If....IF this is true then, we have a problem, a big problem...

@xfahctor (14118)
Lancaster, New Hampshire
December 17, 2009 1:59pm CST
***Please read this entire post and all responses carefully before responding. Also note that I am not ready to totaly believe this yet.***** I hesitated in going with this story. I am not one to jump on rumors, especialy rumors that carry as much signifigance as this. This one is exceptional however in that it is greatly signifigant if....again I say IF it is true. So far, there is the word of a senate aid, and two other unamed sources, something I am not very fond of myself. Let me set this up first... ****************Full disclosure.*************************** This was reported initialy in the weekly standard. Granted not what you would call a major news outlet and it is a conservative publication. Though it isn't exactly WND or a tabloid type publication either. The man breaking the story is the former communications director for the McCain campaign, Michael Goldfarb. ****************************************************************** Now, some, particularly the partisan types, will dismiss this out of hand, based entirely on all that alone with out considering the story or the history at all. I am hoping most will at least give this a "what if" thought or two. It has been reported that White House Chief of Staff, Rahm Emanual has threatened Senator Nelson (D), Nebraska, by telling him that a strategic command base in his state cou;d wind up on the closure list down the road if he doesn't play ball on healthcare. Senator Nelson has been insisting on a provision that would prevent federal funds being used for abortions under any national healthcare plan. The white house imediatly came out and flatly denied this was true. White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer said in a statement issued Wednesday night that the "rumor is absolutely false, as the people spreading it well know. This is nothing but a cynical, crass political game that is designed to maintain the status quo." If....yes again, I say if this is true. This would ammount to treason. A treason in fact that could result in a rare military arrest and trial of Emanual. It would also mean that thugs, have in fact made their way to the very top of our government, right under the presidents very nose. So, I am faced with a delema. First, my reasons for not buying that this actualy occured. 1. Strategic command is just that, strategic. It is where it is for a reason, a strategic reason. It is a very important and signifigantly and specificly purposed base. 2. It would be monumentaly stupid of someone, especialy someone that high up to make such a threat and risk military arrest, being tried and convicted of treason. 3. No open sources. 4. Senator Nelson himself denies it saying, "My vote cannot be bought and I cannot be threatened," he said, according to the Journal-Star. "If I had been threatened, I would have gone public with it. My vote is not for sale. Period." 5. As much as I disagree with Obama's policies, I do not want to believe for one second he would aprove of, engage in or even hire anyone who would engage in a crime as serious as blatent high treason. Now, why I am not totaly dismissing this out of hand. 1. We have seen tough tactics comming out of Obama's staff, even out of Obama himself. 2. We have seen the same tough tactics from others in recent times, such as the threats made to a few senators last year of martial law declaration over the resistence to T.A.R.P. 3. Obama and his politicaly like minded associates are becomming seemingly desparate to get some form of healthcare passed and soon. 4. Why would a man come out in the open and level this serious a charge, risking not only his journalistic career, but also charges of libel? If proven untrue, this would effectively end Goldfarbs career. 5. I have seen a lot of things in the last year and a half that a year and a half ago, I would called someone crazy for predicting, things that made my skin crawl and I would otherwise refused to believe had they not been demonstrated true and been done and said right out in the open. So......there it is. Again, I gave a lot of thought and did a lot of soul searching before posting this. Please do a lot of the same before responding and forming an opinion on it. And be nice to each other folks, we're not each others enemies, we are not adversaries. This isn't a partisan issue, this is an "us" issue and a very serious one.
6 people like this
9 responses
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
17 Dec 09
I agree that to believe it means believing that the White House is capable of using threats and intimidation to get what it wants. I have thought about it, and realize that I have already seen this administration do just that in more than one way. Whether it's telling the other networks to freeze Fox out of a press conference or asking citizens to rat out their neighbors by forwarding emails critical of health care reform to the White House, this administration has pulled some shady deals. The pressure from the left on Joe Liebermann and the campaign against his wife may not have been instigated by the White House, or it may have been. I simply haven't seen enough integrity out of them to not believe it. We've seen lots of money offered for votes (Mary Landrieu) and I am sure there's a lot of stimulus money that went to the districts of those who play nice with the White House. I can't really be sure that the opposite of a bribe, which is a threat, is impossible to lay at their feet. As for Senator Nelson's denial - if they threatened this over his vote, what would they threaten over disclosure of the threat? Apparently 20 Senators believe it is true and have called for an investigation. Something convinced them that it bears investigating. I think it bears investigating, too.
