Why won't God forgive Satan? Just curious!
By GDTimothy
@GDTimothy (446)
United States
July 25, 2010 6:16pm CST
I've posted this question on a couple of other sites so far and have gotten some interesting responses, but no really definitive answers. I would have liked to included my entire text here, but I can't paste text yet here, so instead of tediously retyping the whole freaking post, I just make this short and sweet.
Well, um,.. short anyway. :-)
So tell me, if the Judeo-Christian Tradition god is such a nice guy, and He can do anything, why doesn't he just kiss and make up with Satan, a.k.a. the Devil, a.k.a. Lucifer? I mean what's to stop him from using his all powerful powers and his perfect logic and his perfect persuasive powers to enlighten Satan, show him the error of his ways, instruct him on good behavior, and show him the light, so to speak, and follow that up with forgiveness?
I'm not trying to create foment among the masses of believers - I'm just asking!
And if you think that God has already forgiven Satan, how do you know, eh?
And just to be absolutely forthright, I happen to be an atheist. And no, I do not consider the word atheist to be pejorative in any way, so please don't try to go there. Now, that doesn't mean that I've given up being interested in the various religions - I'm usually always in the mood to learn! So I'm quite curious to find out what you think!
7 people like this
26 responses
@abitosunshine (765)
• United States
26 Jul 10
Because God is a selfish God and like all gods his desire is for us to bow before him in faith in our quest for forgiveness and release of our evil. He has supreme self-love and expects us to have same, for ourselves as well as for others and for him, and in so doing his heavenly love shall be our reward.
The second part of my statement above is '...in faith in our quest...' In faith. And what is faith but belief that something is a truth whether I happen to believe it or not or whether it has been proven or not. I liken faith to trust; to me, they are one and the same. Example:
Gary, you are my friend. I have trust in you that you will not intentionally do me harm. Gary, you are my friend, I have faith in you that you will not intentionally do me harm.
The two sentences mean exactly the same thing. And Gary, you and I know that you may one day do me harm, and if so, my faith, my trust, will be banished. It will only be through loving my self that I will once again love another, and I will do that only out of a selfish, self-centered desire to experience the reward of that heavenly state of love once more. GOD.
That's the best answer I can give you and you know it comes from the spirit of one who worships the sun, as well as the Christian God, as I know him.
(If you use any of this, quote me, please, as I am actually taking this from my notes for a future writing I am slowly working on.)
1 person likes this
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
26 Jul 10
Whoaa! That's quite profound, Ruthi! What an interesting take on things. I shall have to ruminate a bit on that.
But my first reaction is that I've drawn a distinction between faith and trust. For example, one may take something on faith with evidence, but trust, for me, is something one must earn. Science has earned my trust because even though it has been wrong in the past, it tends to be self correcting, and thus my trust in science has been reinforced every time it gets something right. This is in contrast to god, whom, as far as I can see, has done nothing to earn my trust let alone faith without evidence. So, trust involves at least some history with the thing/person/idea to be trusted. While faith, for me, involves something with fundamentally different requirements.
In other words, I trust you Ruthi because I've had a history with you (experience) that leads me to feel this way. However, to "trust" someone I've never met before would require extending faith without reason or evidence to do so really.
I suspect that I have not explained this in the best way or even in an understandable way, but I'm thinking that you'll get the gist of what I mean anyway. :-)
Thank you sooo much for responding!
1 person likes this
@abitosunshine (765)
• United States
26 Jul 10
Did I catch you off guard with my POV m'friend? Hahaha, I've surprised, shocked, a few with my religious opinions, Christian and non-Christian alike!
I think I understood you perfectly. And understand your thinking. However:
According to the dictionary...
Faith: 1.Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. 2.Trust in something.
So by definition, I make no distinction.
I truly believe that (my) God figures he's done his job; now it's mankind's turn to do their job. They get paid according to their production. Just like any other job. I do not believe that god punishes, nor rewards, during our lifetime. The reward or punishment comes in our end as our payment for services rendered, so to speak.
Believing that ... he sits wherever he sits, shaking his head and saying, "You messed up my stuff; only you have the power to fix it. You see, if I believe, and I do, god is love, by the supreme example of such, we each hold within us the power to fix it ... we just don't.
