Illegal Immigration, Government Is Not The Solution

@gewcew23 (8007)
United States
April 23, 2010 5:37pm CST
Yesterday I wrote a discussion and asked for feed back about issues they have with the current immigration crisis we have. Some of you responded with some good issue that I will be bringing up. I am going to bring up a few also. As I said yesterday it is my case that government action will only make thing worse not better, so sorry to the one responder but I am not in favor of annexing Mexico by force to solve the immigration problem. Issue 1 Illegals receive entitlement and therefore are a drain to the system. My counter with that is so do natural born citizen. You should be fighting entitlement programs than illegal immigration. Immigration as a whole is a benefit to certain programs like Social Security because they add more taxpayers to pay for the programs. The current issue with SS is that birth rates have drop so there is not enough to carry the burden. More immigrate paying FICA taxes would help. Issue 2 Why don't we just punish the businesses that hire them. Boy that sounds very free market don't it? Lets run an experiment I live in Arkansas and my largest city is Little Rock. Now lets say the city of Little Rock passed an ordinance that barred businesses from hiring employees from outside of the city, would that be fair? Expanding this what if the state passed a law that businesses in AR could only hire Arkansans, like if you had a business in Texarkana, AR you could not hire people who lived on the TX side of the city, would that be fair? Well if you said no to those two then why is it fair for the National government to bar businesses from hiring employees from another country? Issue 3 National Security. All the terrorist on 9/11 entered this country legally. Having the government trying to enforce our boarder ties up valuable man power that could be used to prevent the next terrorist attack. Issue 4 The Mexican government needs to do more to help their own people. We should be glad that all of those European government were pretty messed up. There is a reason why this country has so many descendants of European immigrates. Issue 5 They are violating the law. Well change the law then. We use to have a pretty wide open immigration policy. Now we have a central planned immigration policy. We should all know that central planning does not work. We have illegals because people are that desperate to enter this country. Issue 6 They are taking jobs away from American. We currently have 10% unemployment and yet illegals are still here, shouldn't that tell us something. They are not taking away anymore jobs than any other immigrant group did. Issue 7 They are depressing wages. Wages are a golden calf in this country. Wages are just half of the cycle, the other half is prices. We could all live on making 40 cents an hour if prices were lower. There was a time when Ford paid an unheard of $5 a day now it is $40 a hour. What happens between then and now, the US dollar lost around 98% of it's value. While government debt is creating inflation illegals wages for work create deflation. Imagine the price of produce or chicken without the cheap labor that comes from illegal immigration.
3 people like this
5 responses
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
24 Apr 10
I didn't have the opportunity to respond to your discussion yesterday but I do have some opinions about this issue. I may have to combine some of your points though and respond to them out of order. Starting with Issue 5-They are violating the law. You say change the law but can you tell me what there is about our current immigration policy that is bad? The people who sneak across the boarder do it because it's easier than following the rules. Does that make the rules wrong? It's also easier to just get behind the wheel and drive instead of following the requirements for getting a driver's license but you wouldn't suggest that we do away with licensing people before they drive, would you? Issue 6 & 7- They are taking jobs away from Americans and they are depressing wages. The reason for both problems is that illegal immigrants work under the table, for cash daily, and this is an attractive proposition to unethical employers. Why pay someone a fair wage and, as a business, pay your fair share of taxes, when you can hire day laborers? These employers are not paying payroll taxes for these people, they don't have to cover them under Workmans Comp. You suggest that prices would increase without this cheap labor but, since they don't make up the majority of any workforce in this country, that can't be true. What is true is that the employer is reaping a much larger profit and is certainly not passing any savings along to the consumer. Look at the construction industry as an example. The influx of cheap labor in the field of new home construction and home improvement started less than ten years ago. Have prices gone down or remained stable? No, the cost of services in this area have increased along with everything else. Consumers continue to pay more, the employers continue to keep more as profit. The worst part, particularly in this industry, is that the consumer has no way of knowing who is doing the work and if they're certified to do it. Would you want an unlicensed electrician working in your home? Which brings me to Issue 2-Why don't we punish the businesses that hire them? Your example does not match the situation. Aside from the fact that employers are not paying illegals a fair wage, they're not paying payroll taxes, we don't know if the employees are criminals, we don't know if they're qualified, they're not paying taxes on their income...the availability of these jobs is an incentive for them to come here in the first place. If it were not possible for them to find work, they would either not come or would come here legally...giving us the opportunity to do background checks, giving your state and mine the payroll and income tax revenue we're entitled to and ensuring that only qualified people are doing certain jobs. Issue 3-National Security. Just because the 9/11 terrorists entered this country legally, that does not mean that our boarders shouldn't be protected. We have the right to know who is entering the U.S. I don't know how you think boarder patrol agents could prevent terrorist attacks, or why you believe that we have a shortage of people who work in that area, but it's important...not only on a national level, but also on a state and local level that we know who has entered this country. Issue 4-The Mexican government. Comparing the immigrants who sneak into this country illegally to the Europeans and others from around the world who followed the rules and entered legally is pretty lopsided logic. Our boarder states have serious crime and gang related problems because group after group arrive...without resources...without employment opportunities and too many of them are criminals.
