Catholics and the images, my point of view
By edxcast
@edxcast (1168)
Ecuador
March 8, 2010 8:32pm CST
Ok so as catholic i wanted to explain some points about images and to clarify that we do not adore this images. They are just a representation of the saints and Mary. Jesus images are the ones who we adore since this is the tangible form that God took on earth and represents God Son(why is this different than old testament would be explain as well). So lets begin by asking, images are they biblical?
Well lets see some points, for example Exodus 25:18-22; 26:1,31 God commanded to make a golden cherubim(angel). In Num. 21:8-9 God commanded to make a bronze serpent. Both examples are images which God commanded to do and were not meant to be adore such as Mary and saints images. Other case is in Ezek. 41:15 in which Ezekiel describes graven images in the temple consisting of carved cherubim. These are similar to the images of the angels and saints in many Catholic churches. There are other cases but i would stop there.
God in the old testament didnt reveal Himslef, that is why it would have been a mistake to represent Him in any way(such as an animal, which was the common thing on that times). Yet in the new testament God did reveal Himself in tangibles ways such as a dove and as fire.
So it is against the Word of God to carve images? Evidently it is not a wrong thing.
3 responses
@mjcookie (2271)
• Philippines
9 Mar 10
It is not wrong to create these images, but just like what you said, what's wrong is the adoration, like treating the images as God. Worshiping totem poles, snakes, cats, and other creatures or statues is wrong. I am a Catholic, too, but I do not kneel before images or other carved objects and praise them.
@edxcast (1168)
• Ecuador
9 Mar 10
Hi mjcookie
Thanks for your response. Yes you are right, but as a catholic we do not adore this images, perhaps i should have explained a bit better this point but i thought it would have been too long for anyone to read, anyway my point of the discussion is to explain to people who says that images are unbiblical. To what you are saying, we venerate them,and is not the same thing as adoring them. Someone cant tell me im doing something im not. Its like im reading a book and someone says to me, no you are staring at it. Of course i know im reading the book no need to tell me what i am doing.An image is not an idol and should not be treated equally. The definition of venerate is "to hold in deep respect; revere". Another anology, If you kneel to your mother as she is sick and you tell her you love her, are you adoring her?? Of course not, right?
As a catholic i ask for the intercession of Mary(just as she intercedes on Canaa´s wedding) and of the saints since they are closer to God than earthlings. That is what is called the saints communion.
@edxcast (1168)
• Ecuador
22 Mar 10
Charlie
It doesnt go against what the bible says. In the bible there are many passages when the word "father" is used. Im curious you dont call father to your dad? Do you call a doctor like that? Did you know doctor means master?.
Anyway with what i was saying. We should not take all the bible in a literal way because Jesus used to talk on hyperbole and parabole, the passage you are talking about is Mat. 23:8-10 right? I think you are taking it out of context.
Its like in Mc 9,45 when Jesus says if your eye makes you sin, then take it off. SHould you take your eyes, your hands, your feet off? No right? exactly the same idea(this is called an hyperbole when someone exaggerate to get to a point, eg: "i told you a thousand times", when in reality it has been 4 times).
Even the apostle called themselves "father" such as in Fil. 2:22, Cor. 4:14-15, Jn 2:13, and many more.
@urbandekay (18278)
•
22 Mar 10
Bible interpretation is tricky, so it pays to take guidance from the clearest and strongest passages on an issue.
Exodus 20 kjv
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me
Seems pretty clear to me and let us not forget that the Bishop of Rome, before the Roman Church split away from the Orthodox, once railed against the Bishop of Constantinople for allowing icons
all the best urban
@urbandekay (18278)
•
22 Mar 10
Well, I think the passage I quote is the stronger and I am not convinced that the prohibition is only on adoration of the image. But even were I to agree, then as you admit that some of the Roman Church fall foul of not telling the difference, you must accept that it is an unwise practice.
all the best urban
@edxcast (1168)
• Ecuador
23 Mar 10
You are saying yours is stronger than mine, are you implying the bible have mistakes/contradictions? Since by your logic images are completely forbidden yet God commanded to make a bronze serpent.Anyway, thanks for responding on this discussion and for doing it so respectfully.
@edxcast (1168)
• Ecuador
22 Mar 10
Hi urbandekay
THanks for the response. Well i have pointed out many passages where it shows God doesnt repudiate images, but what He repudiates was the adoration of this images. There is a difference between veneration and adoration, which is confused by many of our brothers(even some catholics are guilty of not telling the difference).
@eileenleyva (27562)
• Philippines
21 Jun 10
On the way to Golgotha, a woman, supposedly called Veronica, wiped the bloodied face of Jesus. An imprint on the linen supposedly showed the image of Jesus not once but three times. And the Shroud of Turin also, scientifically, gave us a picture of our Jesus. It takes a heart to believe but I know that God wants us to see Him.
Tough discussion, ain't it ed? But carry on...