1 person likes this
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
18 Dec 09
I realize that seedy tactics have been being sed, it's why theres a tiny part of me that is wondering if this could be true. But this goes so far beyond even the disgusting tactics used so far that I am inclined to think this is a bit much even for this crowd. I don't know, lets just hope there is an investigation, such as some have already asked for and we can get to the bottom of it.
1 person likes this
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
21 Dec 09
After reading some of what Nelson agreed to and seeing that he has sold his vote while denying that the public outcry is real (he says the backlash is all manufactured), just the faintest feeling of "we've been had" creeps up on me and I start to wonder if the "source", the Senate aide who "leaked" the threat, wasn't preparing a kind of cover story for when Nelson sold his vote. Sure, he denies the threat, but won't some people think still that is what happened? I don't know, it's a terrible thing, but I don't put anything past these guys in the current climate.
@veromar (1453)
• Argentina
18 Dec 09
"It has been reported that White House Chief of Staff, Rahm Emanual has threatened Senator Nelson (D), Nebraska, by telling him that a strategic command base in his state cou;d wind up on the closure list down the road if he doesn't play ball on healthcare. Senator Nelson has been insisting on a provision that would prevent federal funds being used for abortions under any national healthcare plan." First, I don't see the threat here. Is it really considered a "threat" to say a base could be closed if Nelson doesn't vote the way Emanual wants him to on health care? Come on! This kind of crap has been going on for generations in U.S. politics. "You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours". Palm greasing. "Playing ball". It's all the same thing and is part of politics. Nelson is "threatening" too. By insisting on his provision, he won't give Emanual what he wants and he's probably asking for something in return from somebody else to get what he wants. Is that a "threat"?!?! So what if it's a strategic command base! Do you have any idea how many U.S. military bases have closed down not only in the U.S. but worldwide? I'm sure they were all considered strategic at some point. Not being from Nebraska, I have no idea why a military base there would be considered strategic. When people talk about base closures, it's more about how it will affect the local economy. Now, before anybody starts jumping on me after viewing my profile. Yes, I live in Argentina. However, I am an American expatriate. I come from a Marine Corps background. My father was an enlisted man and did 4 (yes, FOUR) stints in Nam. My brother is currently a U.S. Marine Corps Colonel and I can't even tell you how many times he's been to Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan. He even had his pic taken with McCain in Iraq. Semper Fi.
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
19 Dec 09
Well first, thank your father and brother for their service for me please. This isn't a scratch my back type of thing, it was a threat, a blatent threat, not a favor or a bribe (which is bad enough in itself). it is a threat leveled against a base which is in fact a pretty important one. It isn't Nelson's responsability to "give Emanual what he wants", he has no such obligation. Congress doesn't work for the white house. I have seen my senators cave to executive demands beforeand I have called them out for they cowards they are over it. they don't work for the predient, they don't answer to him, thats a pretty totalitarian mentality and should not even be on the table in this country. Now, as I stated in the beginning of my thread, I was not ready to believe this and did not want to believe it. However, it is an awefull strange coincidence that Nelson came out this morning and now magicly seems to be supprting it and has agreed to be the 60th vote for this to pass in the senate. I'm not a conspiricy theorist...but nor am I a coincidence theorist either.
@veromar (1453)
• Argentina
21 Dec 09
Ok. But what is the likelihood of that happening?