Furthermore, believing what I believe, if I were god, I'd be peeved enough to put an end to us all ... Now! We don't deserve time to fix it. I'd end this game and start a new one, hahaha!
1 person likes this
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
27 Jul 10
Ahh, you are always full of surprises, Ruthi,... and they are always welcomed surprises! But as far as definitions, you may find faith as a synonym of trust but if you look up trust by itself, I have only rarely seen faith included in the definition itself. It may be a fine line of semantic differences, but I do draw the line between them. I can see how you do not, but I qualify my usage of trust with "trust without reason." And the specific contextual usage of trust is the real clarifier of the particular meaning intended.
But I have to agree that if I were god, I wouldn't bother with us either! :-)
1 person likes this
@sulynsi (2671)
• Canada
27 Jul 10
I beg your pardon, its just that the question implies your perspective, at least it so seemed to me, and on occasion, I discover that my way of thinking isn't so very unique.
Since it would simply be conjecture for me to say "I think..." blah blah blah, and really, who cares what I think?, I would like to propose a couple of thoughts.
There is a parable, and I know you will recognize it, as you are evidently an educated person, that of the prodigal son. Jesus gave that illustration, forgive me if I'm telling you something you already know, to demonstrate the way God behaves when a sinner repents and asks forgiveness.
The father in the illustration, "sees the son, a long way off" on his way back to his father, the father "runs to meet him" and sets up a banquet to celebrate the change of heart and attitude of his unruly child. It appears that even if a person has behaved very badly, God would not turn them away if they are truly sorry, and act in a way that demonstrates that sentiment.
Is there a sin that is unforgivable? The scriptures indicate that there is.
"blasphemy against the holy spirit will not be forgiven"
It appears to be a matter of intent, heart condition. Peter and Judas pretty much both sinned the same sin. Peter was forgiven, Judas was not. Peter definitely betrayed Jesus out of fear. Judas, malice.
As humans, we can certainly not read the heart or intent of others, so it would be inappropriate for me to say whether not Satan or any other individual is unforgivable. It doesn't LOOK too good, but then, I am so limited in my knowledge and experience, I will gladly leave such matters up to the one who knows the whole story.
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
27 Jul 10
I never said that I thought Satan deserved forgiveness! I only ask why God has not forgiven him. But on the other hand, aren't we all worthy of forgiveness? Doesn't God ask us to forgive those that trespass against us?
Besides, it seems to me that God could easily fix the situation with Satan if he wanted to. God is supposed to be able to do anything, right? So, like any loving father of a child gone wrong, why wouldn't god simply set Satan straight and everybody gets along happily ever after, so to speak?
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
27 Jul 10
Sulynsi, Thanks for the detailed answer! I appreciate your sentiments, but I must comment that I think that even blasphemy should be forgivable if one is remorseful and repentant. It just seems a little extreme for such a loving god.
@barehugs (8973)
• Canada
25 Jul 10
In the Childrens fairytale," The 3 Little Pigs; the 3 Pigs were having a good life until the Big Bad wolf came along and made a Hell out of their Heavenly lives. God doesn't read Fairytales and is entirely unaware of Satan who is a made-up Character in the Fairy Tale of Christianity. Organized Religion dreamed up Satan, who is supposed to threaten, and scare their converts into paying the Church to forgive sins. This old trick worked well for a while (before people were educated)but of late, even devout Catholics are becoming very skeptical about the authenticity of Satan.
@Ezra710 (135)
• United States
26 Jul 10
You are right, God does not read fairy tales. God creates and He created satan as an angelic being in Heaven. Before there ever was one rock built upon another to call the building a church, satan has been moving about the earth after he got cast out of Heaven. "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scriptures is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." - 2 Peter 1:20-21, "Professing themselves to be wise they became fools." - Romans 1:22
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
26 Jul 10
Ezra710, I can't really make head nor tails out of your response. Sorry. Do you have an answer to my original post question? So, god created satan and cast him out of heaven. Why? God created Satan that way, right? So why would God not set Satan straight, show Satan the light, and forgive him?
