parents when I see or hear about children acting completely uncontrollably. But holding the parents responsible isn't enough. Someone else has to step in and teach the child that what they did is wrong.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
20 Nov 09
Maybe some kind of an in-between set of rules for minors that commit major offenses, idk. I wonder though, if you think the girl belongs in a mental hospital, why you think the parents should be held responsible? I think it depends on whether there's a family history of abuse or neglect. Some mental conditions are not created, you're born with them. So I just think it depends.
• United States
21 Nov 09
Something just isn't right in her head to kill someone just to see what it's like.. but having that mental disability doesn't make her parents any less responsible. Your child has a mental disability, correct? Do you expect him to kill someone just to see what it's like? Probably not.. why? Because you teach him right from wrong, and to respect life, and other people. You teach him values and morals. You spend time with him, you know what's going on in his day to day life. You'd see any sort of warning signs that he could become violent, and you'd do what you had to do to prevent anything from happening. You'd take him to councelors if you don't already. Now if he still commited a crime I'd say you are not responsible... but most parents are because they don't take that much time for their kids... whether or not the child has a disability or not!
@bunnybon7 (50973)
• Holiday, Florida
25 Nov 09
in this case i think it has to do with mental problems. im sorry, but i really dont think anyone is going to change if they are so far gone that they can and will kill just for the experience. from what i've read and heard,etc. a person like that can not be cured. if it didnt bother her, and obviously it didnt, nothing is going to cause her to have feelings for another persons pain and/or life. they put that Woodham boy behind bars for 140 yrs without parole. thats definately life!! because he killed his mom, then went to school and killed a couple other people. he was 16yrs. cant remember where it was but he is in the max security in Tennessee i believe. anyone like that should be put in a mental ward and never get out. they have no feelings and nothings going to give them a care. so they are dangerous to society.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
24 Dec 09
Sad, but you are probably right.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
21 Nov 09
This can be very confusing if you ponder on it. I think that it would be the severity of the crimes and I guess how calculated it was as to if I would think that a child should be tried as an adult.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
21 Nov 09
I'm sure the judge took both those things into consideration!
@trisha27 (3494)
• United States
21 Nov 09
I'm kind of unsure on this one. But then I would have to say it would have to depend on how harsh the crime was, on whether or not the child should be tried as an adult. Sometimes though, I think in certain cases, that the child shouldn't be tried as an adult and that maybe they need some type of counseling or something in that sort. But that is just my opinion.
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
21 Nov 09
I'm sure that's the major factor that the judge considers when making the decision.
@mylosha (286)
• India
20 Nov 09
ya it is child's abnormal mental stage as they watching and observing some adult films more obviously that make them such volgur, and thier parents also responsible for this. it should be condemnable.
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
20 Nov 09
Well that's why they're trying her as an adult, no doubt.
@samawati (140)
20 Nov 09
Being tried as an adult is really what should be done here cause otherwise you risk having another Ted Bundy or Son of Sam scenario. Children are quite impressionable why they are young , this one child one way or the other has been exposed to environments that have seeded the evil that caused her to do what she did. So far what I can assume is that this child is more grown up than any normal 15 year old , unless she is mentally ill which you dint mention so I assume the girl is of complete good health ...mentally and otherwise Bottom line is ..being tried as an adult is better cause it avoids any future time bombs waiting to happen when she is finally all grown up and can plan things on her own and further develop in her evil menace. Haven't any of you ever seen Dexter ..the TV series .... the hunger to kill is strong in this minor.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
20 Nov 09
Depends on what you mean by mentally ill. Far as I know, she didn't have a diagnosed mental condition, but somebody who does something like this isn't exactly right in the head either.
@KrauseHome (36448)
• United States
20 Nov 09
Well, this is quite interesting and personally makes you wonder about the Mental status of someone like this, and a little bit about their past as well. To do something like this to a neighbor at such a young age makes me wonder what type of things are behind this. Did the parents get along with this neighbor, or had they been saying Bad things about them, or was the child molested by the neighbor, etc. I am hoping they really examine this case well, and run some Mental evaluation tests on him as well. Something like this and a child getting charged as an adult at 15 does not sound right at all.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
20 Nov 09
I'm sure they did do some kind of a mental evaluation and that must have factored into the judge's decision. I wonder what's behind it also. She was living with her grandmother and one wonders what happened with her parents that she's living there.