• United States
19 Dec 09
Does anyone really know what it is that is so important about the Nebraska Base? For one there are only certian areas that will be a perfect place to fire antiballistic missles to counter attacks from Iran. This is what is important about it. Being that Iran is a threat now, and to hit a nuclear missle on course with the states, takes a side shot to be effective, sort of like hitting a bullet with a bullet, but if a missle is comming at you and you fire a missle to engage it head on, the odds are against it making a kill. Like trying to slice a bullet on the edge of a razor blade. Just about impossible.
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
20 Dec 09
You're right, if this were true we'd have a big problem. However, I don't see much credibility in what I've read about it so far, especially since it apparently was Glenn Beck, Michele Malkin and a few other right-wing pundits/bloggers/commentators who "broke" this story and the former McCain staffer, Michael Goldfarb, who said it isn't much of a reliable source. You're right, Nelson did give in but he didn't come too cheaply from what I've heard. Annie
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
21 Dec 09
I can certainly agree with you about Senators being bribed and bought! Annie
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
20 Dec 09
No, actually it was not Beck who broke this, it was Goldfarb, he asked to come on to becks show though to talk about it. Beck himself expressed skeptisism on it. but he shared the same thoughts I had, I didn't want to believe it, but given the climate lately and the nature of some folks in the Obama staff, I don't know what to believe anymore. It does seem the senator was given a lot of money for his stae though and that is probably the reason. It is still disturbing to me though, that senbators can be essntialy bought and bribed in to voting on something rather than voting on what they think is right or constitutional. that in itself is disturbing enough.
1 person likes this
• United States
18 Dec 09
It is probably true X that Obama administration is playing hardball and what about that is a surprise? At that high level thats how the game is played. And at some lower levels too. Obama is not just up there for show. He is about implementing his agenda and the changing strategy the American people want. George administration and most every other administration did the same.They pkay by a hard edge set of rules.George Bush administration got rid of a whole judge crew because they would not play ball. They outed CIA agent Valrie Plane because of unfavorable comments and reports from her husband. The Obama administration hits differently and more openly as their attack on Fox News and Rush Limbaugh shows but Is it a surprise that they are playing hardball. Chief of Staff Rohm Emanuel is a hard nosed politician, he is playing for keeps. In the end Health Care will pass. During the state of the union and Obama will give a rousing speech tieing our security as a Nation to Health Care. He will say the battle is not over it is just beginning. The people who voted for president Obama are not the one counted in the polls, they are not the ones that put together alot of actions committee pacs with lobbyist and staffs. The people who voted for President Obama are not the ones who control Wall street though certainly they greatly impact it. The people who voted for President Obama still believe the he is doing what needs to be done. Certinly there have been missteps and questions. The issue of Terrorist trials in the Us lingers. However, the Fire and Steely coolness of President Obama is emerging. The Economy, Health Care, Afghanistan looms. The President remains cool in the face of fire. Polls are liers and most people know it. You can have a poll say anything if you who and how to ask.
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
18 Dec 09
There is hard ball, and then there is treason, HUGE difference. I expect hard ball, I do not expect it to go over the line of treason. Trust me, I am no fan of Bush, but, the incident you are refering to, the federal prosecuters he got rid of, though the timing was suspicious, he was well with in his authority to fire and r3place them, sad, but still with in his authority and law, many other presidents have done that, clinton fired a heck of a lot more his first few years in office and replced them with his own. But that it a far cry from a senator being threatend with the closure of an important base in his state and the fact that the base itself became a pawn, a very important and strategic base, makes it an even worse offense. I don't see Obama remaining cool anymore, if this is the sort of thing the administration is resorting to. this isn't cool, this is desperate thuggery, mafia tactics and....ilegal. but like I said, I am not sure it is even true yet, I would like to think and believe it isn't. 20 senators have called for an investigation in it, I hope such an investigation does happen, I want this to be cleared up, i want this to not be true.
@veromar (1453)
• Argentina
21 Dec 09
here, here! Itsmychoice. I agree 1000 percent.