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
26 Jul 10
So, it would appear that Satan is a myth inside a mythology, eh? ;-)
There goes the "the Devil made me do it" defense!
@Mike227 (155)
• Australia
26 Jul 10
Hi Timothy,
How do you know "he/she/it" hasn't forgiven him??
Maybe our bible experts here can find something in the script to say that God would never forgive...
And then of course another sentence I would like to find: "God can never change his mind" (but then it wouldn't be God??)
How would we humble humans know that God changed his mind or forgave the Devil? He's not really communicating much, at least not verbally.
As kids we never knew what our parents were talking behind closed doors...
Cheers, Mike
@Mike227 (155)
• Australia
29 Jul 10
Of course none of all this can be proven, unless we will be able in the future, to develop a device to make direct contact with God or and just ask him/her/it.
I could quite easily live with the fact that any possible God could change their mind.
just as the Universe grows (expands), we grow too and expand our mental horizon.
But as we grow and learn we change our minds too. (At least most people do)
Since we possess free will (a subject for another discussion), things become unpredictable. Even for God these events would be reduced to statistical probabilities. And when we look at our Universe from the distribution of the Galaxies throughout space to the stock market or the density of populations... they all follow the same mathematics.
What they also have in common is that the development of the whole can be forecast, but not the path (or future) of an individual.
It's hard to explain all this without the numbers and the drawings...
My point is that it is within reason that - if God exists - he/she also has the same right as we do, to change her mind. (E.g: As a reaction to a changed situation)
If God is supposed to have know every future event since creation of the Universe, why does he still have to "sacrifice" his son, brutally killed, just for Jesus to "forgive our sins", sins which will be committed in the future.
As a father of 3, I do know that my children will sooner or later lie to me.
When would be the right time to punish them??
I could do it now, because I know it will happen anyway..
Or I do wait until they actually did it.
But what good is any punishment if I had so much time to prepare myself for this event? Should I not try to find out the reason why they will lie? Is it because of fear of my reaction? Guilt?
At this stage I realize that I don't need to "forgive" them either, as they cannot harm me in my mind.
Forgiveness in my eyes is when I look "down" and be the "generous one", in the position to "forgive" and make the other one feel even smaller.
If they would ask me for my forgiveness I would tell them that there is nothing there that I can forgive, but they could try to forgive themselves, which is actually what they are after (but unaware of). This is also the reason why many people still struggle, even when they heard the words:"I forgive you", because they haven't learned to forgive themselves as well.
Instead of me forgiving, all my kids could do (it would be nice) is to say "sorry" and then we can get on with life.
Now that is me as a human and as a father talking.
God in his almighty wisdom might have some other views on the subject of forgiveness. However, I like my view but I would be very interested in other views, I am still learning too and I constantly try to become better then myself (which again involves change... change of mind...) ;-)
BTW, I do think you got my point :-)
@Mike227 (155)
• Australia
29 Jul 10
P.S:
That is why I think that God has not forgiven Satan, because it is Satan who needs to be able to forgive himself for whatever he has done.
God could, but if it would be me, I would not mean it because it does not mean anything to me, I don't need to forgive. By forgiving himself, a door might open to an insight, to find peace, the peace 1000 God's could not provide if he can't forgive himself. That might be his lesson to learn and the reason why he still is waiting for God's forgiveness...
It would make sense...
But I might be wrong ;-)
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
27 Jul 10
You are correct - I do not know that god hasn't forgiven Satan. But neither do I know that god has forgiven him. It is merely an assumption from what seems like popular belief that the devil still works his "evil" today. Thus, it would seem that god and the devil haven't kissed and made up just yet, so to speak.
So my question is designed to get responses either way. And I would be interested in any evidence anyone could provide one way or the other. I also don't know whether god ever would forgive Satan, but I'm hoping someone will tell me how they know.
According to the bible stories, god has changed his mind several times. Of course that's another topic altogether, but I would be confused as to how a perfect god could possibly change his presumably already perfect mind.