1 person likes this
@gewcew23 (8007)
• United States
24 Apr 10
We do not allow enough people to immigrate here legally, so they are forced to cross the boarder illegal. The European immigrates came to this country legally back in the 1800's and early 1900's because there was no law barring them from entering the country. We had open immigration and it worked. I have yet to meet an American that wants to do the kind of jobs that illegals are doing. Do you really think that produce would not go up with out those crops being picked by cheap labor? So should business be bared in Florida from hiring people from Georgia? We are all just people wanting to better are own lives. Want is so wrong with that. How many terrorist have entered this country illegally? Government does not have an endless supply of resources. When resources are used in one area they cannot be used in another. Your last goes back to my to the first. European immigrates came to this country because there was not law barring them from doing so. Natural born citizens commit crime and form gangs too.
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
25 Apr 10
If you've not met any American citizen willing to do the jobs that illegals do, you either need to get out more or just travel around to areas of the country that are home to large groups of unemployed workers. I live in one such area. I am mother to three sons who have in the past done agricultural work and drudge labor while looking for skilled work. I think Americans are beginning to see that our American dream has collapsed from GREED and are willing to rethink what they're willing to do to eat and have a roof over their head.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
24 Apr 10
I am not against immigration. Three of my four grandparents were immigrants. I am against ILLEGALLY being in this country and receiving what citizens of this country PAY for. I am against giving away our resources to someone who is not a citizen and never plans on being a citizen. Industries that hire illegals do so to save money. And rob citizens of jobs doing so. I say that that deserves punishment. As for terrorists, I ask, why in the name of sanity, just when our country is in the most danger from without, do we RELAX our vigil at the borders? Sounds paranoid, I'm sure...but horse sense says to WATCH even more carefully. A government push to relax at this time is CREEPY. It is not just Mexican illegals that bother me or the people I know. But let me ask you this, I know personally two sisters who came here from Mexico legal. They are model citizens and contribute to this town, county and country. Why is it that some can do this legally and prosper? But we think we have to hand out favors to those who won't do it legal? I'm all for welcoming in those who want to prosper. But they MUST do it the same way as my European anscestors...legally. My German grandfather learned English, btw. So did my Italian grandfather. My Irish grandmother already spoke it...but she'd have rather spoke Gaelic. She spoke English instead. Sacrifice and hard work. Not hand outs. I live under the poverty line. I don't qualify for assistance. I don't get hand outs. I do what my grandparents did. I obey the law and work. As for those prices and the dollar being devalued. That was planned and we bought it. And according to my parents, they saw it coming way back in the fifties.
@gewcew23 (8007)
• United States
24 Apr 10
Until someone shows me a job that an illegal took that a natural born citizen wanted then I stand by my statement. Same thing about the terrorist argument, we have been attacked by natural born citizen, Oklahoma City, and legal immigrate, 9/11. If the idea is to protect us then we have just as much to fear from legal immigrant than illegal immigrates, even our own country men. You write about your legal immigrate descendants and yes they came to this country legally and those that are coming from Mexico would too if they had the chance. Why would they jump over the fence if they could just use the gate. The gate is so small that only a few compared to the many are allowed in.
1 person likes this
• United States
24 Apr 10
Well put spalladino, and the thing is when you hire a contractor that is legally licensed and they sub out you get mickey mouse work, people that did not go to school and they are not educated enough to do the job. I am speaking of roofers, carpenters, bricklayers, and yes even landscapers.
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
24 Apr 10
Until someone shows me a job that an illegal took that a natural born citizen wanted then I stand by my statement. How about 9 of them? My son has been working in the construction field for about 15 years and these are the jobs the illegal immigrant day laborers are taking away from Americans in Maryland. *Carpenters *Painters *Drywall mechanics *Drywall finishers *Electricians *Plumbers *Roofers *Bricklayers *Landscapers
@flowerchilde (12529)
• United States
24 Apr 10
Actually there's likely plenty of laws already.. I'm always leery when gov wantsw to make more laws to solve something already having laws.. I'm in favor of a work program, then illegal immigrants would not have to be 'illegal' and would not have to risk their lives to get here.. and also we would know more who is here. I'm not in favor of blanket amnesty and citizenship granted, as I feel that is a political ploy which will see buses rounding them up and delivering them to voter booths in order to vote a certain way, millions added to the voter pool overnight.
@spalladino (17891)
• United States
26 Apr 10
Reagan gave blanket amnesty when he was in office but he didn't secure the boarders so the problem continued. Anything the U.S. does about this problem without securing the boarders is not going to cure the problem.
@grammasnook (1871)
• United States
24 Apr 10
Gew by your thought process as long as you can pay the amount of money to gain entry into the US you should be able to come... You do not find this statement as being rediculous??? Remember we are not just talking about mexico we are talking about all countries. That would make the US a third world country in no time at all, it would be overcrowded and we would not be able to sustain as a country.
@bestboy19 (5478)
• United States
26 Apr 10
"Issue 4 The Mexican government needs to do more to help their own people. We should be glad that all of those European government were pretty messed up. There is a reason why this country has so many descendants of European immigrates." Are you saying it's the responsibility of the United States to give jobs and entitlements to the people of Mexico and the Mexican government has no responsibility in this matter?