@dmrone (746)
• United States
18 Dec 09
Hi! I don't think it is hard for any politician to do this type of thing, just to further their agenda. It has become so commonplace for politicians to lie, cheat, and a whole list of other things just to get what they want. I personally would not put it past any of them to do any wrong doings. They tell people what they want to hear to get elected, and then go in the opposite direction. I could see where they would go this far, and it is a shame to see this country come to this.
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
19 Dec 09
yeh, I guess nothing suprises me with these people any more.
1 person likes this
@dmrone (746)
• United States
19 Dec 09
I know that nothing really surprises me when it comes to politics anymore. There are some many lies, and so much deceit. To say any of them are honest is a joke.
• United States
19 Dec 09
Well you and I have in the past met with split ideas, and have resolved them through discussions further getting down to the agreement that suites us both. I have not been on here for awhile but not from lack of content. I have found a better way to put my thoughts out to others to understand the important truths that are covered up by everyone in government. I have uncovered allot of information that is backed up with written and videos content that proves my points. And when others who are pro republican or Democrat, come forth with blatant disrespect for people like us, meaning you and me, using all kinds of tricks to aggravate the post into a full fledged argument, just so they can get the post removed. This by the way is perpetrated by the very people in the government posing as regular Joe's, just so they can turn the truth into a conspiracy theory post, that in of its self is a way to put an ignorant twist to the post, and the post loses steam. It is well your right to post that I may be supporting a conspiracy theory, and to just go away, but at the same time cheating yourself of your right to know the truth, if I happen to be right. I do not support these types of rumors but go forth to research the idea more closely. In this sense I say that when I post about the government and how things really are, others will also have an opposite opinion, but if they did some research of the content of my posts, they could make a more accurate decision on my knowledge, instead of posting their opinions that are made out of just heresy. If you know anything about politics just from what you have been taught by some collage or school, then you know nothing that will be of any consequence to your life, and the path you will have taken would be of someone Else's ideas that were put in that establishment by some other persons opinion, and not the truth necessarily being of truth. Truth is truth, and no matter how the government twists it around can only be the truth, and will just have a different angle fry into your brain. You have to remember, that everyone that gets into the government, has to play the game that the big boys are playing or will not be in office for long. So what I am saying is "Follow the money honey" then you will find the bosses that are above the smaller fish. If you spend several hours a day like I do researching the government and politics, you would have an enormous amount of information that regular Joe's don't even comprehend, all because they believe what they hear by people who can't even prove they know the false rumors. Now that that is said and done, I will only say that anyone who takes one simple statement from one source is cheating themselves of their right to know the truth that does involve each and everyone of us. What would one person get out of a conspiracy theory? You would not get more pay, or a fancy office, or anything that has any value. But if it is something said by someone in the government, they have allot to gain by telling lies, because they get bonuses and high ranks, and power, and manipulation of the masses. This is enough reason to take it to the next level, and dig past the talk and dive into the facts that can be found if your not discouraged to not do so. This conspiracy theory was started by the very elite that for years have been guarding the hen house, from prying eyes, so the truth stays sealed by courts that are just as prejudiced as the government politicians. We can't afford to any longer ignore the fact that it really is not republicans against the Democrats any more then it is which politician is going to play the game for the people. It is really the mega rich at the top of the world populations controlling the outcome of the whole of society. It is the people against the super rich, that we should be concentrating on. We are blinded by the society and the rules that are made up by the Mega rich, that are the same powers that are above the governments of the world. All and I mean all the governments are under control of the world bank, and the lessor powers are under them and so on. They want you to believe that the governments and presidents are the problem when things get bad, but they are only the scapegoats for the higher ups, and are paid for their screen play they put on. Why are there so many more poor then rich? Because they don't have any way to fight the richest of the rich, because we signed over our rights to the rich thinking that if the rich and wealthy are so wealthy, they must have a better knowledge of how to run our lives, but in reality, they are no better then the poorest, just smarter in manipulation of the people. All this proves is we were duped a long time ago and we must now pull all the stops and fight back and take all that we have lost to these Powers and revolt. We should have a human revolution and disband all the governments and their laws, and start at the beginning of freedom, the very same freedom we come into this world with. We need self regulation and simple laws that apply to everyone. These laws were once very fair until man found ways to manipulate others with deceit and lies, and promises of prosperity. The laws I refer to are the Ten Commandments. Think about it, if we all kept the commands as law, what would be the bad thing? They would be fair to all, they would be the same for every man woman and child, they would not have any way to be manipulated by any man for his own gain. Now I ask, why would people fight the argument of using the laws of a God, instead of a man? Because then there would be a fair society under no mans control, and that is why there are so many other religions, one trying to get control of the others, for their own gain, and not simple survival, but personal gain.