As to parents talking behind closed doors, at least we could ask them about it and get a definite response. Of course they might just tell us it was none of our business, but at least they'd reply. However, I do get your point! I think. :-)
@abitosunshine (765)
• United States
27 Jul 10
You can lead a horse towater but you cannot make him drink, so to speak.
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
27 Jul 10
Okay, so why doesn't God use his powers of persuasion to convince Satan of the error of his ways, set Satan straight, show him the light, so to speak? Then Satan would learn and understand (because he'd been taught by the best, namely God) why he should ask for forgiveness and actually go ahead and do so. Or is there some other factor in play here?
@BambooPanda13 (867)
• United States
26 Jul 10
Because these are made up beings and if Christian god ever forgave Lucifer then people would not have to follow the word of Christian god because they would not be worried about going to hell because hell would no longer exist, Lucifer would go back to heaven and people could not be "scared" into believing in something. Although, I get the feeling that from what I understand of the Christian god-Lucifer story is that Lucifer is angry with Christian god for loving humans more than angels. So I do not think it is the principle of Lucifer WANTING to be forgiven or not. Even if Christian god said "I am sorry for loving humans more than angels Lucifer" it wouldn't make a difference unless Christian god says he loves angels more than humans. That was the whole argument in the first place. So I do not think Lucifer would be happy with a "sorry" as Christian god does not feel he has anything to be sorry about and cast Lucifer into heaven for trying to rebel. So really Lucifer would need to be the one to apologize and submit to Christian god's ideal to love humans more than the angels. I think Christian god gave angels free will as well. Those in heaven have chosen to obey his orders unlike Lucifer. So that is why Lucifer is in hell. Honestly if I believe in all of this I would feel bad for Lucifer because it is like your parents telling you they love your pets more than they love you. Or they love a child they adopted more than they love you their natural born child. It would suck, and you would feel angry at them and yell and throw a fit! Small children get jealous of new baby brothers or sisters that seem to take all of their parent's attention away from them and sometimes (rarely)they may try to take it out on the baby, or throw lots of fits and "rebel".
So really Lucifer was an angel who was throwing a fit, but for a pretty good reason, his feelings were really hurt, mine would be too if my parents said they did not love me more than our pets or more than an adopted child (which in that situation they should love both equally). So when you break things down and really look at them, who is to blame? Was Lucifer's punishment too harsh? He has been in time out since forever. No wonder he does bad things and tries to get the humans to do bad things. He is rebelling against his da and taking it out on the new babies (humans). He hopes that by hurting the humans he will be taking it out on his dad and hurting his dad. This is his cry for love and attention.
So, if Christian god would love the angels more, then Lucifer might be happy and apologize for rebelling and his time out would be over. But in the context of this possibly just being a made up story by the church (not trying to step on any toes but any religious text could be made up people just choose to believe it is not) then there has to always be a good and evil so that people will be scared into living a life that the church says is the right way to live.
This is just my belief, and I do not follow the Christian religion but I have taken the time to do some studying of many different religions to have a better understanding. And if more people would too they would see the huge similarities between pretty much all religions. And if people would not take things so seriously they would know that Christmas is NOT Jesus' birthday. They would know that many of the Christian holidays were created close to the Pagan holidays to gain the favour of Pagans and try to turn them to their religion (think about it, how many times have you wondered what coloured eggs and rabbits have to do with Jesus being ressurected?! If you're Pagan you know about the symbolism of coloured eggs and rabbits in spring for Ostara). Yule is on the winter equinox Dec. 21st Christmas is the 25th. Easter is about colouring eggs and a giant rabbit hiding them to celebrate Jesus coming back to life?! No, it is part of Ostara where you colour eggs that represent the fertility of springtime and you paint them colourfully to represent all of nature coming back to life after winter and all of the colours of the flowers blooming. The rabbit symbolizes the sexuality of the fertility at this time, animals mating and such, as they are animals known for their vigorous copulation habits lol. There is more but I'll stop here since I am going off track. I hope this is a good answer for you, it is just my point of view. Basically the church wants there to be good versus evil so people would be scared into following their religion.