@gabs8513 (48686)
• United Kingdom
19 Nov 09
To me it is right as she committed a severe crime and the excuse is so pathetic, a 9 year old lost their Life because this 15 year old wanted to know what it felt like to Kill? She deserves everything she gets she has ended a young Life and in my eyes why should she get away with it just because she is 15, she knew what she was doing as she said ' she wanted to know what it was like to kill ' so Adult or not she deserves a severe sentence Ok she is not able to drive and all that because she is not an adult, but she committed a really bad crime she ended a life, for the reason she did it is just awful, really awful There are no reasons to take Life, but this I have to say is terrible
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
20 Nov 09
It is really terrible. I think she may be mentally ill, but very likely in a way that can't be treated, and if so she shouldn't ever be let out...
@bryanwmc (1051)
• Malaysia
19 Nov 09
We cannot really make a fair judgment on this case based on a few sentences, just too many quetions as to why she did what she did,i think only a psychoanalyst can maybe get a rough grasp of the situation and perhaps judgement will be based on their recommendations,which is about the only way that can shed some light in an otherwise tragic and frightening affair. The punitive laws are designed for sane people who intentionally cross the line fully aware of their actions and possible consequences,consciously choosing to do the crime! This instance ,the fact that she took another human life just out of curiousity denotes a deeply warped mind,even a 9 year old have an instinctive feel of whats right or wrong, and taking of a life ,human or not, is a psychological line most sane people will not cross,Child,teen or adult alike. we just dont know do we,? was she born that way,unable to have a conscience due to some defect of the brain,or was she pressured into becoming a killer during her formative years growing up in a certain type of environment? Can we punish a person for being diseased.? Or do we punish the parents for giving birth to a physically challenged child ,because we would definitely hold them accountable if they intentionally cripple their own child. So b4 any thing,that has to be determined!
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
20 Nov 09
No, it's not enough information to make a judgement in this case. One would assume that the judge took into consideration the nature of the crime, the girl's mental state, the testimony of anybody who interviewed her, etc. etc before deciding to try her as an adult.
• United States
19 Nov 09
I watch Nancy Grace a lot and saw this case from the beginning. Yes, she should be tried as an adult because she not only stabbed this young nine year old girl, but also slit her throat, beat her, and then buried her... Which all had to be planned out. My boyfriend believes she is a reincarnation of a serial killer... I dunno where the parents were, but they said she had been raised by her grandma. Which means her grandma might of not set boundaries... There's a video on youtube of the girl and her friend shocking themselves on an electric fence. Nancy Grace aired the video last night, and you should be able to find it.
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
20 Nov 09
I'd be very interested in finding out why she was with the grandma.
@sunnycool (12714)
• India
20 Nov 09
she must be treated as an adult nd punished for the crime.the gore movies which are being made can also have an impact on the kids coz they think tat it would be really amazing if theye follow those played in the movies nd parents need to play an key role in raising kids so tat they dont commit these kind of offences.gud day.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
20 Nov 09
Would be interesting to find if she watches violent movies or plays violent video games.
@apierson (15)
• United States
20 Nov 09
From what I know of the general legal system, she should be evaluated by a psychologist, then her parents will also be evaluated by a psychologist and their home screened by CPS depending on the results of all 3 the child will either A) Be tried as an adult because they found no reason for mental instability in the child herself or in the home B) Be tried as a child because her mental state proves to be normal although immature for her age or C) Be committed to a mental rehabilitation hospital because her mental state was found to be completely insecure and unable to comprehend the gravity of not only the murder of the 9 year old child but of the sentencing in the trial as well. More than likely she is being tried as an adult because she truly did want to know what it felt like, which more than likely will make her a serial killer later in life so might as well strike while the iron is hot. Not to mention, no you arent an adult at 15 but your damn close enough to it to know you cant just go around killing people. I had a job and was paying bills at 15 and I never killed anyone. Provided she doesn't have the mental/emotional capacity of an 8 year old they have every right to try her as an adult. You commit an adult crime, expect to get adult punishment. This was no accident, she flat out confessed to doing it on purpose, this was premeditative murder. "In California, a child as young as 14 can be tried as an adult for certain more serious crimes." Uhhh - Tell me, does it really get any more serious then cold blooded murder??
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85147)
• Shingle Springs, California
20 Nov 09
Nope, it doesn't get more serious. And murder is one of the crimes listed along with rape and some others...