• United States
19 Dec 09
Oh man I forgot.........Merry Christmas, Happy Hannakah, and every other religious Holliday you may enjoy, just be sure you don't lessen your own freedoms by someone elses gain. Happy Lotting
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
23 Dec 09
sorry I didn't get back to your post sooner...I spend a lot of time among the "tin foil hat" crowd (please note that is in fact a term of endearment and not derogitory), I am familiar with a lot of this stuff, don't buy 90% of it, but the 10% I do buy is more than scary and sobering enough....Iguess I see the NWO a little differently than most of the info-warriors, but the danger is almost as bad.
@jennybianca (12912)
• Australia
18 Dec 09
I read this csrefully. Im not American, so there's no way I can relate to the Politicians involved as easily as you, or underrstand current pracrises. Is it reallky treason to make a threat like that? If it happened, it is a threat for sure, but I don't think in the Australian system it would be considered treason. I would also be very surprised if a reputable journalist faked this info; he career and reliability would be too much at risk. Thgis kind of threatening behaviour in anyone is definitely bullying & I suspect occurs with Politicians more than we realise. Your system of Government is very complicated and there are a lot of Politicians involved. The saying "Power Corrupts" is quite true and you have just given an example, if true, that therre is a great deal of serious corruption in the US government. I hope Obama gets very firm on this.
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
18 Dec 09
Well jenny, it would be treason because it was a threat that effects a strategic base here in the states, it was something that would directly affect the security of the United States and on top of that, it was blackmail, which is also highly ilegal here. Cobined, it was blackmail being used against the security of the united states. This could be considered high treason. Our system really isn't that complicated, not nearly as bad as it is made out to be. The document that defined our government structure was original 5 pages long. It laid out a very simple structure, that created an agent to act on the behalf of the states with a very limited number of duties and powers.
@dawnald (85135)
• Shingle Springs, California
17 Dec 09
Hm, I'm not getting notifiers for you either. :-( Same comment as Lamb, reserving judgment, but could be very disturbing.
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
18 Dec 09
Your not? Is it something on my end or is it on yours? I can go and look ans see how my stuff is set up, lol, truthfully, i never pay attention to it before. anyway, i am still reserving judgement. Lets hope a congressional iquiry goes through, that he and the aid who reprted it are called before congress and made to answer questions under oath.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (85135)
• Shingle Springs, California
18 Dec 09
I'm sure it's a myLot glitch. According to the Lamb, it's been a problem for some people for years....
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
18 Dec 09
I obviously don't know if it's true either, but in the context of what we know about politicians, this seems to be about as believable as Dubya mispronunciating a word. Emanuel and other Chicago-style politicians have long carried this type of stigma around with them, and he himself has been accused of strong-arming people before and going on expletive-rice tirades. Hot-heads blurt things out in the heat of the moment, and I don't think anyone can definitively put it past him. It's the kind of thing you expect to be true of him. But by that standard, since it does seem to be right up his alley, I wouldn't put it past someone creating it out of thin air just to see how it would fly in the mainstream. All that aside, this is what I and a lot of others fully expected politicians like these in power now to do.
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
18 Dec 09
I have a hard time imagining Obama would have aproved of this. I would like to think he acted on hjis own if it happened. But, I guess there are now 20 senators asking for an investigation in to it. Some may call it a waste of time, but this is pretty serious. I think Emanual should be supenoed, as well as the aid who reported it, they should be put under oath and have to answer questions.