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
27 Jul 10
BambooPanda, what a thorough response! It is much appreciated! I have to say that I would agree with most of your analysis. But I did want to put the question to those that subscribe to the Judeo-Christian Tradition because I am such a curious person about people's belief systems.
I will have to go back over and reread your text when I have some more time. But I do thank you sooooo much for taking the time to respond with such a explanatory comment!! :-)
@muchaliska (46)
• Poland
26 Jul 10
WOOOOOOoooahHhhh Thats insane :D u wanted to write that all? :O Graatz
@Sharon38 (1912)
• Jamaica
26 Jul 10
Satan never sought God's forgiveness. Satan is only hell bend on going to hell and bringing as much of God's creation (man) with him as he can.
Satan was so full of himself and still is that to date he does not see the need to ask forgiveness.
This is something I had wondered about with Satan and Judas. Judas hanged himself. He couldnt forgive himself for what he did.
Now Satan on the other hand, forgetting that he was created sought to be like God and still is trying to do that.
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
27 Jul 10
So, you are essentially saying that God requires Satan to seek forgiveness before God will indeed forgive him?
I do find it curious that Satan could be so dumb as to not realize that God could never be bested in any contest since God is supposedly all-powerful. And how Satan could think he could be like God is beyond me too. It just seems that Satan would have to be a real dunce to think that. Oh well,...
Thank you for your response! :-)
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
26 Jul 10
Where is is written that Hashem has not forgiven Satan? This is not discussed anywhere as far as I have seen. Satan seems to be perfectly content being the way he is. He made a choice. He has the option of having his face to face with Hashem just like every other entity. Maybe he already did and made his choice, or maybe he is waiting until the last minute and continuing to enjoy himself until then.
Shalom~Adoniah
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
27 Jul 10
Is it Satan that is causing the trouble, or man? There is a line of belief that man is both good and bad. If this is true, then he can do either good or bad without the influence of Satan. This all being taken into consideration, it does not matter if Satan is forgiven or not.
To answer your question...there is no way that we can know if Satan Has been forgiven or even wishes to be forgiven.
Shalom~Adoniah
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
26 Jul 10
Where is it written that Hashem HAS forgiven Satan? Since Satan reportedly continues to cause trouble down here on Earth, I can only assume that there's been NO forgiveness! In any case, my question would become, how do you know one way or another?
@Bebs08 (10681)
• United States
26 Jul 10
Why God won't forgive Satan? Did Satan asked forgiveness from God? Satan or Lucifer was the most beautiful, brilliant and talented of all the angels in heaven. He started to feel proud of himself and want to outsmart God. He wants to be a part of all God's decisions which did not happen so he started a rebellion in heaven. He was able to convinced 1/3 of the angels in heaven to go with his plan. He accused God of being unfair and he rebel against Him. He was cast down from heaven together with the angels who side with him. His sin is unpardonable. For this reason, he tempted the people on earth to do bad things so that they will be together with him in the final judgment. All of these you can read in the Bible. Start from Genesis.
@Bebs08 (10681)
• United States
27 Jul 10
Satan did not ask forgiveness and did not repent for what he did. You will be forgiven when you repent and ask forgiveness of what you have done. Instead of repenting, Satan start rebellion against God since then until now. Satan doesn't need God's forgiveness. He wanted to show to his angels that he is right and God is wrong. Nothing will change satan even if he will be forgiven and he doesn't need forgiveness.
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
26 Jul 10
Oh, I've read the bible! And many other religious texts as well. But I question whether his sin is unpardonable by an ultimate loving god. So are you saying that god is incapable of forgiving Satan? How could any sin be unforgivable? God has the power, since he is supposedly all-powerful (nothing he can't do), to do whatever he wants. So, again, why would god not want to forgive Satan? God could simply snap his fingers and enlighten Satan as to his sin, at which time Satan would realize his sin and ask for forgiveness. And since god is perfect, god should have no problem with setting Satan straight with perfect reasoning, perfect enlightenment, and perfect persuasive powers.
So are you saying that there are some sins that are soooo bad that even god won't forgive them even though one repents and asks forgiveness?? Seems like god could easily fix this, if he wanted to.
1 person likes this
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
26 Jul 10
Well, that's as good a reason as any! Thanks for coming by! :-)
hello
@archon309 (404)
• Philippines
26 Jul 10
Very interesting question. But who can fathom what God has in His mind. Most people say that God works in mysterious ways and sometimes he works beyond reasons. What I believe is, God is the most logical, most reasonable of all, however our puny minds cannot understand the logic, the reasons of God's actions.
Keep lotting.
@kharlav (1669)
• Philippines
26 Jul 10
Yes, that is right. We cannot fathom God's mind. He has his own reasons... But I have actually asked my pastor about this. ANd according to him, if Satan was to ask for forgiveness God will not forgive him because he was made perfect. His components were different. Unlike angels, man was made destructible and weak. But angels were strong. So how they are judged and treated by God is different. Man's nature was to sin but it wasn't the nature of angels to sin.
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
27 Jul 10
Thank you to both of you, Archon and Kharlav, for your responses. Interesting even though no definitive answers are offered. :-)
@eduTreasure (110)
• India
28 Jul 10
According to Islam:
When God created Adam,He asked Angels to prostrate him and this was Prostrate was a sign of a respect..and among Angels was Iblees (Satan), He refuse to Obey God and was proud and thus became among the disbelievers..
God would not forgive anyone unless the sinner asks for forgiveness..
if Satan would ask him for forgiveness.. God would have forgive him.
But..not Satan was proud, he did not prostrated and said Adam is made from clay and i am from fire.. so why to bow??
so, Satan challenged God and asked Him to give a portion of time that he would mislead the Adam's generation.. with sins.
so God agreed and said that "you will not be able to mislead my true believers..,
and as long as my believers ask me for forgiveness,i would forgive them".
So, this is the concept..
why does God forgive one who doesn't ask forgiveness??
STILL SATAN IS MISLEADING PEOPLE AND THERE ARE ALSO PEOPLE WHO ARE SAVED FROM HIS MISCHIEF..
STILL SATAN HAS NOT ASKED FORGIVENESS AND ALSO DID NOT PROSTRATE TO ADAM(pbuh) AS IT WAS GOD'S ORDER AND GOD DOESN'T CHANGES HIS ORDERS OTHERWISE HE DOESN'T REMAINs A GOD!
This LIFE is a test in this world..if satan wouldn't there than BAD would not exist in this world...and all the people would be Right.. so what should one do with such world.
what about HEAVEN or HELL?
THINK IT AGAIN..
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
30 Jul 10
Thank you for your thoughts on this! I am not an expert on Islam, so your response is appreciated.
So basically you are saying the God will not forgive anyone who does not ask forgiveness. But what about those that do not ask for forgiveness because they don't know that they have sinned? Like those that have other religions and have no thought to ask Islam's god for forgiveness since they do not believe in Islam's god.
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
27 Jul 10
So, it's just that simple, eh? Why wouldn't god snap his fingers and get Satan to see the light and apologize and ask for forgiveness? Doesn't God want to forgive Satan?
@carpediem17 (1315)
• Singapore
26 Jul 10
I think this is not a case of God forgiving Satan or not. Rather Satan features in God's plan for humanity. If there is no evil, how can one differentiate goodness. If there is no pain, how can one discern joy, contentment and happiness. If there is no betrayal, appreciation of loyalty and truth may not be attainable.
Remember Satan is an adversary of God (he wanted to be God) but God is in control of the situation so as to bring to fruition God's kingdom on earth.
@carpediem17 (1315)
• Singapore
27 Jul 10
Hi GDTimothy, seems like you have so many questions marks swirling in your head. Satan is part of God's plan as much as men on earth are. Period.
God had a plan for the world. He had intended for paradise to be on earth in the Garden of Eden but the existence of the evil one led to men's downfall and sin had entered the world.
We are not able to fathom God's mind so the issue of forgiveness is a moot question.
Satan does not exist merely to provide the contrast between good and bad but remained on earth to tempt and deceive men (men were made in God's image remember) as his power is derived from men's evil inclinations. And Satan remained until he was banished to eternal condemnation in the end-times.
Satan even offered the world to Jesus if Jesus had worshipped him. Satan is tempting the Son of God! Is he not an adversary of God. Satan is recalcitrant.
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
27 Jul 10
So are you saying that Satan is just part of god's plan? In essence, a pawn used by god to provide contrast between good and bad?
There are people with certain diseases that were born unable to feel pain, but I don't think this prevents them from knowing pleasure. So having contrast in one's life is not necessary to discern extremes. A baby cannot know sadness, and yet they giggle quite naturally. A baby can feel pain and/or discomfort, but that's different from sadness. So I don't think that requiring contrasts to know an extreme is logically valid. But that's not really to the point of my question anyway.
I am curious about the adversary thing. How could Satan possibly think he could go up against god? Doesn't Satan know that God is all powerful and can't be defeated or replaced or successfully opposed?
@shivram123 (656)
• India
26 Jul 10
maybe god and satan is one person suffering a multiple personality,after building this universe,he thought of wht to do with it,that time his concious became divided into two,one for the sympathy for life and other to be mischief to it.
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
27 Jul 10
Well, I guess that's a possibility! However, I'm assuming the historical Judeo-Christian Tradition here. And I don't think that involves a split personality. :-)
@akhileshnigam (494)
• India
26 Jul 10
god has forgiven satan ,he has made him his friends ,nowadays satan are terrorist,leaders,mafias
@baban88 (103)
• Philippines
26 Jul 10
well according to what I've researched, Satan was ones an angel and his fall is not by accident or any sort, it was already written that he will fall because of his desire of power.I don't know the whole story but my opinion if the fall of Satan aka Lucifer is written or planed well I think it's for the sake of balance. demons or devils resembles pain,terror,hatred and so on and so fort ahm negative things. if there is no evening how can we sleep or rest?if there is no darkness well we might not be needing flashlights anymore right?if theres pain there is happiness, and if there is "yang" theres a "yin". .uhm no offense but i suggest you should read the bible sometimes or if you only have time because its the only thing in this world that will give you the answers you seek. and oh by the way the bible is the word of god just in case you don't know and the word is not reading but listening. .. .=]
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
27 Jul 10
I've actually read the Bible, thanks. And probably more thoroughly than those that profess to be highly religious.
But I'm really quite curious as to how folks would answer my question - the emphasis being placed on People rather than a book.
Personally, I don't think contrast is required to know an extreme at all. Any newborn baby can be quite happy without ever having known sadness. Babies can also feel pleasure without ever having experienced pain. We learn the extremes, it is true, but contrast is not required for us to know what is good. And I don't know about you, but I can sleep during the day. And folks in Alaska, for example, are so far north that the sun doesn't set for months at a time, and then it doesn't rise for months at a time, and the people still have regular sleep patterns.
I do thank you very much for your views however! :-)
@zhaopao13 (45)
• Philippines
26 Jul 10
That's is a very good question and I'm sure that only God can give you the right answer for that one. But if you ask me, maybe God already forgive Satan it's just that Satan wants to be like God that's why he wants to stay in Hell and tempt a lot of people to create an evil army.
Or Satan maybe never bothered to ask forgiveness to God that's why he stays in Hell forever.
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
27 Jul 10
Yeah, it's a mystery alright, but that's why I asked! :-) Thanks!
@skydeng (6)
• China
26 Jul 10
I think that the god is not strongger than the Satan.And The Satan is hard to be persuaded.please image the scene that when somebody want to kill you and he don't listen to you and he always want to think how to kill you fastly.would you continue to persuade him.
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
27 Jul 10
Yeah, that would be a hard pill to swallow! But that's just me. If God is not stronger than Satan, then I don't think we'd be talking about the Judeo-Christian Tradition anymore. But thanks for your thoughts! :-)
@meissen0212 (67)
• Philippines
26 Jul 10
I speak for my FAITH in God. I can't speak much of these issues about Satan because it makes no sense at all talking about ill-negative things around us. Instead, let our faith grow and develop in God's divine plan for us. Who we are to question HIM??? we are only one of the product of HIS creations.
@GDTimothy (446)
• United States
27 Jul 10
But wouldn't it be a positive thing for God to forgive Satan?
